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Author Topic: A 1972 turbo swap adventure  (Read 89539 times)

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Offline pinto_one

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #240 on: August 30, 2017, 07:06:36 AM »
If you have Disk brakes up front you may not need an up grade , just need power brakes  , I have it on my pintos and works very well and wish i had them sooner , can lock them up very easy at highways speeds , so no problem , you just might have to install a brake booster ,I believe it can be done , the early pinto is very light , mine is close to being 800 lbs heaver , Auto , A/C , power everything along with a V-6 , My wheels are 15 X 7 4 lug , run a 205/60/15 , everything clears up front , as for the 8" rear end I have a rear housing with axles if you want them , got to pick then up here or anyone that headed your way can , (Free)  and Dutch Wagon I have a set of stock pinto mag wheels if you can get your friend to carry them over to you , stock 13'  had to got to the 15,s because the 13inch tires like 195/70/13 are not sold here any longer , over your way they are ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Offline robertwwithee

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #241 on: September 02, 2017, 02:17:40 PM »
Dutchwagon picked some wheels over there in NL.  I will probably head over next year for more training with company.  Love the Pinto group and company that sends me world wide.

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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #242 on: September 02, 2017, 08:31:33 PM »
Yes, the 2.3T engine is about 110lbs/50kg heavier than the 2.0 it replaced and several other parts have added weight or will. The stock 9" brakes feel really inadequate after a spirited drive yesterday.


Update: All I seem to do is spend money and get nothing done. Can't take it with you, right? ;)

New shoes:


New coolers:


Why won't 11" brakes fit behind stock 13s? Bolt pattern aside, here's why:


It's amazing that these cars stop at all.


That's an old Granada rotor I've been dragging around for 10+ years, originally a spare for the Granada swap I've been planning to do on my '68 Mustang for....10+ years.

On a side note, the Mustang has been diverting some of my attention and funds away from the Pinto. A large wood rat moved in while the car was mothballed and not only tore up the engine bay, but destroyed the shift boot and started on the interior. The rat died of acute lead poisoning yesterday and now I'm working toward getting the engine rewired.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #243 on: September 02, 2017, 08:54:38 PM »
I had rats getting in my '61 Corvair station wagon (the heater ducting is a "Habitrail" to them). For 20+ years now it has been a storage container and thus (like it sounds with the Mustang) doesn't get driven.  I put it up on jackstands and put drywall mud bucket lids between the top of the stand and the car. The lids seem to make a sufficiently slippery surface the rats can't grab onto and since doing so 5+ years ago have not had a problem.

  Well, no problem with live rats. The smell is still present despite having cut out flooring, securing the opening with plywood and power washing the whole interior numerous time with bleach, laundry detergent and then numerous coatings of Urine Gone.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #244 on: September 07, 2017, 07:43:54 PM »
If you have Disk brakes up front you may not need an up grade , just need power brakes  , I have it on my pintos and works very well and wish i had them sooner , can lock them up very easy at highways speeds , so no problem , you just might have to install a brake booster ,I believe it can be done , the early pinto is very light , mine is close to being 800 lbs heaver , Auto , A/C , power everything along with a V-6 , My wheels are 15 X 7 4 lug , run a 205/60/15 , everything clears up front , as for the 8" rear end I have a rear housing with axles if you want them , got to pick then up here or anyone that headed your way can , (Free)  and Dutch Wagon I have a set of stock pinto mag wheels if you can get your friend to carry them over to you , stock 13'  had to got to the 15,s because the 13inch tires like 195/70/13 are not sold here any longer , over your way they are ,

Woops, I didn't see your reply.  :P Thanks for the offer on the 8", but I don't know how I'd get it here.

I can lock the little stock manual brakes, but slowing down from high(way) speed quickly is not as confidence-inspiring.

95% of my brake swap parts came in today anyway. Metric calipers, pads, hoses, bearings, etc.  8)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #245 on: September 09, 2017, 11:34:20 PM »
Preview of coming attractions:


I'll leave this to your imagination.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #246 on: September 11, 2017, 07:35:59 PM »
Sunday was spent modifying caliper brackets and doing the fit up. This side would have been done and installed completely, but was thwarted by needing some brake line adapters I didn't have.







