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Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Taking the turbo plunge!
« on: January 27, 2015, 11:59:24 PM »
I'm shining up this motor...








And stuffing it in here!



I've done a ton of motor swaps, but this will be the first turbo. The motor has been put in a courier truck, and run, before pulled. Married to a t5. I have questions about some clearances. Will my hood close? How about heater motor and battery? I'm familiar with most trans. issues I will encounter, I think. And of course I will be looking to max out the hp on this setup, but let's get her in there first. How about some often overlooked issues? I understand this is a good motor to learn the art of the turbo, without to much financial hardship. Please and thank you!
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline dianne

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2015, 07:19:38 AM »
I think you should rip that turbo stuff off and send it to me so you can have a nice EFI ;-)  LOL

Pictures also as you do it!!! :D
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2015, 10:33:12 AM »
I think you should rip that turbo stuff off and send it to me so you can have a nice EFI ;-)  LOL

Pictures also as you do it!!! :D

I'm so bad about the picture thing. I'm lucky to get a before and after. I just don't think to stop and take pics. I'll try though. Without the turbo, I wouldn't even want the efi.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2015, 02:53:51 PM »
The 74 and up cars, which you obviously have are a lot easier. Rack clearances, motor mounts and radiator size options are not problems you will encounter.

  There is the battery tray issue. My 73 was badly rusted so I just put in a new panel that was advantageous to a turbo. Options are the trunk or the drivers front (move the washer tank). Be aware of the alternator or other accessories on that side if you use the battery in the front.

 There is a bolt (stud) issue on the outer exhaust where it turns 90 degrees downward. Shorten the stud as much as reasonable and possibly drill a hole to facilitate tightening. From there I used the stock T/C downpipe and had some clearance issues with the frame rail. Slightly flattening the out edge fixed that.

I have the 87-88 intercooler in my '73 and other than the scoop to feed the intercooler the hood closes without issue - BARELY and I do mean BARELY.  Your engine has the taller center section of the valve cover and that might raise the air plumbing..

I used the fan motor from an MG (reverse the polarity) and have sufficient exhaust clearance. Some opt for the A/C model that puts the motor in the interior.

The T-5 has clearance issues (if you use the bell crank) with the cable and the crossmember. A small offsetting plate fixes that. The drive shaft is dependent upon the rearend used.  I went from a /C-4/6.75" rear to a T-5/ 8" rear and the shaft swapped right over.

Mounting the fuel pump, return lines, harness etc. you just sort as you go.

I did a two part write-up on my '73 wagon swap using a stock '88 T/C engine - T-5.  You might glean something from it.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11908.msg76893#msg76893  http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11909.msg76894#msg76894

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2015, 10:06:47 PM »
The 74 and up cars, which you obviously have are a lot easier. Rack clearances, motor mounts and radiator size options are not problems you will encounter.

  There is the battery tray issue. My 73 was badly rusted so I just put in a new panel that was advantageous to a turbo. Options are the trunk or the drivers front (move the washer tank). Be aware of the alternator or other accessories on that side if you use the battery in the front.

 There is a bolt (stud) issue on the outer exhaust where it turns 90 degrees downward. Shorten the stud as much as reasonable and possibly drill a hole to facilitate tightening. From there I used the stock T/C downpipe and had some clearance issues with the frame rail. Slightly flattening the out edge fixed that.

I have the 87-88 intercooler in my '73 and other than the scoop to feed the intercooler the hood closes without issue - BARELY and I do mean BARELY.  Your engine has the taller center section of the valve cover and that might raise the air plumbing..

I used the fan motor from an MG (reverse the polarity) and have sufficient exhaust clearance. Some opt for the A/C model that puts the motor in the interior.

The T-5 has clearance issues (if you use the bell crank) with the cable and the crossmember. A small offsetting plate fixes that. The drive shaft is dependent upon the rearend used.  I went from a /C-4/6.75" rear to a T-5/ 8" rear and the shaft swapped right over.

Mounting the fuel pump, return lines, harness etc. you just sort as you go.

