16 Guests, 2 Users
AV80R, Tonycando

Author Topic: cam degreeing  (Read 5558 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 82expghost

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • FeedBack: +84/-0
  • Die tires die!

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Windows User
cam degreeing
« on: April 22, 2014, 04:43:37 AM »
24+ pounds of boost, roller cam, front mount, brown tops, 88 tbird ecu, ported polished, dual valve springs, looking for 8500 rpms, so my question is, what would be a good degree for the cam for alittle more power, advance or retard? oh and 110 race gas
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 10:23:23 PM »
Reaching for the stars are we?

With 24# boost and 8500 rpm you are in pro race territory, you need to be setting the cam on a dyno run jack. No one number is going to fit you, you need to run it and change it a few times. You better be running different injectors and a tune on the PCM as well.

Offline 82expghost

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • FeedBack: +84/-0
  • Die tires die!

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 01:42:29 AM »
roller cam as in ranger, i was just wanting 300, stinger performance says that should be doable on the stock 88 tbird stuff, also , what should my base fuel pressure be? the reason for the over kill is that im planning on being very rough on the car
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2014, 12:04:25 AM »
Not on this planet or any other will a Ranger stock roller flow enough to turn 8500 and make good power.

Offline Wittsend

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2256
  • FeedBack: +241/-0

  • Total Badges: 8
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Mobile User Topic Starter Poll Voter 1000 Posts Linux User Windows User Fifth year Anniversary
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 01:12:48 PM »
AMC 49 is correct.

  I have "Stock 88 T-Bird Stuff" with a Ranger Roller and factory boost. Everything pretty much runs out of wind between 4,500 RPM - 5,000 RPM.  The "fun" of my Turbo Pinto is to drive away like a normal Pinto, shift and gradually press down on the accelerator. Where as a stock Pinto will have glacial acceleration - the Turbo Pinto is more like an avalanche. It exponentiation gathers speed, but like the avalanche it is quickly over. 

Offline 82expghost

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • FeedBack: +84/-0
  • Die tires die!

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2014, 12:39:17 AM »
well now, i cant have that, now i need a cam, sucks i need to pull the head back apart, now i think i should just go all in and make it solid lift, im glad you all have experence on this. i know i want to hit the 8500 range, cam sujestions?
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Offline 65ShelbyClone

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 723
  • FeedBack: +139/-0
  • Soylent Green

  • Total Badges: 7
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Mobile User Linux User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2014, 02:10:47 AM »
Are you after 8500rpm for a reason or just because?

You don't need to twist it that hard to make 300hp. Expect the IHI turbo to have a short life in that pursuit, however.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 82expghost

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • FeedBack: +84/-0
  • Die tires die!

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2014, 04:25:00 AM »
i have a garrett 64. one of the hard to get one, it has a .48 hot side specialy machined out to the .64 with tight tolerences. around town and on our tracks down here all i need really is 1 and 2, and my gearing to second gear gets to 68 if i hit 6600 rpm, so now turbo should make it quicker, so i need the extra rpms to take alittle longer to keep from shifting, my buddy got mad because my pinto could beat his m3 on track, so he went turbo, so im going turbo and need to stay ahead, been looking at the boport 2.1
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Offline 65ShelbyClone

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 723
  • FeedBack: +139/-0
  • Soylent Green

  • Total Badges: 7
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Mobile User Linux User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2014, 10:59:51 PM »
A "Garrett 64?" The "hard to get one?"

???

I'm left guessing that it's an oversized turbine wheel, in which case....what does the ".64" refer to and why is it stuffed into a little 0.48 A/R housing? What compressor is it attached to?
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline 82expghost

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • FeedBack: +84/-0
  • Die tires die!

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2014, 06:28:26 AM »
.63 ar, its the biggest that came on the 2.3s, it has a .48 exhaust side machined out to except the bigger wheel and has tighter tolerences, most of the .63 have cracked and are hard to find.
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Offline 65ShelbyClone

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 723
  • FeedBack: +139/-0
  • Soylent Green

  • Total Badges: 7
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Mobile User Linux User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2014, 01:38:18 AM »
There is no difference between the compressors nor turbine wheels in the T3 turbos that came on 2.3T engines. There are no modifications needed whatsoever to switch between a 0.48 and 0.63 housing on a stock T3.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline don33

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 280
  • FeedBack: +5/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Fifth year Anniversary Poll Voter Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2014, 12:39:32 PM »
Not on this planet or any other will a Ranger stock roller flow enough to turn 8500 and make good power.

neither will the turbo, it will run out of wind long before 8500.

