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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

More Pinto Parts in the TRASH!! THANKS EBAY!

Started by 77turbopinto, June 23, 2008, 11:49:31 AM

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r4pinto

All I know is I bid on a computer cable for my old Commodore that I want to work and got no emails from the seller after I paid him. After almost three weeks with no cable at my place I emailed him about the cable. I left him feedback pretty much pointing out the lack of communication. It was still marked as positive, but it prolly pissed him off since I got no feedback in return. Generally when I sell merchandise I would leave feedback but then 3 people did not do the same so I would wait until the buyer left feedback, then the rule change.

Last I knew they would want to know of a bad buyer but now with the new rules they buyer gets no bad marks for not following through. That's wrong since the seller pays money but not the buyer. Kinds stupid.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

blupinto

I agree with Wittsend...if I send the payment before I get the item, then I should get the feedback first. The last transaction I did on ebay had this issue. The person who received my payment (via paypal no less) insisted I leave feedback as soon as I got my item before she would leave me feedback. She got bent out of shape when I explained MY policy of not giving fb til I got mine since I sent the money first. It's not ebay, it's boneheaded people who forgot about what's fair.
One can never have too many Pintos!

LBF

Quote from: rear ended on June 24, 2008, 09:20:29 PM
Well, until someone comes out with a better nationwide seller, e-bay will be here.  Craigslist is only a local seller unless you pick every county in the damn country one at a time.  It zoops, but they have the monopoly

http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/ms.cgi
Try this site for a Craigslist search engine...

gierhead

Yes....ePay is getting to be quite a challenge to use as a SELLER. I currently have a feedback rating of 1100 with no negatives. I did have to fight off one rather agressively when the UPS shipped items where stolen (?) off the buyer's front porch. It was a $300+ purchase and supposedly it was my fault the items got stolen so buyer wanted me to reimburse him for the loss. Didn't happen. I tactfully stalled the guy long enough till the feedback-giving deadline was over. Crisis averted.

Yes....their most recent fee restructuring just stinks. They were making $$ left and right at their old rate. And then they hike it up again. Please. Can't they consider dropping fees for once considering all the sales / volume they have on their website.

And then if you use the PayPal premiere account they hit you there too with more crazy fees. I have the basic PayPal account that prohibits credit / debit card payment. But NO FEES at least. And yes, many buyers are pissed because of that restriction. Oh well, send a money order or check instead. This is mentioned in all my auctions. And the credit / debit card PayPal people still hound me about not be able to use that option. Sorry.

I recently listed 20 Ford parts on eBay one night. I had the auctions end on the June 3rd since I was headed out of town for 2-1/2 weeks on the 13th. This would give buyers 10 days to get payments to me. I mentioned "8 calendar days" as my time limit on the auction pages. I was hoping that would get my point across on getting payments before I left. Well.... as you can imagine, 5 of those didn't arrive till after I had left. I even got one of these payments on 6-26. A record 23 days!!! I believe that this negative feedback changeover has made the buyers real lazy with their payment urgency. 5 of 20 auctions....25% of them......late. Hmmmm. 

Yes.... my ePay selling days are coming to an end also. I still have parts to clear out so I will tolerate their new policies and related problems for a little while longer. Sorry no Pinto / Bobcat parts at this time. Can't find them around her. Still looking for a 77-79 parts car so I can resurrect my 77/78 Bobcat ( underhood fire victim ).

Just my 2¢

Dale in KS
1977 Mercury Bobcat 3dr hatchback
(1 of 3616 Bobcats produced as 78 model but sold as 77)

Inoperative due to underhood fire!

Smeed

Quote from: starkey and hutch on June 28, 2008, 04:31:31 PM
                                                                                                                                                                      come on my father n law  is 79 he asked me to find him a log splitter on ebay ....and he says yes so i hit buy now ,,,,then the shipping cost comes the next day ,,,,,,.....he`s already drove to cambell river and got one    what do you do ......i told them he`s lost it,,,,,, help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hes coming he wants to buy more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!he has a great card limit but thats all..............no mind but u gotta ...................................................love   em right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Huh? Your father in law bought a log splitter on ebay, bought one locally and now he wants to buy more log splitters??

