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Author Topic: A 1972 turbo swap adventure  (Read 95823 times)

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Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2014, 05:50:45 PM »
OK, here are the two firewall pictures where I went through the firewall.  As I said I used the '88 harness and took the, "what do I have to remove approach." In retrospect I should have probably taken the, "what do I need to keep approach."  Both the rubber grommets are factory. Even after I sifted though the ride control, A/C etc., etc., I had about 20 wire I was unsure of. I have since deleted most - after I got it running right.

Regardless it doesn't stay too pretty using all the factory stuff.  I guess it was just my fear of removing something I would need to be put back - but not being sure what "it" was.



Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2014, 06:22:49 PM »
Thanks for the photos.  8) Yours looks almost like a factory install. I think I have it a little bit easier since my '86 harness only has one grommet. Most of the unused wires can also be reused or allocated  for extra fun EFI features like boost control, fan control, water injection, 2nd O2 sensor, flex fuel sensor, etc.

I just spent a bunch more money on parts. Driveshaft, u-joints, gaskets, bearings, oil, and I forget what else for now.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 72pair

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2014, 07:59:24 PM »
Looks like you're well on your way. Have you found mounts? I did scare up a set of block and frame mounts, if you're still interested in a swap. It'll be a cross country ship, but they should fit in a flat rate box.
72 sedan 2.0, c-4 beater now hot 2.0, 4-speed
72 sedan 2.3, t-5, 8" running project
80 Bobcat hatchback 2.3, 4-spd, 97K

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2014, 11:12:48 PM »
I never did get any 2.3 mounts. I'll send you a PM shortly.

On the build front, I got new brushes in the 3G alternator and put a 3/8-16 Heli Coil in the adjuster ear. It's all back together and now I have to massage the pulley so it doesn't rub on the case and so there is enough shaft thread for the nut, then make sure alignment is still good.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2014, 01:22:15 AM »
Small update: some uninteresting gaskets, seals, and bearings came yesterday for the rear end. The drive shaft came in this afternoon.





It's wider, so hopefully that makes up for being shorter. :ob [/innuendo]

Now I'm waiting for a pair of combination u-joints in the mail.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2014, 10:50:32 AM »
What is your replacement shaft from?  I went from a C-4 with a 6-3/4" to a T-5 with a 8" and was able to use the same driveshaft.  Since your car was originally a 4 speed perhaps that necessitates the change?  Is it the yoke on the differential that require the combination U-Joints?

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2014, 03:03:31 PM »
A lot of the info I have found is conflicting. I have seen reports that just an 8" swap requires a shorter drive shaft and I know a T5 is 1.375in longer than a 4-speed. I had to go on what people said about a 45.5in being right for a 2.3/T5/8in in a Pinto.

It also took a lot of digging to find out that '79-93 V8 and '94-04 V6 Mustangs all use 45.5in long drive shafts with joint size depending on year and engine.

Mine was obscurely labeled as being from (and only cross-referenced to) a 2000-2001 Mustang V6 five speed, so I took a gamble and bought it. Fortunately it turned out to be 45.5in as well. $32 shipped plus $20 in u-joints ≈ $50 saved over having the original shortened.

It uses 1330 universals and both yokes are 1310, hence the combination joints.

Curious tidbit: the 2001 driveshaft ends still have a 1963 Ford engineering number.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2014, 04:11:17 PM »
Got ya. Yes, I recall my C-4, 6-3/4" driveshaft being 45.5" so it worked without changes.  I also recall someone stating an Aerostar aluminum driveshaft being 45.5".

  I've got a '64 Studebaker Daytona with a 350 Chevy small block and a 700R4. When I did the transmission swap I had to crawl under a few cars, but a '78 Buick Skylark 4 Dr. did the job and its 350 (trans) input shaft fit my 700R4.  The "detective work" can be fun at times. Sure saves cash.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2014, 05:33:38 PM »
Only the AWD '96-97(?) Aerostar rear drive shafts were aluminum and 45.5". There were lots of Aerostars at the JY when I went, but all of them were 2WD or I would have pulled one. More of that detective work at work...

The "detective work" can be fun at times. Sure saves cash.

And something just might get learned in the process.  :o 8)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 72pair

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2014, 09:36:14 PM »
Will be interested in how this all shakes out. IIRC, I put the 2.3 and 4 speed in my 72 and used the original driveshaft. I later installed the MII 8 inch and needed to shorten the shaft one inch. Could probably have jammed it in there but wanted some play. Still later added the t-5 and needed more clearance so went looking for a shorter shaft. The 45.5 number seems familiar so hopefully that  works for you. Wish that car wasnt buried in the back of a buddy's garage so I could measure it. I agree reading posts here you get a lot of conflicting info at times. 
72 sedan 2.0, c-4 beater now hot 2.0, 4-speed
72 sedan 2.3, t-5, 8" running project
80 Bobcat hatchback 2.3, 4-spd, 97K

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2014, 11:27:39 PM »
Thanks to 72pair, I'll know if the DS is workable much sooner with the help of these:


If no one has ever seen 2.0 mounts removed with anything other than a chisel and BFH, here are some intact:


In other news, I put the 3G on:


3G swaps are easy if the engine already has a serpentine belt, but things are a little more complicated with v-belts. A standard dual belt pulley like mine will rub on the 3G case. A simple fix is to put the original 1G 0.060" washer behind the pulley, but that doesn't fix the minimal thread engagement for the nut.

