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Bullitt4248

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Offline 65ShelbyClone

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My 1972 turbo swap thread
« on: July 20, 2014, 12:39:02 PM »
The car:


'86 Turbo Coupe donor on the way home:


This is the kind of 28 year-old desert dirt and grime I had to contend with. It was still encrusted after three motor bath + pressure washing sessions. I finally said "Enough!" and pulled the driveline.




After many hours of grueling scraping, degreasing, sand blasting, and painting, this is how the engine is shaping up:



I left the longblock alone and just tidied everything up. I wanted to port the head, intake, and exhaust manifold. This engine has 214k on it already, so I figure it's probably going to come out for a rebuild in the next 50k anyway. I also elected to not invest a bunch of work in the head if it's cracked all to heck...and 80-90% of 2.3T heads are.



I probably shouldn't have pulled the turbo and manifold off without replacing all the nuts and bolts. Time will tell if they relax and cause leaks.

I am going to be using a MegaSquirt-II v3.0 standalone EFI controller, which needs to have an intake air temp (IAT) sensor. My '86 engine had an IAT in the air meter, which I am not using. This meant poking a hole in the lower intake and mounting a sensor like an '87+ engine. Left hole is for the knock sensor, right one that's fuzzy is for the IAT.


'85.5-86 "square" EFI intakes like mine have the tall upper part. In '87 they were shortened to fit the TurboCoupe. At this point I am not willing to blow a big ugly hole in my stock hood or cut up the intake, so I have to make a low-profile upper intake plenum that faces forward. This is the start:


I have made some progress since taking these photos, but nothing very noteworthy. I'l probably relocate the alternator to where the 2.3t's A/C compressor was in front of the turbo so I have lots of room to deal with throttle body positioning. That is also where the 2.0's alternator is, so maybe a little wiring to do too.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2014, 04:15:13 PM »
NICE.... I really like that oil pan, did you mod a stock one or buy it ?

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2014, 05:49:12 PM »
Been there, done that. The 87-88 electrical is a real joy (see pics). Your work is exceptionally nice.  I also noticed your motor mounts and large (wide) sump oil pan.  All the best in your venture.







Offline dga57

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2014, 09:09:55 PM »
Looks like it's coming along nicely!  Keep up the good work!
 
Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2014, 11:32:14 PM »
That is also where the 2.0's alternator is, so maybe a little less wiring to do too.

Oops, fixed.

I did manage to relocate the alternator today and all it took was modifying a 460 alternator bracket and making some spacers. Now I can strip off all those huge brackets on the other side.

Now I have to fit the dipstick, plug the old hole, put some of the EFI harness back, and it will be ready to come off the stand, which means bolting on the T5 and pulling the 2.0/four-speed out.

NICE.... I really like that oil pan, did you mod a stock one or buy it ?

Thanks.  :) I bought it because there weren't any other Pinto pans and pickups for sale at the time. Supposedly it came from a 2.3 engine builder/race shop. It's actually built from what was originally a rear-sump pan.


It was also cracked next to the welds in the rear end seal corners and I didn't notice until I had wet sealer and new gaskets laying on the block.  >:( It's fixed now; I just hope it stays fixed. If nothing else, it's a good shelf for storing loose bolts.

No photos, but I had to swap two of the main bolts to get a studded one in the right place for that pickup. The bearings looked really good on #4, so hopefully the rest are. I was going to pull all the rod caps and have a look, but decided I didn't want to know. I made the 'Bird run before I pulled the engine and it sounded/acted normal for burning seven year-old gas, so that's enough for now.

Been there, done that. The 87-88 electrical is a real joy (see pics). Your work is exceptionally nice.  I also noticed your motor mounts and large (wide) sump oil pan.  All the best in your venture.

Look at all that spare wire though! And you got the dash out of there too. I started breaking things just to get the engine harness out...

For engine mounts I'm planning to use the stock 2.3T engine brackets, Speedway Motors universal isolators, and make my own frame brackets.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Srt

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 03:53:04 AM »
!!!! good project.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Offline 74 PintoWagon

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2014, 07:44:49 AM »
It's looking good, good luck on the project..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 12:06:19 PM »
Race engineering sells a pan I'm looking at, very similar to that.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 12:20:11 PM »
I went back and looked and I guess it came from Jonson Machine. Whether they built it or just sold it, I don't know. Could be a C-Line.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 03:21:26 AM »
More.





