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Author Topic: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra  (Read 6101 times)

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Offline Pintopower

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Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« on: May 29, 2015, 12:46:19 PM »
Hey guys, I am assembling my 2.3 turbo and wanted to install the Ranger roller cam into it. I am set on the Ranger cam as I like stock parts on my cars. I expect my engines to run without issue for at least a quarter million miles. I have better things to do than mess with stupidity on my cars.


The plan:
1. A stock turbo set up with the only difference being the cam. The whole motor has been balanced to zero grams. I don't know if this matters but the inter cooler will be moved to the front of the car in the massive cavity behind the Pangra's front bumper, in front of the massive AC condenser.
2. The AC system going on this car is much more important than the turbo as I don't care at all about speed and power but care massively about my comfort. 4 of my Pinto's have modern car competitive AC which makes my wife a very happy person. The only reason for the turbo setup is that it is a genuine Pangra with the only 2.3 ever installed in one.
3. The other thing that will alter the performance is the removal of the serpentine belt in favor of the v-belts to give an authentic Ak Miller appearance.
4. The EFI should completely remain the same.


So the issue is, what year ranger is the most desirable? Is there a kit that can be purchased? Are these all scrapyard parts? Your help is infinitely appreciated.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 02:56:05 PM »
I put the Ranger Roller in my '88 Turbo engine. From what I understand the end result of the cams are all the same lift/duration wise. However there is a change (sorry, don't know they exact year) and you have to match the cam/rockers etc. to your head.  I think it is about pre 93-94 you would be looking for. Because they are roller the wear issue is minimal.

 In my case I sourced the parts from a self wrecking yard (Pick Your Part) in So. Cal.. They have monthly 50% off sales and I got the cam and the roller rockers "out the door" for right about $25. If your profile is correct you are in the lower bay area and have Pick N Pull's in your area.  They list cams in the $29-$34 range ( their parts list is somewhat confusing).  Rocker arms are $5 ea. X8 = $40. So, I'd think it is about $75 OTD unless they have sales days.  For comparison Pick Your Part Charges $25 for the cam with a $2 core and rocker arms are $2 each. So, their regular price is $43 and as I stated about $23 on their 50% off days.

 I haven't looked in a while, but I recall seeing pulled Ranger Roller cams/rockers going for about $100 on Ebay.  My recollection was that getting the cam to slide out over radiator area (mine came out of a Mustang) was difficult. So, a pulled cam setup has its appeal.

Hope this helps and maybe someone can give better advice about the year cut-off for the proper cam/rockers.  Otherwise it is a pretty simple swap.


Offline Bigtimmay

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2015, 04:40:58 PM »
89-96 rangers but id just stick with the earlier ones cause later have the wrong roller followers I got mine out of a 90 ranger also mustang 91-93 have them too. Basically your just looking for a dual plug (8 spark plug) 2.3.
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Offline Rebolting73

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2015, 07:36:41 PM »
Here what an 89 Ranger looks like.  I lifted the head to get the cam over the radiator frame at Pick-n-Pull. Runs fine.

Offline Pintopower

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2015, 10:45:28 AM »
Wow awesome guys! I will go pluck one from the scrap yard. This information was very helpful.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2015, 10:47:49 PM »
The difference in roller followers happened when Ford switched from 11/32" valve stems to 8mm, which I think happened for the '95 model year.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 12:01:42 PM »
And then there is that whole discussion about using the newer rocker arms with an older head/cam.  One of these days I'm going to grab a newer rocker at Pick a Part (they are only $1 on sale days), grind the valve slot and see for myself exactly what the end result is. Some argue the "theory" while others say it can't be done. I don't know that either has convinced me.

Offline Pintocrazed

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 12:13:18 PM »
I'VE READ ABOUT THIS BACK WHEN I THOUGHT I WAS GONNA GET A PINTO WITH A 2.3 AND A FEW SAID YOU JUST OPEN THE NEWER ROCKER A BIT TO FIT AND THEY WORKED GREAT

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 01:24:23 PM »
I have a mill to use so the process is fairly trivial(if I wanted to do it); I just don't know if the rockers are case-hardened or through-hardened.