In order to fix all of that without changing belt alignment, I put the pulley in a lathe and faced about 0.060" off the back(but not off of the shoulder that butts against the bearing) and made the front counterbore about 0.080" deeper.

I also replaced the pinion seal in the MII 8" rear. Hopefully I got preload back in the right ballpark...
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #41 on: August 20, 2014, 12:16:35 PM »
TL;DR alert. I have been doing a job that keeps me away from the car for days at a time, so not much is getting done as of late. Here's a week of catchup:

I replaced an axle seal and got into the middle of replacing a damaged wheel stud when I found out that I bought the wrong stud. >:( Got the right one now, but haven't installed it yet. As an aside, I suggest avoiding Centric/C-Tek brand seals. More Chinese junk.

Speaking of Chinese junk, I also got my combo u-joints. They are Precision brand, same as what O'Reilly's carries, but I got them for half price. Turns out one of them had nicks on two journals that made it spin rough. Not worth sending it back, so I polished them out. Also....the joints have "USA" cast into the spider, but say "made in China" on the box. >:(

I also replaced the pinion seal in the MII 8" rear (edit 8/20/2014: using a good Timken seal). Hopefully I got preload back in the right ballpark...

My driving desire to do everything the right way with this car forced me to buy a little 0-60in/lb beam torque wrench specifically to check the pinion preload. At least I can use it on my bicycles too. It says the preload is still way below spec for used bearings, so I don't have to replace the crush sleeve after all, just keep tightening and checking until it's right. :D

Conclusion: reassembling the pinion nose/yoke/nut in original alignment without checking preload is lazy and unreliable.

My hokey seven-color Harbor Freight boost gauge came in yesterday. I only got it because the reviews are good and I thought having red/green/white backlight options would be handy. Problem is that the needle is red and the red LED setting makes it disappear. OTOH, the blue and aqua options make it fluoresce like a blacklight would. It's also extremely bright, so I'll have to figure something out to dim it.




As an FYI, this gauge requires a constant +12v power supply if you want it to remember an LED color setting other than the default green. It latches the setting when the selector button is pushed and killing power resets it. I'll check the standby current draw when I can and report back.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2014, 07:21:28 PM »
I'll have something worthwhile to report next time, I promise.

I checked current draw at standby and for each color with a Harbor Freight DVOM (got it free with the gauge) and the tired 9v battery in that last photo. Actual current draw at system voltage in a car will be higher.


Standby...3.5m A @ 8v
Green....17.0m A
Blue.....12.0m A
Red......23.5m A
Aqua.....23.8m A
Yellow...35.4m A
Purple...30.1m A
White....41.4m A


Standby is the one to worry about because that's what pulls on the battery when the car is parked.

Current goes upward with some colors because the LED has three silicon chips inside; red green, and blue. Various combinations are needed to make the other colors. White runs all three, so it creates the highest current draw.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2014, 05:45:48 AM »
Mmmm, that boost gauge wouldn't work for me, only goes to 30 lbs. lol... :o

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2014, 10:22:23 AM »
It actually only goes to 20psi, which is too low even for my stock turbo goals, but it was cheap.

Bourdon tube pressure gauges (at least industrial ones) are generally calibrated to be most accurate right in the middle of their range and have the most error at either end, so if you are going to be running ~30psi, you might consider a 60psi diesel pressure-only gauge if absolute accuracy is a consideration. Usually it's not critical in automotive applications though.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #45 on: September 03, 2014, 12:57:15 AM »
After wasting an hour looking the rubber engine mounts I bought months ago followed by a combined two hours looking for two 7/16-14 nuts to go on them, I got all the bracketry mocked onto the engine.

Now it's getting to the part I don't really like: replacing rusty sheet metal.



I was going to drop the engine in first to see how much space I needed to make for the turbo, but the battery area started disintegrating under a wire wheel, so it got moved ahead. The Thunderbird's fuel tank is an unlikely source for patch panels with compound bends.

What have you all with the early cars done with this brake line?


Haven't decided if I'm going to try bending it, replacing it, or rerouting it under the frame.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #46 on: September 03, 2014, 11:22:08 AM »
On my '73 the hard brake line runs under the uni-frame rail.

  I cut the whole panel back about 3/4" short of the firewall. Going forward I went to that lower triangular area. Where as the original metal bumps upward to seemingly clears the upper A-arm, I went concave to clear the boost control actuator (which even after that has very little clearance). I think it is a much better way than piecing specific areas of rust. Top to bottom I went from the frame rail to the top of the inner compartment sheet metal.

