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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

A good topic

Started by gordie, May 19, 2008, 11:04:00 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

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77turbopinto

Thanks for the kind thoughts in the replies.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Pintony

Well "AS USUAL" I'm comming in late here and feel I need to add to the convo.
Warning NOT Pinto RELATED.
I have had several land line conversations with Bill and found the information he provides very value-able as far and home sales go.
Bill and I have discussed this for More than a couple of hours and I feel like,
"Bill knows his stuff!" Try talking to an attorney sometime. I will guarantee you will recieve a BILL for his services.
So far I have not recieved a bill from Bill.
So that is my 2cents.
Thanks for the help Bill
From Pintony

turbopinto72

 Hi Dave, Lets talk more about pintos.  ;D BTY Please note my sig line.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

77turbopinto

Quote from: gordie on May 20, 2008, 11:28:55 AM
Thanks guys,  I realize now that I was totally out of line and I did not mean to bash anyone.  I know that Bill contributes a lot to the good of the club and has for a long time.  I just did not understand all of the ads and had to get it off of my chest and went about it the wrong way.  Lets move on to Pintos!  Gordie

??

ADDED: I comprehend your 'realization' and 'understanding'.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

gordie

Hi Dave, I have about four trips to make by July 1st to get my stuff out of my garage in LA and move it to St Joseph.  If there is any way that I can get to Tulsa at the right time I will sure try to do it.  Thanks,  Gordie

Norman Bagi

Sorry, I couldn't resist,

I bought this Pontiac below from Bill last year. It was parked next to the other two.

Original74

OK Gordie, let's talk Pinto's!!!

Are you going to be able to make it to Tulsa next month, or are your LA moves going to keep you too busy? Whatever you do, don't drive that 609 miler!

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

earthquake

Quote from: FCANON on May 20, 2008, 09:28:10 AM
  I have been communicating with Gordie as much as possible to get some understanding on his point. As for moving the thread was the best thing to do ...
  With that said... Bill and Gordie have a right to be heard but Gordie has made this a personal blow toward Bill...so I would suggest we watch the name calling and get to the bare bones of the problem Gordie has addressed and move on...

  I'm not with out blame here either. I also end my threads most of the time with "Name Drops" for my Business or seeding of my web address. which is not much different that what Gordie has addressed, So what is your guys opinions.

FrankBoss
I have no problem with Bills ad in his signature.He is a long time and TRUSTED member.It's nice to know you can go to someone you know you can trust,especialy in these times.The problem I have is using posts for this.Frankly,no pun intended I was a little miffed when I clicked on one of your links and it wasn't pinto related.JMHO
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

gordie

Thanks guys,  I realize now that I was totally out of line and I did not mean to bash anyone.  I know that Bill contributes a lot to the good of the club and has for a long time.  I just did not understand all of the ads and had to get it off of my chest and went about it the wrong way.  Lets move on to Pintos!  Gordie

Cookieboystoys

Quote from: FCANON on May 20, 2008, 09:28:10 AM
Gordie has made this a personal blow toward Bill...so I would suggest we watch the name calling and get to the bare bones of the problem Gordie has addressed and move on...

IMHO... Gordie was way out of line! and Bill did as he should have. Locking the original post to stop a bashing and moving the thread hijack when Gordie wouldn't let it go were both appropriate in my eyes. I commend Bill on his restraint and feel he reacted well to what must have been a very upsetting situation. Bill is a valued member with almost 2500 posts, he offers lots of good advise and helps the group in so many ways it would take a 1000+ words to even scratch the surface of his contribution to the FordPinto site.

As far as the Ads are concerned... Other than being on every post I have never seen Bill say anything about real estate on the site and he does state to contact thru PM's. Frank is the one who handles the FordPinto store and prints our T-shirts and other items.... I'm not currently aware of anyone else who offer products/service thru their signature so I would say we're doing extreamly well in those regards.

Hat's off to the admins for working so very hard to keep this a site that I am proud to be a member of free of spam, clutter and crud.

Not that it's required but Frank and Bill have my blessing and I have no issues with their signatures.