I did a two part write-up on my '73 wagon swap using a stock '88 T/C engine - T-5.  You might glean something from it.
http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11908.msg76893#msg76893  http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=11909.msg76894#msg76894

That's just the type of stuff I'm looking for. Thank you!
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline dianne

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2015, 06:57:29 AM »
Ummm, so mine is going to have issues?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2015, 12:54:48 PM »
Dianne,
 Putting a 2.3 (Turbo) in a '71-'73 car is like driving a bus through a narrow ally. The problems that the '71-73 cars have are:

1. The existing motor mounts need to be cut out and the 2.3 mount need to be welded in.  The tricky part is the pan clearance at the rack and intake plumbing at the top with the hood (on turbo and I assume NA injected cars).  There is about 3/16" clearance at the top and bottom. I have the lowered center section valve cover/intake system and I still filed the top of the throttle body as much as I dare to get the 3/16" clearance. SO..., before the motor mounts get welded in you have to be dead sure about their placement.  I had my engine in/out 7 times before I was willing to commit.  I see you have a '73 like I have. This car has a one year only steering rack where the pinion housing is rather bulbous.  I both hammered the oil pan and filed the pinion housing for clearance (do at your own risk).

2. Ideally you will run a larger than the stock 17" radiator.  To get the Pinto 20" radiator to fit you need to widen the opening. There are likely other options, but you should enlarge the opening for full air flow, not just put in a larger radiator with restricted air flow. Related is the fact that the '71-'73 cars have a shorter engine bay and clearance between the water pump nose and the radiator is about 3/8". I opted to run a "pusher" fan from the front.

Otherwise the other alterations mentioned are needed for all Pinto's.

Offline Pintosopher

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2015, 01:16:51 PM »
Dianne,
 Putting a 2.3 (Turbo) in a '71-'73 car is like driving a bus through a narrow ally. The problems that the '71-73 cars have are:

1. The existing motor mounts need to be cut out and the 2.3 mount need to be welded in.  The tricky part is the pan clearance at the rack and intake plumbing at the top with the hood (on turbo and I assume NA injected cars).  There is about 3/16" clearance at the top and bottom. I have the lowered center section valve cover/intake system and I still filed the top of the throttle body as much as I dare to get the 3/16" clearance. SO..., before the motor mounts get welded in you have to be dead sure about their placement.  I had my engine in/out 7 times before I was willing to commit.  I see you have a '73 like I have. This car has a one year only steering rack where the pinion housing is rather bulbous.  I both hammered the oil pan and filed the pinion housing for clearance (do at your own risk).

2. Ideally you will run a larger than the stock 17" radiator.  To get the Pinto 20" radiator to fit you need to widen the opening. There are likely other options, but you should enlarge the opening for full air flow, not just put in a larger radiator with restricted air flow. Related is the fact that the '71-'73 cars have a shorter engine bay and clearance between the water pump nose and the radiator is about 3/8". I opted to run a "pusher" fan from the front.

Otherwise the other alterations mentioned are needed for all Pinto's.
Hmm, all reasons why I want to stay with a 2.0L EAO or Cossie YBG . I had installed a 4 core radiator, and a Pusher fan in front of the Rad, my competition accused me of turning on the fan to increase my speed and lower my times while racing ;D  Never overheated in Sacto Summers at autocross with fixed fan on W/ Pump removed..
 If you buy the goodies From Burton in UK, you can install a 2.3L Duratec from a Focus and have easy 150Hp with little mods and great Open hood Penache'

 Lots of options, all it takes is money and sweat! 8)
Yes, it is possible to study and become a master of Pintosophy.. Not a religion , nothing less than a life quest for non conformity and rational thought. What Horse did you ride in on?

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Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2015, 01:58:53 PM »
I guess I can count myself lucky to have the 76. Even though I lust for an early model! On the subject of the t5 install, is the shifter offset consistent enough that someone could have a template or just just a few measurements they can share with me? Or is it a try and see type scenario? And which way is going to be easier, given I don't have spiffy car lift, dropping the motor/tranny married, or individually?
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2015, 02:32:49 PM »
If a picture is worth a thousand words hopefully this will help. Thought I had a picture of the opening, but I don't.  Anyway, the tunnel just needs to be cut forward about 3".  The cover I used is from the Turbo Coupe, just hammered to fit. It covered the whole opening.

  I shortened  the shifter (it is too high) by cutting and welding it and then made the plate to move it rearward (it is too far forward). I'm 6ft. and prefer the seat back and leaned.   Getting the shifter right is tricky. The angles need to be just right otherwise the motion becomes awkward. I could still use it back 2"-3" ideally. But, where it is..., is the compromise one must accept.  I tried angling it by pivoting on the lower bolt, but that is when the awkwardness started.