'73 runabout

starkey and hutch

Quote from: Smeed on June 23, 2008, 03:55:31 PM
I hate ebay as well. They are the same dirty pigs that own paypal. They really dont give a flying F as long as they get their money.

They did it to stop sellers from blackmailing buyers with negative feedback. That system was broken, yes. This one is no better and I honestly cant imagine how stupid you've got to be not to see that.
come on my father n law  is 79 he asked me to find him a log splitter on ebay ....and he says yes so i hit buy now ,,,,then the shipping cost comes the next day ,,,,,,.....he`s already drove to cambell river and got one    what do you do ......i told them he`s lost it,,,,,, help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hes coming he wants to buy more !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!he has a great card limit but thats all..............no mind but u gotta ...................................................love   em right !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smeed

Im sure the good outnumber that bad on ebay 10:1. Its just the cheated are the ones who are vocal about it  :-\

'73 runabout

Norman Bagi

Hey Bill,

E-bay aint all that bad, I found my Pinto there.  And met some cool people at the same time.

Norman Bagi

Well, until someone comes out with a better nationwide seller, e-bay will be here.  Craigslist is only a local seller unless you pick every county in the damn country one at a time.  It sucks, but they have the monopoly

gordie

If a seller is other than fair in his dealings I often just do not leave any feedback rather than risk getting a negative in retaliation.  The only negative I had for years was from a guy in Mexico who never sent the item.  I gave him a negative after three months thinking that he was too late to post.  Wrong!  Six months later I got a negative from this guy who cheated me just because I had given him one so it is not fair for the buyers either.  I have way over 3,500 positives and always try to leave feedback as soon as I receive my item but most sellers will not leave feedback until they see what you have left them.  It is really two separate transactions, one for the seller and one for the buyer.  I do not think that is fair that the seller can not give negative feedback to a deadbeat buyer.  It is not a perfect system but like you have said, it is the best one out there!

Smeed

Quote from: 77turbopinto on June 24, 2008, 07:32:53 AM
The sad part is that it is still the best market for what it does, but I soooo hope this new (poop) backfires for ebay.


Bill

I know what you mean. As much as I hate ebay and all of the crap they pull, its still the best place to find stuff. Thats because of the community though, not ebay. Google already has Google Checkout which is very much like paypal. All they need is an ebay equivalent and Im sure that they would crush ebay. They have the money and more importantly IMO, the reputation.

'73 runabout

77turbopinto

I have bought a couple of items only to find out that the condition was not as described. I then contacted the sellers and expressed my opinion of the condition in a polite mannor, and had the issue resolved to my satisfaction. I saw no reason in these cases to leave anything but positive feedback because the seller made good. I never threaten or try to extort anyone, just simply state my case where needed.

My opinion is there will be an SIGNIFICANT increase in 'buyer blackmail', and that feedback scores will drop and become less important to the average member.

The feedback system has never been, and will never be perfect, but not letting sellers express their TRUE thoughts about a deal is outrageous. Don't make me say the "L" word!!

Ebay will be very quick to state that they are "just a forum" when there are issues between members. I think that letting sellers have more control over their listings/bidders/auctions will help reduce problems. I routinely sell items that I won't ship, and CLEARLY state that, but I still get bidders that need/want/EXPECT shipping anyway. If they bid early enough I can cancel them (and block), but otherwise I am STUCK dealing with people that think they are so 'special' that I will bend my rules JUST for 'them'. Sellers should be able to cancel bids AFTER the auction ends, AND have to VERIFY the buyer BEFORE the buyer can leave feedback. This would help eliminate sellers buying something from a person that they sold an item to just to leave bad feedback. Only 'buyers', not 'bidders' should be able to leave feedback for sellers (in other words, if they don't follow through with the deal they should not be able to have the privileges that 'buyers' get).

I am not happy with the detailed seller rating thing either. I CLEARLY spell out my details for shipping/HANDLING costs, shipper, and the time that it will take me to get the item shipped (to the shipper). One would think that because I do EXACTLY what I say I will do, that I would have a 5/5 rating, at least for those two things, to go along with my 100% F/B score, but I don't. How stupid is that? To buyers: IF you don't like ALL the details spelled out in an auction: DON'T BID, or don't (insert another "B" word here). The entire concept of leaving "anonymous" feedback is INSANE!!