Brian
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

chrisf1219

hi to all it doesnt brother me that some of the senior members have extra stuff at the bottom of their posts.i know that frank and bill spend alot of time and effort to keep the club rolling.thanks to frank for the nice tshirt i bought at knotts. so lets get back to talking pinto stuff u know like the chrome alt. i just bought for my 77 wagon that ought add another 5 mph right there ;D chris in ca.
77 wagon auto 2.3  wagons are the best and who knew I like flames on a pinto!!!!

FCANON

  I have been communicating with Gordie as much as possible to get some understanding on his point. As for moving the thread was the best thing to do ...
  With that said... Bill and Gordie have a right to be heard but Gordie has made this a personal blow toward Bill...so I would suggest we watch the name calling and get to the bare bones of the problem Gordie has addressed and move on...

  I'm not with out blame here either. I also end my threads most of the time with "Name Drops" for my Business or seeding of my web address. which is not much different that what Gordie has addressed, So what is your guys opinions.

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Srt

I have no problem with anything that Mr. Rainey has ever posted at this site.  I am what most people may call a 'lurker'.  I do   not own a Pinto but I have owned one in the distant (dark ages?) past and I am very fond of the car and the memories that it provided me.

I also admire the group of people that have kept this site and the Pinto in the minds of those who know a good vehicle when they see it.

My $0.02

the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

r4pinto

I've read this whole post & to be honest found it amusing. Bill knows where he stands in the community and has probably helped most of us from one time or another. I know he has helped me out lots, including sending me an oil pump for my engine. He & his wife Connie have two excellent Pintos, and I have noticed the signature he has. So what? it doesn't cause a problem on here, so I don't see the problem at all. For what Gordie said, I'm sure the thread was just branched off like Bill said, as I've seen it many times on here & it just helps both the organization of the site & viewability. To be honest, I'm on various sites for my assorted hobbies, and this one, has not had the problems with the ads & spam that others have. The administrators do one heck of a job to ensure the best site for all of us to enjoy.

I say, lets just let this die off, as funny as it has been.. That way we can get back to helping each other out in any way we can, and just enjoy the cars like we all normally do.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

77turbopinto

Quote from: gordie on May 19, 2008, 10:21:37 PM
I would like to know who started this topic and used my name as the author as I did not start it.  Would anyone but an administrator have the inside information to start a topic in someone else's name?  I think that whoever did it really went out of bounds and misused their power.  Why don't you guys just let this topic go away instead of making a big issue of it.  We have all made our points and I hope that whoever started this topic will just delete it.

If someone starts a new 'topic' in the middle of someone else's thread it is commonly referred to as "thread hijacking". The Admins and Moderators of this site can "Split" a topic that has been hijacked (where it was hijacked), and start a new topic. The point where it is split starts the "new" topic, and the "author" is the person that started the hijack.

Please note that this is what has occurred here.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

gordie

I would like to know who started this topic and used my name as the author as I did not start it.  Would anyone but an administrator have the inside information to start a topic in someone else's name?  I think that whoever did it really went out of bounds and misused their power.  Why don't you guys just let this topic go away instead of making a big issue of it.  We have all made our points and I hope that whoever started this topic will just delete it.

77turbopinto

APN: You have your thread back.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

77turbopinto

If his comment was made to ANY other member it would have been removed and MUCH MORE. I did not lock it to silence him or anyone, but to keep it 'as is' and keep it from getting out of hand (like the PMs and emails).

There are some members that would have been upset if I just deleted it; I am in a 'no-win situation' with it.

Thanks,
Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

apintonut

well as this is my topic that has been hijacked.     im going to give my 2 cents.
and well bill is right about where he has his ad that is what that option is  there for to give info on the user what ever he choses to let people know about him. (which dose not hafta be viewed. it can be turned off under the profile part of this page)

BUT bill u should not have locked his thread. but just deafened your (use of that option) position and im sure it would be less of an issue than it now is. 


ps i read gordie's add way before it was blocked and chose not to reply
74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.

gordie


77turbopinto

Quote from: gordie on May 19, 2008, 04:01:14 PM
Thanks for your reply.  I never used your name in my complaint.  Of course you have gotten lots of business from your real estate ad in the Pinto site.  Advertising works but I do not think that it has any place here.  It just encourages others to do the same and I am surprised that no one has complained before.  I have made my point and you can block me all you want and as far as I am concerned the case is closed and you will not hear any more about it from me.  Gordie

No, you did not use my name, but you did give enough information for everyone to know EXACTLY who you were talking about. You even posted what you intended to be an insult to me and my wife! BTW: Her daily driver IS a Pontiac, why would that an issue? (Oh, wait, as far as YOU are concerned the case is closed; nevermind).