It's really tempting to cheap out and use the crush-bent stock 2.25" downpipe, but I'm probably going to use that mandrel u-bend in the back to make a 2.5" one.

It's not much to look at, but this is a 6061 dipstick plug. Two o-rings to seal and an interference fit at the top.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 04:39:19 PM »
open that exhaust up, 3" mandrill bent down pipe and exhaust...!  you really will be glad you did.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 06:43:54 PM »
Says you with an ARCA head, Holset turbo, and 900hp fuel system.  ;)

I wanted to go 3.00" out the back (do it right the first time is my mantra) and probably will in the future, but I have the parts now and am looking more at being able to drive the car soon. It's probably going to be 2.5" from the turbo down to a glasspack with a turndown facing down and to the side (ugly and loud, but at least I'll hear the turbine!  ;D). Something could change, though. This morning I thought I'd have to fabricate a whole upper intake. An hour ago I bought the throttle body and elbow setup from a 4.6 Mustang to use instead. :o It's kind of like a smaller, lower profile version of the Edelbrock elbow you were working with.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 04:34:24 AM »
that's an SVO Head.  ;D

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 01:04:23 PM »
Tomayto, tomahto.  ;)

Anyway, this is the thing I bought:


in order to make a setup reminiscent of this one:


I wish I could find more information on that car.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline turbopinto72

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2014, 01:37:38 PM »
What kind of info do you need on " that car " ?
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2014, 01:41:42 PM »
I plan on redesigning my under hood plumbing in the future. I will use a different header, one that tilts the turbo more towards the fender and a bit lower. on the intake side, instead of the upper mounted on top, it will be mounted on the side towards the fender. I have kind of mocked it up like that and it will all fit under a stock hood.  ;D.....   but back to your setup. I think one of the guys on TF used that piece on his euro capri and it worked well. so I see no problems on your setup.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2014, 02:27:35 PM »
That sounds like DRHaulsee. He has a fleet of nice Euro Capris, including one with a Volvo head. Thanks for the lead, it gives me more to go by as I further wear out TF's search engine.  ;D

In other news, I didn't like my first alternator bracket. It seemed kind of flexy, so I rebuilt it with more substantial material. Then I mocked-up the belt and it hit the lower bolts. Then I found out the spacers I made just happened to allow the adjuster to be run behind the lower bracket, so now only one bolt is in the way. I think I can shave the head down and make it work or countersink the bracket and use a different bolt.




What kind of info do you need on " that car " ?

Specifically: perhaps what was done to adapt the 4.6L elbow to the lower intake and how well it worked. It looks like new holes were put in the flange it was bolted to a square EFI lower.

Generally: maybe a rundown of the mods and how the car performed. I thought it was your Pinto and tried searching, but the most Icould easily find was the picture I posted and a smaller one like it on bob2000.com
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2014, 09:58:01 PM »
In other news, part of a Mustang II Mach 1 headed for certain death will instead better the life my Pinto.

'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2014, 01:46:03 PM »
nice 8", what ratio is it ?  trac lock ?

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2014, 07:58:25 PM »
It's just a common 3.00 open diff. OEM 8in Traction-Lok carriers are like hen's teeth. In fact, I'm not sure Ford ever used them in production.

It needs a pinion seal too. Fortunately I have another 8in rear that doesn't, so I may swap the third members when I'm replacing the axle bearings and seals.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2014, 11:47:31 PM »
they did go into production, I had one, same 3.00, out of a 67 falcon. found it in a jy. but anyway, that's neither here nor there. you going to put a spool or something in it ? change the ratio ?

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2014, 02:39:08 AM »
I would like to go with 3.40 or 3.55 gears and a T-Lok. For now it's going to get used as it is. The legs are going to be pretty long with overdrive.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2014, 12:16:37 AM »
When I first got my Turbo Pinto going I had the 3.00 with 215-60-14" tires. 65 MPH was about 2000 RPM.  The worst part was that for any given "legal" speed the gearing just seemed to be wrong. Up shifting bogged and down shifting was RPMs with little torque multiplication .