  Logically I think it just kind of dictates what can be done with ordinary tools unless you have all the proper sheet metal tools. Cardboard templates help a lot.  Oh, and the welded seam in the center..., it is Bondo-ed. My metal skills aren't that good.




Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2014, 09:15:29 PM »
I hate showing off my own welds, but I accomplished the major goal of getting the inner fender welding and fabrication done. Flux core on dirty iron-based paper does not make for pretty, so maybe the doo-doo weld beads will get tidied a bit. Or not.



Here's a cast elbow I'm been dragging around forever and an old Pace Setter air filter that has been around even longer. Turns out one end of the elbow is 2.75" like the compressor inlet and the other end is 5" like that air filter. Would be great if both end up fitting somewhere.

'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2014, 10:13:22 PM »
Looks good, better than if I would have done it, lol.. ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2014, 01:31:13 AM »
You're too kind toward my booger welds.

On a side note, that part of the inner fender is surprisingly rigid now. The 16ga sheet I did the lower half with is like armor plate compared to the original rusty cheese.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2014, 07:42:42 AM »
Nothing wrong with that, should last a lifetime now..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2014, 10:03:52 AM »
Here is a bottom side picture of how the '73 brake line was run. Interesting they would move it given the same engines were offered in '72 as '73.

The boost control actuator sure tucks closer to the engine on pre-87-88 engines.  Your sheet metal in that area must be 3" higher than mine.  Not sure if you are aware, but the rear outer bolt on the cast 90 degree elbow (where it connects to the exhaust pipe) has both interference issues and difficulty in tightening.  I think some just punch a hole big enough for a socket to fit through.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2014, 09:00:29 PM »
Mine is exactly opposite; the soft line comes up from the bottom and the hard line down from above through the inner fender. I think I got it all tweaked and moved out of the way of the mount now. I cleaned and prepped the frame rails for welding too.

The engine is hanging in the air, the rear main seal has been replaced, and the new flywheel and clutch installed. Dipstick is bolted down, sending units have been transferred from the 2.0 to the 2.3, and aftermarket ones installed for the funky '80s LED volts/water/oil gauge I got. Next task is to bolt the transmission on and start locating the mounts.


Yes, I know there's a Fram filter on there. It's going to be on there just long enough to catch all the assembly debis/rag lint/dog hair/etc and/or get caved-in during engine installation. ;)

Anyone notice something wrong with this picture?


I didn't until it was bolted onto the engine and the pressure plate was ready to go on. No dowels!

The old junk flywheel was still around, so I knocked the ring gear loose, tossed it up on the mill, cut from the back until I hit the pockets, and then knocked the dowels out.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2014, 08:17:41 PM »
It's hard-won progress, but progress nonetheless.





The mounts aren't welded yet, but at least that heavy beast is hanging in the bay now.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2014, 10:33:38 PM »
And harder-won:






Yeah, about that hood clearance...I thought I would be able to make some blocks to raise the back of the hood, but that's probably not going to work with a combination of the smallest Pinto engine bay and tallest 2.3T intake.


I spent a really long time lining up the mounts and finally jiggled the whole driveline into a spot where there is about a finger's width between the pand and rack, bellhousing bolts and firewall, and at least the starter isn't touching the rack,

Did you guys know that the 2.3 doesn't sit straight in a Pinto engine bay? I didn't, at least not before spending a few hours trying to get one to sit straight. :o
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2014, 08:58:56 AM »
Get a mid 90's ranger 2.3L starter and you'll have lots of clearance plus it'll turn over like the plugs are out. Cheap mini starter.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2014, 10:08:43 AM »
Thanks for the interchange source. :) I was thinking "this thing needs a mini starter" the whole time. You can see how grungy the original one is ( the one part I didn't clean) and it is original 1986, so a replacement is probably in the foreseeable future anyway.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #57 on: September 15, 2014, 02:06:04 AM »
Finally got to button a few things up.







Anyone familiar with the Turbo Coupe (and other models') enormous driveshaft yoke damper like this



might be interested to know that all that rubber and iron are just pressed on there. Under it all is a fairly standard yoke.



In my case, a 1310 one. I would have used the 1330 yoke that came with the drive shaft, but the rust pitting wouldn't clean up enough.

Now I have to track down some bulk high pressure fuel hose which is surprisingly hard to find in this godforsaken place.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2014, 12:56:58 AM »
I went back and looked and I guess it came from Jonson Machine. Whether they built it or just sold it, I don't know. Could be a C-Line.

I remembered someone asking and thought I would follow up with the information that it is a C-Line oil pan. I didn't notice the name stamped in it by the drain until crawling around the car with the sump in my face. ::)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2014, 10:40:48 PM »
Just a small, ear-splitting update:





It's just there long enough to keep exhaust from blowtorching that brake line and new metal where the battery was when I fire the engine and work out the preliminary kinks.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.