Welcome to the board.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

gordie

Thanks for your reply.  I never used your name in my complaint.  Of course you have gotten lots of business from your real estate ad in the Pinto site.  Advertising works but I do not think that it has any place here.  It just encourages others to do the same and I am surprised that no one has complained before.  I have made my point and you can block me all you want and as far as I am concerned the case is closed and you will not hear any more about it from me.  Gordie

77turbopinto

Quote from: gordie on May 19, 2008, 11:04:00 AM
I think that there is more enthusiasm in this club than any other that I have been involved in.  Keep that enthusiasm going!  There is one area of the club that I think some people take advantage of the club through and that is using strictly commercial messages that are not Pinto related to further their own commercial interest.  There is an example of that ad in this blog.  I started a topic called "Real estate salesman ad nauseum" and promptly got it blocked so no one could give their opinion.  Maybe the club officers do not care but I thank that a precedent should be set early on or there will be lots more ads infiltrating the site.

Quote from: gordie on May 19, 2008, 12:58:11 PM
Well, I just figured it out!  Those many real estate ads are part of an administrators email address and as an administrate I guess he can use the site for his personal real estate ads if he wants to but I still do not think that that was what was intended when this great site was started.  If the other officers and administrators turn their heads the other way and ignore the constant advertisements who am I to complain but it still bothers me everytime I have to look at his ads.

I was the one that locked that thread and put the sticky on it. I could have done a bunch of other things too. I put it there as a perfect example of what not to do (we can go over 'thread hijacking' some other time). If anyone has an issue with another member it is best to: 1) Find out the entire story and get the correct information (first). 2) Contact the person directly (privately). 3) Don't insult people in your public posts.

In one respect you are wrong, there were comments made; I was PMed and emailed quite a bit!!

You have the power to block that area of all the posts you view.

I have helped a bunch of people on this site with information and advice about real estate, as well as working for some directly (All done in PMs, and by them contacting me). IMHO: The last thing anyone on this site should ever hear is "If I had known what you did for a living I would have called you" (no matter what they do for a living).

BTW: I had that in all my posts well before I became an Admin.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

FCANON

forward me a copy of the Email please...or any others you get from this site...I don't get real estate emails like your talking about and I would like to get this fixxed asap...

No one gets liberty's to spam unless its Pinto related...even then its frond upon....

FrankBoss

PS: Gordie dont forget to put you location in the PCCA map!
My Email is fcanon@aol.com
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

gordie

Well, I just figured it out!  Those many real estate ads are part of an administrators email address and as an administrate I guess he can use the site for his personal real estate ads if he wants to but I still do not think that that was what was intended when this great site was started.  If the other officers and administrators turn their heads the other way and ignore the constant advertisements who am I to complain but it still bothers me everytime I have to look at his ads.

earthquake

I agree with gordie.A couple of other sites I go to make it really hard to become a member just to combat this problem.It would be nice if we as members could deal with this our self so as not to have to go the same route.This site is supposed to be about pintos not selling real estate,viagra,or what have you.Why the subject was locked I can't understand.
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

gordie

I think that there is more enthusiasm in this club than any other that I have been involved in.  Keep that enthusiasm going!  There is one area of the club that I think some people take advantage of the club through and that is using strictly commercial messages that are not Pinto related to further their own commercial interest.  There is an example of that ad in this blog.  I started a topic called "Real estate salesman ad nauseum" and promptly got it blocked so no one could give their opinion.  Maybe the club officers do not care but I thank that a precedent should be set early on or there will be lots more ads infiltrating the site.