I already have an early Ranger roller cam, but have been dragging my feet on the install because it's not a performance cam and I might as well pop the head off and port everything if I'm that far in....and install bigger injectors...an d the intercooler... .and bigger turbo....and down the slippery slope I go.  :o
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 05:27:24 PM »
The thing I find interesting is that those who say it works never have any proof that it does. Like in, they never tried it. And those who say it doesn't work (surprise) don't show any proof that it doesn't. Like in, they never tried it.  From what I can distill the later model rockers need to have about .060 (total) or .030 each side removed from the rocker guide (others have suggested turning the upper valve stem instead).

 If one is articulate with a Dremel and a cut-off disc that shouldn't be too difficult. And remember, you are only cutting the sides so a large portion of the valve tip to rocker contact area (I'll guess at least 80%) will still be  hardened. I doubt the side forces on the guides are much to be concerned about.  I'd say this is at least feasible for trying.

The only way to increase the ratio is to move the roller towards the lifter (assuming it is already closer to the valve). I'd think that requires the roller be smaller to compensate. And this would seem to delay (intake)/advance (exhaust) valve events thus decreasing overlap ( ??? input from others appreciated). If the roller (in stock form) sat directly over the center of the cam then altering its relationship in either direction would decrease lift.  However, from what I can see on a slider head/cam it appears the contact point is closer to the valve.

  Should this all be feasible cam characteristic s could also be altered further by running a combination of new and older rockers.

Anyway, I'm not trying to claim this works. I'm only trying to look the process through its steps and see it on paper.

Offline Bigtimmay

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 09:41:30 PM »
I installed my ranger cam due to the fact my slider was so wore out the followers could just slide out with very little effort.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

Offline Srt

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2015, 01:24:12 AM »
For what it's worth. I used to run a pinto with a turbo & I never used anything other than a stone cold stock Ford cam.
My car was a 2.0 though.
It never stopped me from going fast . was reliable & cheap.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline dick1172762

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2015, 10:20:11 AM »
Why not just turn down the diameter of the valve stem to fit the late rocker arms. BUT the members of the 4m.net mini stock web site all say the ratios are the same on early verse late rocker arms.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2015, 11:41:39 AM »
Why not just turn down the diameter of the valve stem to fit the late rocker arms. BUT the members of the 4m.net mini stock web site all say the ratios are the same on early verse late rocker arms.

And that brings me back to what I said above. They all "SAY" these things, but no one is showing the two different rockers with the cam at full lift.  It stands to reason that IF the newer cam has a lesser lift at the cam (and it is stated as such) then to get a similar overall lift (which some say is the end result) the rocker ratio would have to be different. And if the newer rocker can function either with a widened slot or a narrower valve tip then the concept is at least feasible to try. The end results may not be desirable (see my advance/retard comment above) but until tested we don't know.

Regarding my concept of widening the slot over turning the valve stem; I am approaching the concept as an economical way of potentially adding power. I can pick up a full set of roller rockers for $16 at a Pick Your Part 50% off sale. The concept of widening the slots over turning the valves does not require pulling the head. The cost of a 1035 head gasket and TTY bolts alone cost roughly $120 - just to pull the head! So, it is not a cheap proposition, especially when your doing it for $16 rockers.  And, yes I realize there is a cheaper gasket, but you are still in the $60 range going that less desired route.  Also, one is probably more incline to have a Dremel with a cut off disc to widen slots than a lathe to turn the valve stem.

Anyway, as I stated above I'm only looking to the feasibility of the concept (in an economical way).  At this point I think the alterations to overlap might be more of a concern than any of the other issues I've read.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2015, 01:28:36 PM »
The 8993 head gasket works fine for stock turbo applications. Some have made 10-second power them and they are only $12. As for head bolts, if you have the old 12pt ones, then reuse them instead of buying overpriced one-time-use TTA bolts.

I guess to boil down this thread:

Any Ranger/B2300/B2500 roller cam will work.

You need pre-1995 roller followers for the 11/32" valves in a turbo head.