Yes this weld is ugly, but I'm confident that the strength is satisfactory. I was having trouble getting it all clean enough to use the TIG and resorted to flux core. (That gold chromate is awful) It's welded  more on the other side and that part is under compression during braking.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #247 on: September 23, 2017, 07:59:18 PM »


Progress was slow due to me being out of town last weekend and no lathe access today, but one side effectively done:


'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #248 on: October 07, 2017, 10:58:27 PM »
I'm going to roll last week's progress into this weekend's update(s).

The axles required spacers to set the MII bearing offset.


and they had to be shortened, which is pretty tough with hardened chromoly


old vs new


MII drums redrilled for fives


I got the rear in the car today and the brakes are bled and everything, but I still have to make some hub-centric rings before the wheels go on. Then....test drive.  8) It's going to be a big change going from 3.55s to 3.00s, but I ran the numbers and it ought to be within about 50rpm at 60mph of the '86 'Bird my driveline came from.

Oh, fun fact: the relined Wagner brake shoes I got for this project happened to be old shelf stock and are made of asbestos. The light gray fuzzy fibers gave it away.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #249 on: October 08, 2017, 05:52:34 PM »
Here is my experience with the 3.00 rear:

1. The T-5, 3.97/4.01 first gear is a near granny gear.  So, I did not find the 3.00 (coming from a 3.40) to be a negative.

2. Initially I was using the 3.00 with 215-60-14" tires. This gave a longer pull time in each gear (more time under boost) that I didn't necessarily see as a negative.

3. The negative I had with the 3.00 gears was that in normal street driving the power band never seemed to fall into a decent point for typical speed limits.  A given gear seemed to wind out too much and an upshift seemed to bog.  I found it very frustrating.

4. I went to 3.40 and for general driving it is very pleasing with the current 175-70-13" tires though I still think first gear is a bit granny.  Eventually I'm going to a taller tire to alleviate that and also get back to the longer pull time under boost.

5. I realize tire size (height) is also a determining factor but in general I think with the turbo motor and the T-5, 3.25 are about the best rear gears. Unfortunately I was told that Ford only offered that ratio briefly and it is almost never found outside of aftermarket. The 6-3/4" did have 3.18 but the strength issue is there.

What is the tire size? I'm looking forward to your impressions of the 3.00. And, as always your work is top notch! As too the asbestos, don't worry, We are too old for that to kill use before something else does.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #250 on: October 08, 2017, 07:14:11 PM »
Thanks. The tires I got are 205/50R15 so they're only about 23" tall.

Annnndd....



The back needs to be lowered a bit, but at least it's all back together.

The 3.00 gears are actually pretty good with my car and the 'Bird T5. It seems to accelerate about as fast as before, but can stay in boost longer now.  I did find a 3.25 open center section for sale a few days ago, but now I'm just going to wait until I get a limited slip diff of some kind.

Maybe now I can focus on getting it intercooled.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #251 on: October 15, 2017, 11:42:57 PM »
And it needs an intercooler. After bleeding the passenger front brake a little more and finally getting a good pedal, I took it out to cover some shakedown miles. In the upper gears I can hear it pinging. The intake temp hovers around 150F all the time and only goes up from there when under boost. 16psi is probably a lot for no IC.... :o

It's been a while since the last video, so behold audible pinging:


Spent some of yesterday lightening the BOV piston. Original was all brass and quite weighty. I blew the center out and replaced it with an aluminum core. Mass was reduced by more than half, so it should be able to open better than twice as fast. This was done in preparation for a Holset turbo down the line. Rumor has it that the tiny 6mm quill holding the compressor on can fail under high boost surge and that a fast-acting BOV helps prevent it. True or not, it was something I planned to do anyway. I was hoping that the pointed tip would be quieter than the original, but I think it might actually be louder.  ???