Offline 82expghost

  • Pinto Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 154
  • FeedBack: +84/-0
  • Die tires die!

  • Total Badges: 5
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Fifth year Anniversary Mobile User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 12:40:54 AM »
it diddnt fit before i had it machined, i thaught it would go together also, because your not the only one to tell me that, its about a 1/4 inch difference on the exducer, and about 1/8 on inducer on the exhaust side compared the the 4 xr4ti turbos i have, i figured the bigger exhaust side would slow the turbo down resulting in a later spool, if it still doesnt do what i want i will keep upgrading till i find it.

the turbo is least of my worries, i just want the extra rpms, i cant afford to shift, if i shift with a 100 feet left to go before the turn, the shift will be in vain, im not looking for rediculus power, 300 to mabe 350, i went kinda big on the clutch and crank, rods, pistons valves springs because the motor is going to be abused.

i need a cam that will get me to the good 8500 range, works good at 20-24#, dont care if it lopes or is a pain to drive
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2014, 01:42:24 PM »
Worse than that, 8500 is totally unpractical rpm for a street car, you'll find out soon enough. If you have some sort of shifting issues then changing trans to get what you want will be the cure there. You will be way past 'a pain to drive'............an d being rough on a car and 8500 rpm do not go together either. A true 8500 rpm motor will be like a fine piece of jewelry, and easily broken.

Offline 65ShelbyClone

  • Pinto Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 723
  • FeedBack: +139/-0
  • Soylent Green

  • Total Badges: 7
    Badges: (View All)
    Fifth year Anniversary Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Mobile User Linux User Windows User
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2014, 09:35:33 PM »
And there again, it's wholly unnecessary for making just 300hp. Or even double that.

Watch this video and when the in-car view comes up, take note of how high the tach doesn't go:



He hardly takes that car to 7000 and it goes bottom 10s/high 9s in the quarter mile.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Offline Wittsend

  • Pinto Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 2256
  • FeedBack: +241/-0

  • Total Badges: 8
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Mobile User Topic Starter Poll Voter 1000 Posts Linux User Windows User Fifth year Anniversary
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2014, 11:40:54 PM »
"i cant afford to shift, if i shift with a 100 feet left to go before the turn, the shift will be in vain,"

Exactly how fast are you going at an expected 8,500 RPM that 100 ft. before a turn you wouldn't seriously be (and have been) on the brakes and down shifting?  Is this some type of road race course?  You mention "the turn," are you speaking of a specific turn or turns in general? The reason being every course has situations were things can not be ideal. Even race crews with multiple rear ratios and various ratio transmissions have to compromise for the greater good knowing there are specific situations that could be better.

There are people here who genuinely like to help others.  But it can get confounding when goals seem unobtainable (or at least sustainable) for purposes that don't seem to add up.  If you could be more explicit about what you are attempting to attain, I think the collective brains here can either help you get there, or point out that the goal is hampered with impracticality .

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2014, 01:53:06 AM »
Yeah, he's not spinning it hard at all there. Almost like shortshifting. .............. ....

Offline amc49

  • PCCA VIP
  • Pinto Master
  • ***
  • Posts: 1256
  • FeedBack: +242/-1
  • Another Pinto Driver

  • Total Badges: 4
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2014, 02:03:43 AM »
On the CBF website we used to follow this guy, no way is HE short shifting, that car is trying to come loose even in 4th gear and all wheel drive. Simply awesome for a four cylinder, we had trouble getting there with 720 inch big motors.


Offline dick1172762

  • Vintage Pinto Racer
  • PCCA Management Board
  • Pinto Sr. Master
  • ******
  • Posts: 2623
  • FeedBack: +362/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm a llama!

  • Total Badges: 7
    Badges: (View All)
    Topic Starter Signature Poll Voter Windows User 1000 Posts Tenth year Anniversary Fifth year Anniversary
Re: cam degreeing
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2014, 10:16:23 AM »
For a 8500+ cam and a big basket, go to 4m.net and see what the dirt track boys use.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.