The parts may still be available new, but they'll be expensive. I got my used Ranger cam and followers for $45 OTD. Most bundled "kits" from junkyard pulls will be about $120.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Art
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Offline Wittsend

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2015, 10:04:44 PM »
Interesting read.. :)

http://www.4m.net/archive/index.php/t-318610.html

And all part of the inconclusive, showing no proof arguments that BOTH sides are making.  I guess the board is living up to its title "4m.net - The Most Opinionated Racing Message Board In The Universe." LOL  There is one post I can agree with (in bold):
"Here are 2 things that might cause a problem. ... the way you increase the ratio is to move the roller closer to the lash adjuster. I believe this will cause the intake to open later and the exhaust to open earlier if you use a cam made for 1.64 followers. How much it will affect the cam timing and performance I don't know."  I thank him for his un-opinionated honesty.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2015, 10:45:16 PM »
Well, guess there's only one way to set the record straight, "EXPERIMENT" and document it.. :D
Art
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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2015, 08:43:25 AM »
This issue recently came up (again) on turboford.org and I was reminded of this thread. One of the members had done that experiment back in 2005 and the conclusions were:

1.) All the roller followers have the same ratio. Stamped or cast, early or late, doesn't matter.

2.) Roller followers have a ratio of 1.85:1.

3.) The Ranger's smaller lobes coupled with higher ratio followers makes the actual valve timing and lift events indistinguisha ble from a factory turbo slider cam....like within 0.010" and 2.

http://forum.turboford.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=000019
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
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Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2015, 10:09:59 AM »
Guess that settles it then. :D
Art
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Offline Wittsend

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2015, 02:17:18 PM »
Ummm..., maybe not. If the later roller cam has a smaller lift (.2163) than the early roller cam lift (.2381) AND the same roller rocker ratio (stamped or cast) as many have stated how can the end result lift be the same???

Based on the fact that many are saying the end lift result is the same regardless the of early or late cams with their associated rockers then:

1. If the early/late cam lift is different then the early and late roller rockers HAVE TO HAVE different ratios.

2. If the early/late cam lifts are the same then there CAN'T be different roller rocker ratios.

Unfortunately information available states that cam lift and roller rocker ratios are different. Reliable information?  Who knows? I've seem people argue that the total lift on the two roller setups are the same. And they argue that the rocker ratios are the same on the early and late roller rockers. Yet, they never dispute that the cam lift is different.


So, until I see pictures (or video) of a stock early roller setup and a stock late roller setup really showing the same total lift I'm skeptical of the "end result is the same" statements.

And until I see the early and late cams really having different CAM lifts I'll be skeptical.

And until I see the same, or different lifts with the early and later roller rockers on the SAME roller cam I'll be skeptical of roller rocker ratios.

To me a lot of people are talking - nobody is yet proving.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2015, 02:39:48 PM »
Hmmm, good point..
Art
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Offline dick1172762

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2016, 02:24:15 PM »
Interesting read.. :)

http://www.4m.net/archive/index.php/t-318610.html
This is quoted straight out of the Ford shop manual. Word for word.
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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2016, 10:49:13 PM »
What is? The whole thread?

I hate to throw more fuel on an old fire, but I have seen plenty of big fat errors in factory service manuals. Honda published several in the '90s (and never changed them AFAIK) that show completely incorrect diagrams of how an engine's lubrication system works.
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Offline pinto_one

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Re: Ranger Cam for a 87 Turbo Coupe Engine for my '74 Pangra
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2016, 11:34:51 AM »
I checked on the roller cams when collecting parts for my next project , came across a few things on the cams and roller arms ,  the site ranger station and a few others on the net , a few roller cams were diffrent and the roller arms were also , first sliders were 1.50 to one but do not care about those , first gen rollers were 1,64 , got those , last gen was 1.84 or 1.86 , but you have to widen the rails for the valve stem .061 for them to work on the older engines , got those also along with the cam, also got a bridge port to mill to fit , the cam i have is out of a ranger 2.3 along with the duel plug head , the other is out of a LRG425 industral  (2.5 engine) which i got for the crank , NOT looking for high RPM horsepower , rather this engine will never see over 2700 RPM ever , unless I am in a dive , its going into a home built aircraft that was designed around 1929 using a for model A engine , A Pietenpol , I am looking for low speed torque , anything i get as long as it is over 50 HP a 2700 RPM will work fine , duel plugs like an aircraft , same weight a the old model A , plus side is this engine engine is very reliable , cheep and easy to take care of , I race them back in the late 70,s and you could not destroy it unless you drained the oil and water from it or hit a tree at sub light speed , figure in six months I will have it on a test stand to find out what combo works , advanced cam timing I will also try , got a adjustable cam sprocket , also the holes in the roller cam that lube the rollers are smaller which will help oil pressure , will post photos when up and running ,
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