And I experimented with anodizing titanium. Because reasons.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 73wagon

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #252 on: October 22, 2017, 06:05:31 PM »
One of the best looking Pintos ever! Simple,clean looking car.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #253 on: October 31, 2017, 07:27:39 PM »
Thanks a lot!  :D

There have been a lot of non-Pinto things taking up my time as of late, so here's a Cliffs version:

- Put five gallons of 100 octane in the car. Car loves it...may be habit-forming.  :o
- No pinging means staying in the throttle enough to discover the engine noses-over at 4500rpm. Suspect worn         valvetrain.
- Seat belt buckle broke last week. Fixed it.
- Vacuumed the interior afterward. Discovered a leaking heater core.
- Got a new core. Not installed yet.
- Got an intercooler plumbing kit. Not installed yet.
- Got some better braided front brake hoses and fittings. Not installed yet.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #254 on: November 01, 2017, 09:30:07 AM »
Your car should be an example to the world of Pintos that a bunch of cobbled up mod is never necessary to have very nice looking Pinto without spending mega $$$$. Yours is a very NICE car that anyone would be proud of. Keep up the good work!!!!
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #255 on: November 01, 2017, 01:08:56 PM »
... - No pinging means staying in the throttle enough to discover the engine noses-over at 4500rpm.  ...

That was my experience as well. My set up was from my Turbo Coupe that for 10 years was my daily driver. Obviously a much heavier car. So, I was a bit surprised when the Pinto didn't seem any faster/quicker, only that it made a lot more noise. That, and there was now this presence I needed to shift (4,500 RPM nose over) if I were to perceive an accelerative force. The best way to describe it that is was like a 10 speed bike on level ground and one might have felt it accelerated better starting in 2nd, or 3rd gear as 1st gear was just too low.  The "fun" of my car was with the 3.00 rear gears and 215-60-14" tires, getting up to 40 MPH in 3rd gear and then pressing (not slamming) into the throttle. That made for a lengthy "pull" and thus the most satisfying. It's just that as I stated above with the 3.40 gears it is much better for in town driving and having the right gear at the right time.

I'm wondering if the Pinto/RR cam is any of the difference maker from the T/C/factory flat cam in the way I perceive acceleration???

Offline dick1172762

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #256 on: November 01, 2017, 02:23:57 PM »
I've talked to several members on here with the Ranger cam, and all say the cam quits pulling above 4500 rpm. It's made for torque in a pick up truck and as such will never see 5, 6, or 7000rpm. Perfect example of saylavee (such is life).
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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #257 on: November 05, 2017, 10:01:33 PM »
Your car should be an example to the world of Pintos that a bunch of cobbled up mod is never necessary to have very nice looking Pinto without spending mega $$$$. Yours is a very NICE car that anyone would be proud of. Keep up the good work!!!!

That's quite a compliment. Thanks!

I happened to notice a sticky note on my desk that I wrote some time back in 2014. It has the stock '86 'Bird engine specs and the power peak is at 4600rpm. That is the stock rating; the cam in mine is visibly worn enough be down on lift by 0.030-0.050" which probably makes it wheezier.

I have a Ranger roller to install to at least bring it back to stock. I think I'll make an adjustable cam pulley to retard timing and bring the power peak in a little later though. It's tempting to just pull the head and take a little iron out behind the valves...
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline dick1172762

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #258 on: November 06, 2017, 01:42:19 PM »
One can never say too much on such a good car. Inter it in as many car shows that you can stand. Spread the Pinto love story.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #259 on: November 06, 2017, 04:43:05 PM »
That's quite a compliment. Thanks!

I happened to notice a sticky note on my desk that I wrote some time back in 2014. It has the stock '86 'Bird engine specs and the power peak is at 4600rpm. That is the stock rating; the cam in mine is visibly worn enough be down on lift by 0.030-0.050" which probably makes it wheezier.

I have a Ranger roller to install to at least bring it back to stock. I think I'll make an adjustable cam pulley to retard timing and bring the power peak in a little later though. It's tempting to just pull the head and take a little iron out behind the valves...