It was about 6 years ago and I don't recall the install method. But, I'm not an engine/Trans as one piece kind of guy.  So I know it wasn't that. Which went first engine or trans I don't exactly recall.  With the tight fitting I'm guessing I put the trans to the (dangling) motor before I welded the motor mount in.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2015, 10:28:02 PM »
Perfect, thanks. I think I'll set the turbo motor on to the trans that's in the car to get it settled in, then swap out the old trans for the t5 afterwards. Less to guess that way.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2015, 08:58:35 PM »
I had decided to polish up the cast valve cover and put it on a motor that is actually fuel injected and turbo. I thought I'd just blast the paint off and get polishing. I was wrong, What the hell is that paint made of?! I started with soda... not even a chip. So I prepped for some hard media... nothing. I've blasted through powder coating and plastic coating, but damn! It won't run right if the valve cover isn't shiny!
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2015, 08:09:20 AM »
go get a can of aircraft aluminum  stripper at the local parts store..10 bucks
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2015, 12:25:51 PM »
Hmmm... never tried that stuff. And it's at auto parts stores?
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2015, 01:01:38 PM »
So rather than start butchering my factory turbo setup, that goes over the head and will cause hood clearance problems, I'm looking in to other options I've seen in pics that route the pluming forward through the core support, through an intercooler, and back through the other side of the core support. I feel this design is just cleaner looking and less of a pain in the posterior.

Now this all makes me a little nervous as I'm new to the turbo world. I went with this motor because it was touted as a good way to get one going without having to blow through a few blocks learning. Can I do this type of setup, and still not get in over my head with new tuning issues? I feel I have a good grasp on this factory efi/turbo, but it's pretty basic. Does this change everything tuning-wise? Or just some extra plumbing to get around the motor,with maybe some minor tuning changes. Not trying to go bigger... yet... just clean and simple.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline dianne

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2015, 01:10:11 PM »
Pinto_one has some great advise. I'm glad I'm doing the EFI to be honest, but kind of wish I was doing the turbo. I am looking forward to your project to be honest!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2015, 01:16:01 PM »
Me too. I haven't done something so out of my realm, in a long time, as far as motors go.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2015, 02:19:51 PM »
You're going to have hood clearance problems regardless of how you change the intercooler location or plumbing because it's the intake manifold/TB/TB linkage that hits the hood. The only way around that is to use a "rotated" short upper intake that faces forward and change the plumbing. The rotated upper will also require either eliminating the EGR tube or fabricating a new one.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
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Offline Rebolting73

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2015, 03:39:53 PM »
I have often pondered the hood clearance issue.  What if you just popped in the whole running turbo and cut a hillbilly hatch in the  hood and covered it with a scoop?  If you had a donor hood, you could play the turbo game before getting in too deep.  Going turbo is like the children's' song about the old woman that swallowed a fly...  Running a fuel injected 2.3 and T5 is such a huge upgrade that it really raises questions about running a turbo.  I wanted a turbo Pinto and was 100% in from the start, but it really took a ton of extra work to stuff it under the hood.  I had to do all the stuff that 65Shelby just said and plumb my intercooler down and around the front.  If you decided the turbo was not worth all the extra headache to get under a hood, you still have EEC IV, fuel injection and an overdrive transmission.

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2015, 06:20:46 PM »
I had mine swapped and running in a couple weekends and cost less than 500 bucks... engine trans and harness from a donor car...and still made money back on the turbocoupe carcass....
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2015, 07:27:26 PM »
Depending upon your configuration the hood isn't a complete problem.  I got the whole factory '88 T/C engine under the stock '73 hood save for the (single) T/C scoop I used to duct air to the intercooler.  The turbo Datsun 280Z scoop is an option to consider if you want the air ducted directly over the intercooler.

 It is the upper / front of the throttle body and the main vacuum port (painted black) that are the contact areas that I filed. At the front bolt I filed it nearly to the threads!  and, on the vacuum port I actually filed it too far and had to solder up the hole. In the picture you can see where I had glued foam (yellowish area), but I think it only added to picking up vibration.  Everything is VERY tight but if you take your time it is doable.