The sad part is that it is still the best market for what it does, but I soooo hope this new (poop) backfires for ebay.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Smeed

I think a system where the feedback is kept secret until both parties have submitted it would work best. You wouldnt have sellers slamming buyers who leave honest feedback with negs so there would be no reason for buyers to be less than truthful.

Ive got 100% feedback after 52 transactions on ebay and I wouldnt/dont hesitate to give someone the feedback they deserve, be it positive or negative. If I make a mistake and get something I wasnt expecting but the seller shipped quickly with fair shipping prices I wont give them anything less than a positive. If some idiot buyer or seller screws up and tries to blackmail me, I wont put up with it. Ill take that undeserved negative just to tarnish their reputation. At the end of the day it isnt a big deal for me.

'73 runabout

Wittsend

Bill,

  No problem with your complaints here.  I have one Neg. in 144 transactions.  Why?   I gave the guy positive feedback for the item, but I commented that, "15 days Texas to California was too long,"  in the comments section.  This guy slams me with a Neg. for that!  I searched the guy out and found the slightest "un-positive" comment had this guy slamming people with a Neg. Ironically I bought the exact same item from a guy in the exact same state (on the same day). This other guy charged me 25% less for shipping and I had the item in 2 days.

Personally I feel the seller should HAVE to give feedback first if they want feedback from the buyer.  As it is now there is a lot of "feedback stalemate" going on. Neither side wants to give feedback fearing that the other might give a Neg. .  But to me if a guy bids, and payed in a timely manner then the first reply should come from the seller.

Other issues regard having to pay Ebay fees for deals gone bad. Twice I tried to sell a Halda Twinmaster stating USA sale only.  Twice, after the fact, Europeans (who were the high bidders) wanted to "finish the deal."  I fought the first time to get my $20 fee back (it sold for about $900), but the second time it was such a hassle I just ate it. 

Tom

77turbopinto

The simple truth was that the ORIGINAL system kept most people from giving negative feedback for NO reason or for their mistake (like not reading details or making stupid assumptions about the items they were buying or selling). I have had buyers say "I read the description after I got the item" and tell me I should pay for the shipping back and/or give them a full refund after addmittling they made the error. I guess I need not mention how I dealt with them.....

I have never been afraid to give bad feedback where it was due.

I THINK ebay should keep the auction details and not discard them after 90 days. This will help to show when a buyers feedback is BS.

AND ANOTHER THING....

Ebay should allow SELLERS to easily see a rating of feedback left for others. I have looked at what some people leave others; its shocking to see where a person has 99.9 or 100%, but half of the feedback they leave is less than positive.

I say all of this, but I still plan to keep using ebay, just not as much.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Smeed

I hate ebay as well. They are the same dirty pigs that own paypal. They really dont give a flying F as long as they get their money.

They did it to stop sellers from blackmailing buyers with negative feedback. That system was broken, yes. This one is no better and I honestly cant imagine how stupid you've got to be not to see that.

'73 runabout

77turbopinto

I was thinking of the very same thing; put the words NEGATIVE oth similar in the feedback.  I bet Ebay will put a stop to that too!!


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

75bobcatv6

actually i agree with you on that, sicne that ive stopped using E-bay for anything. there are other places we can peddle out wares so to speak, some have a membership fee but there are other ways you can do it, use Neutral on feedback and tag your comment into that instead of positive feedback if you use ebay

77turbopinto

IMHO: With ebays new policy that will not allow a seller to give ANYTHING but good feedback to buyers EVEN IF THE BUYER GIVES NEGITIVE F/B FOR NO REASON, there will be less people willing to deal with buyers/ebay (like me).

The thing I worry about is how many sellers will stop selling because of this, and if there are less sellers, there will be less items, and then less buyers..........         I hope I am wrong.

I went to leave feedback for 2 dead-beats, but ebay won't let me.

I still have an issue with ebay and them letting a non-paying bidder leave bad feedback for the seller; as far as I am concerned they are not a 'buyer' and ONLY buyers should be able to leave feedback for a seller.

Sorry for the vent.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.