I'll look forward to your impressions of the RR cam.  This is pure speculation on my part but with a turbo I'd think that duration would be more important than lift. The rational being that under pressure you can likely push more air past the valve at the same lift over a N/A engine. But if the valve is only open so long ... might that become the greater limiter???

Offline dick1172762

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #260 on: November 07, 2017, 01:04:05 PM »
I have talked to several members on here that are using a Ranger roller cam. They all say you need to grab another gear by 4500 RPM. I talked to one member in the north east who runs a turbo and a Ranger RR cam. 4500 RPM max is what he says. Only thing I can is the lifters. I ran anti pump up lifters in my 80 Pinto race car. With a stock cam it would go past 6000 RPM with ease. This might be problem with the Ranger RR cam. I have Comp Cams anti pump up lifters along with the RR cam in my 80 Pinto soon to be a daily driver. I let you know when I get to drive it again.
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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #261 on: May 10, 2018, 09:28:29 PM »
Perhaps my calling was missed as an archaeologist what with how often I dig up this ancient thread.

Two words: life happens.
-----------------

But this is now, and this is what's going on:

The Ranger cam was a stopgap plan, but plans (always seem to) change. Last week I got a barely used Engle "Hot turbo Pinto roller" whatever cam for a good price. It has a stockish base circle and some healthy lift, so I'll have to check all the geometry and clearances before running it AND pick out some suitable springs. It wouldn't do much on a stock head, but...

There are a lot of project plans that intersect at this point. In order to take advantage of the cam, I need to port the head. In order to do that, I have to pull the head. While it's off, I might as well install the Holset turbo, but that means revamping the exhaust. To leverage the Holset and its copious boost potential, I need an intercooler. To feed the power, I have some 95lb injectors to install.

With guarded optimism I hope, hope to run the car at a local 1000ft drag strip before season's end. Even bought a helmet.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #262 on: May 12, 2018, 12:40:33 PM »
 I went to the RR cam at the same time I swapped the '88 TC engine to te Pinto.  On thing that struck me was that the Pinto felt no faster than the TC. I was surely expecting the close to 1,000 pound difference to be noticable. I have the small IHI turbo and everything is stock. So, maybe that is the difference right there.


Oddly the major difference I did notice was when I had 3.00 grears and 215-60-14 tires the car had the precence of a long hard pull under boost. That "it keeps going and Going and GOING" feel to it. It was horrible for around town driving though. Never the right gear/rpm for city speed limits.  I went to 3.40 and 175-70-13 (to use the Ralleye wheels) and in town driving was very pleasurable. But that "long pull under boost, going and GOING" was gone. It far quicker hit 5,000 RPM and seemed to die over. And with no real precence of boost until 3,000 RPM it was a quick "blip" of enhanced acceleration. So, maybe in my initial application the RR cam had its place as the RPM's increased more slowly.


One other thing power wise is the 87-88 cars had the fuel type switch. I think it raised the boost only 2-3 pounds but the "Premium" setting sure made a differrence in the TC! In the Pinto, less so but still somewhat noticable.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #263 on: May 18, 2018, 03:04:29 PM »
The "octane switch" was supposed to raise the boost a good 5psi and also let the ECU command more aggressive timing. When I had my '84 SVO I just always filled it with premium and left the octane switch on premium.
With the Pinto I have a stock boost control solenoid driven by the MegaSquirt. It could technically control boost infinitely between the low and high settings. However, the range of duty cycle between them is so narrow that it really only functions well as a high/low control like it was originally.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #264 on: May 26, 2018, 09:40:15 PM »
Last week I fired the car up and prepared to take it "around the block," but that was thwarted when the brake pedal went to the floor(in the driveway). The last two afternoons have been spent finding out why and trying to fix the cause.

The cause was the caliper banjo bolt hitting the upper control arm, which caused it to loosen and leak.