Offline dianne

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2015, 07:42:58 PM »
WOW that is soooo cool!!!!
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Offline Rebolting73

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2015, 10:44:33 PM »
Awesome scoop !  Amazing you got all that in so clean.  I have a clocked and chopped upper and after grinding the rack and pinion shoulder almost down to the strap and bumping the pan it barely cleared the hood.  Recently I had the engine out doing tranny work and popped in fresh motor mounts and the top of the throttle was gently rubbing.  A couple washers fixed it right up.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2015, 11:32:59 PM »
Has anyone ever tried to remove a little thickness from the lower intake and upper intake flanges, and either fabbing the one running into the compressor, compensating for the adjusted height... or removing the corresponding thickness from the compressor and tube flanges? There seems to be room between the valve cover and throttle body to come down some.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2015, 11:39:34 PM »
You might be able to buy 1/8" doing that, but I don't think that would be enough to solve the problem or be worth the effort.

I can't bring myself to cut a hole in the hood, so I am resigned to the (another) big job of doing something different for an upper intake/TB setup and rerouting the charge piping.

I mentioned a rotated short upper specifically because '87-88 upper intakes are about 3/4" shorter than the rest. That is why the valve cover has a recess in the middle. Mine is an '86 and thus a "tall" square intake.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2015, 11:49:02 PM »
I'm the same about the hood. I want to keep it looking like a plain old harmless pinto.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

Offline Pinturbo75

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2015, 08:02:31 AM »
i rotated my upper intake 90 and shortened it by 3/4 in the back side and 1 inch on the front side.... basically a small pie cut...it clears just fine.
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2015, 10:47:31 AM »
I wanted to retain the '88 T/C engine setup as stock as possible. So, I knew cutting the hood was going to have to be done.  My perspective is that at a Pick A Part 50% off sale I can get a hood for $20. My problem is I keep looking for one that it already white. And as I do the Pinto's are found less and less.

Some have questioned if the single scoop is enough given the T/C had two.  All I can say is if you look at the T/C ducting, and the way the seal gets wavy and leaks my tight sealing single is likely equal to a regular, leaky T/C dual.  While far from ideal, I do believe it is functional - enough.  I'm not out for all possible HP. I was just looking to make the Pinto more functional to get down the road.  You know, you need that kind of power when you see you are about to be rear-ended and need to pull away fast!  LOL

Offline 76hotrodpinto

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #28 on: February 09, 2015, 11:26:57 AM »
I wanted to retain the '88 T/C engine setup as stock as possible. So, I knew cutting the hood was going to have to be done.  My perspective is that at a Pick A Part 50% off sale I can get a hood for $20. My problem is I keep looking for one that it already white. And as I do the Pinto's are found less and less.

Some have questioned if the single scoop is enough given the T/C had two.  All I can say is if you look at the T/C ducting, and the way the seal gets wavy and leaks my tight sealing single is likely equal to a regular, leaky T/C dual.  While far from ideal, I do believe it is functional - enough.  I'm not out for all possible HP. I was just looking to make the Pinto more functional to get down the road.  You know, you need that kind of power when you see you are about to be rear-ended and need to pull away fast!  LOL


Ahhh, it's too early to laugh that hard.

My pinto actually came with a big ugly air cleaner sticking through the hood. I put a low profile air cleaner on it and just screwed a piece of sheet metal over the hole. It has hood pins too, blech! So chopping that one up would be fine, but it's not the look I want. Haven't found a decent replacement for it yet, but I'm hopeful about one I'm going to check out when the deluge ceases.
1976 half hatch 2.3 turbo w/t5.

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Re: Taking the turbo plunge!
« Reply #29 on: February 09, 2015, 08:16:41 PM »
Some have questioned if the single scoop is enough given the T/C had two.  All I can say is if you look at the T/C ducting, and the way the seal gets wavy and leaks my tight sealing single is likely equal to a regular, leaky T/C dual.  While far from ideal, I do believe it is functional - enough.  I'm not out for all possible HP. I was just looking to make the Pinto more functional to get down the road.

The Mustang SVOs only had one scoop. On top of that, is was position on the hood such that above 50-60mph it would start pulling hot air out of the engine bay and through the intercooler..a nd the red-hot turbo parts are right below that. At least that's what the legend states.

Quote
You know, you need that kind of power when you see you are about to be rear-ended and need to pull away fast!  LOL

That's what I tell people at work; I made a Pinto fast so it won't get hit from behind.  ;D
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.