 Eventually I got a 3.40 rear and am currently running 175-70-13".  For general driving it is MUCH better.  65 MPH is now about 2600 RPM.  I'm going to a slightly taller tire soon. I've got a pair of 205-60-13". I'm also looking at going back to 14" tires too.  I've got about four different wheel tires combinations to try between my Sunbeam Tiger and my Pinto.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2014, 11:08:07 PM »
My first gear is the really steep 4.03 one, so the 3.00s won't be a problem taking off, but overdrive is going to be mostly useless.

I crunched the numbers manually and my car will do a scoche over 2600rpm at 65mph in 4th and about 2100 in 5th with 3.00s. 3.40 gears would bring that up to ~2450 in 5th and 3.55s would do about 2600. Decisions, decisions.

Here is my 130A Jewel of the Pile:


I took it apart to clean and repack the bearings, dress the commutator, and managed to break the brushes, so there's another $9 toward the project. At least it will be practically rebuilt and won't even break a sweat with the electric fan, lights, and EFI going.

And here is what I spent my evening doing:
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Reeves1

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2014, 10:43:40 AM »
Having the engine out will make it lighter for shipping me that nice car  ;D

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2014, 06:31:29 PM »
I don't think I've ever seen your car before. Is that the green car that was on Craig's List in Simi Valley a number of months ago?

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2014, 09:14:09 PM »
Question for anyone else with a 2.3T swap, espeically in a '71-73 car: how did you handle running the EFI harness into the cabin?

Having the engine out will make it lighter for shipping me that nice car  ;D

You don't want it; it's rotten. See how green it is?

I don't think I've ever seen your car before. Is that the green car that was on Craig's List in Simi Valley a number of months ago?

Sounds like the same one.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #27 on: August 07, 2014, 12:48:33 AM »
I used the dreaded '88 harness I had from the donor car. I put the ECU in the kick panel area just like the T-Bird.  I used the T-Bird Factory triangular shaped grommet and ran it in near the upper corner of the heater box.  Since your donor car is an '86 that may be all you need. BTW, after the Merkur harness I hear the '86 is desirable.
  I also had a round grommet and wires that I ran in about 3" from the factory Pinto passage.  Lastly, I used the T-Bird steering column and that added to the wire count.  I'll see if I can snap a few pictures tomorrow.

And, yes, I almost went and looked at the Simi Valley car.  It was only about 8 miles away.  But, I've got too many project competing for my time and money.  Glad to see it is becoming a very nice car.

Offline don33

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2014, 05:08:46 AM »
what year/model car did you get that 130 amp jewel out of ?

Offline 65ShelbyClone

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Re: My 1972 turbo swap thread
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2014, 10:35:55 AM »
I got it out of a '96-98 Mustang V6. They can be found in many other years and models from around '94+. The trick is finding one with the right case. My 3G has all the 1G mounting points, but the adjuster ear isn't threaded. It requires either a bolt and nut to hold it or possibly installing a 3/8" thread insert.

1.) I used the dreaded '88 harness I had from the donor car. I put the ECU in the kick panel area just like the T-Bird.  I used the T-Bird Factory triangular shaped grommet and ran it in near the upper corner of the heater box.  Since your donor car is an '86 that may be all you need. BTW, after the Merkur harness I hear the '86 is desirable.
  I also had a round grommet and wires that I ran in about 3" from the factory Pinto passage.  Lastly, I used the T-Bird steering column and that added to the wire count.  I'll see if I can snap a few pictures tomorrow.

2.) And, yes, I almost went and looked at the Simi Valley car.  It was only about 8 miles away.  But, I've got too many project competing for my time and money.  Glad to see it is becoming a very nice car.

1.) Thanks for the run down. I will admit that I have not yet surveyed the interior for places to put the EFI harness. I am reluctant to make another big hole in the firewall. I wanted to put my ECU behind the console area and the big factory grommet looks to be close, so a round one like stock, but with two holes might make it easier to do.

I'm going to be using a MegaSquirt standalone ECU so the whole package will be about 40% smaller than the stock ECU/plug/harness.

2.) Thanks.  ;) It's going to get nicer. One of my goals after the swap is to respray it when the weather isn't too hot and before it gets too cool. Here in the high desert that typically gives me a 7-14 day window.  ::)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.