The solution, if it can be called that, was to swap the calipers to opposite sides and bend the steel ends of the lines quite a bit. This puts both the hose banjo and bleeder at the bottom of the caliper and creates the added complication of having to pull the caliper and flip it over in order to bleed the brakes. I was going to install stainless braided hoses, but they're not long enough with the banjo down low. I'm not happy with the arrangement and still have a minor fluid weep at one of the banjos, but at least the brakes work again.

I'm probably just going to replumb the front brakes and make some rack limiters until I think of a good long-term solution.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #265 on: January 12, 2019, 10:40:12 PM »
I'm hesitant to bump this thread(already at the top), but have been thinking about it for many months.
I bought a used Engle "turbo Pinto" roller cam from BoPort a while back and some Comp Cam s990 springs from another source. It's all been in a box because all the individual things I want to do to the car are dependent on each other. HY35 turbo needs injectors, intercooler, and exhaust. More power needs a ported head and HY35 turbo. Ported head needs time and a valve job. The O2 sensor is acting weird and I'm not sure if it's a bad sensor or bad controller. Etc etc etc.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #266 on: June 14, 2019, 08:36:12 PM »
The O2 sensor is acting weird and I'm not sure if it's a bad sensor or bad controller.

I found out last week that...both, but mostly controller. It was an Innovate LC-1 I bought in 2006 and didn't install until 2014 when I put in the Pinto. The sensor was bad too, but it could have failed on its own or been damaged by a malfunctioning controller. It all has maybe 500-800mi on it. >:( I even tore it apart and tried flashing the firmware from the circuit board contacts. The firmware reloaded several times and didn't change the flaky behavior so it's junk. Fortunately I have a newer LC-2+gauge that was going into this car anyway, but now I don't have a wideband O2 for other projects.

Speaking of other projects, that is partly why I haven't updated recently. I was working intensely on a nitro hemi minibike and got slowed down with getting nitro and putting EFI on it plus a bunch of other stuff going on and I still don't have methanol. My Mustang needs attention too.

I also spent the last two hours pulling a rotting mouse out of the cowl of my truck. :P
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #267 on: July 06, 2019, 08:14:37 PM »
Yesterday I installed a new LC-2 & LSU4.9 (in the stock location with a heat sink as before) originally meant for another project. It seems to work properly, but is showing my AFRs being anywhere from 0.5 to 2.5 points leaner(!) than the old WBO2....like 14.0:1 at 15psi. :eek:

That could explain why the car felt down on power and was pinging a bit.  :o
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #268 on: October 02, 2020, 07:02:44 PM »
Off and on for a long time it has been difficult to get the acceleration enrichment right. Usually simple time-based AE that I'm using is fairly straightforwar d; see if it spikes lean or dips rich after giving it throttle and add/remove fuel accordingly. Mine has had a persistent tip-in stumble that didn't respond to fuel. Turns out the TPS sensor shifted and it wasn't reading throttle input until it was already open ~15%. Fixing that, recalibrating, and adding a bunch of fuel rewarded me with a slight AFR increase when stabbing the gas and vastly better throttle response. It needs more polishing, but is already 90% better than before.  8)
The newer wideband sensor is not happy with the heat of being 3" from the turbine, so that has to be moved. Then I might as well make a 3" downpipe. Then I might as well built it to fit the Holset turbo. The Holset won't be fun with a stock engine, so I might as well upgrade the top end.
At this point I've gathered just about all the parts needed to install a ported head with stock valves:
  • Crower 990 springs
  • Crower 744 retainers
  • Crower shims
  • Engle "Hot Pinto roller" cam, 0.485" & 222/218 (pretty close to a TCS-111 in roller guise from what I gather)
  • roller followers
  • low-profile valve seals
  • turbo exhaust valves
  • ported E6 manifold
  • 1000cc Rochester injectors
That just leaves porting a cylinder head.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #269 on: October 03, 2020, 12:49:15 PM »
 Funny how that it, "One thing leading to another." When I first got my T/C the TPS was bad. It does have a minimum voltage setting upon installation.

This should be one fast Pinto when done. Is the dragstrip in Palmdale still there?