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1980 cruising wagon ralley

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Mini Mark IV one of 2 delux lg. sunroof models
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Pinto in Maine for sail...solid body

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1972 Pinto SCCA BS race car

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Preferred cams?

Started by 2point3turbo, February 25, 2008, 12:26:14 AM

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2point3turbo

Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

2point3turbo

Thanks. I already have most the files and research done. Its just getting the MAF I want to use and getting it done. I will check those links out. Thanks again.
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

map351

73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

2point3turbo

Well I got the cam installed but have to do some more work on the upper to fit my 65mm TB. After that the n2o will get installed and off to the races. I also have a tweecer that I used to up my injector size from 35lb to 42lb'ers. I hope to be closer to the 400hp range before n2o but that will take some dyno time and lots of tuning. Next up is the MAF conversion with the tweecer to make sure the 400hp range is do'able. I will post my times and hp when I get there. I wanted to test the RR against the Boport cam on the dyno but time is money and a dyno is not cheap. March 30th I will be at the track to see what it can do.
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

turbo74pinto

you beat me to it!!  this guy is on www.foureyedpride.com.  im a member there also for the 2.3/svo section of the forum.  a ranger roller with good boost should put you at 350 as long as everything else is up to snuff.
ive read a lot on those boport cams.  they have a couple write ups on turboford.net.  i have the essy 2277 but have yet to run the car.  i would have bought a boport cam if it was out when i got the essy.  the last write up i read was that the stage 3 cam put out something like 40 more hp but 10ft/lb less.  i read that boports cams are much more streetable than the a237 and the essy 2277.
Quote from: map351 on February 27, 2008, 10:22:40 PM
Chassis type: 84 Capri RS Turbo, CHE rear arms, daily driven.

short block mods/compression ratio/displacement: Stock Short Block
head/port work/valve size: Iron head, Big valves, pocket porting
cam specs/degrees adv-ret: Ranger Roller
intake/throttle body: Rotated, gutted upper / Ported lower (Bob Lee)/ stock TB
intercooler: Large NPR
nitrous system/shot size:None
exhaust manifold: Ported E6
turbo: SVO Style T-3 (.63 turbine/.60 cold side)
wastegate: Stock
exhaust size: 3" downpipe, 3" to bumper with Aerochamber muffler
engine management: PE, Mallory ignition, 2 step for launch
a/f ratio, total timing, boost: Stock tuning, 10 degree base timing, 22 psi boost
fuel octane/brand/leaded or unleaded: pump Sunoco 94 unleaded, 1qt Torco additive per 16 gallons of gas
hp@rpm:
trq@rpm:
flex plate/flywheel: Stock
convertor/clutch: Ram power grip clutch, PP
transmission: TC 5 speed
rear/ratio/tire type/tire size: 3:55 Rear, Hoosier Quick Time Pro's, 26/9.50-16
race weight without driver: 3200#'s WITH driver 3475#
ET/MPH: 1/8th 7.86 at 86.32, 1/4 12.38 at 112.78
It's never been on a Dyno.
With this combo a 2500# pinto will be in the 11s


Take a job big or small, do it right or not at all.

turbo toy

Quote from: turbopinto72 on February 28, 2008, 07:06:28 PM
You missed Marty's Sig.
Marty Buth
NHRA J/FIA National Record Holder

No wonder I couldn't figure it out. Thats a European class right ?
So when you posted the thread about the 86 Tbird and it said " Last Saturday my 86 T-bird ran a personal best of 12.205" it was actually Marty's Tbird?  So Bob has the Capri, Marty has the Tbird and you have the 1980 Pinto ? Just trying to sort it all out  :)

Actually, the 80 Pinto is "my" daily driver and those numbers were done early on in the mods to the car. It's now a low 10 second daily driver and still gets 23 MPG.

2point3turbo

Man I just made a complete butt of myself on the local site here. I was trying to explain the power the 2.3t has and got reemed a new one about how they are not capable of what they actually are. I must say Honda guys are pretty dumb. I hope this cam does me good cause now I have to defend the 2.3's honor. I went a bit overboard but hey... I have pride you know!
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

CHEAPRACER

I just bought a set of his valves...NICE :hypno:
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

turbopinto72

You missed Marty's Sig.
Marty Buth
NHRA J/FIA National Record Holder

No wonder I couldn't figure it out. Thats a European class right ?
So when you posted the thread about the 86 Tbird and it said " Last Saturday my 86 T-bird ran a personal best of 12.205" it was actually Marty's Tbird?  So Bob has the Capri, Marty has the Tbird and you have the 1980 Pinto ? Just trying to sort it all out  :)
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

map351

Quote from: turbopinto72 on February 28, 2008, 05:57:50 PM
"Here's another.

Last Saturday my 86 T-bird ran a personal best of 12.205. The head is totally unmodified for NHRA stock eliminator racing. Stock valve diameter with stock 45 degree seat angles. Stock intake manifold unmodified. Stock lift cam and completely stock T-3. Running an SDS computer, VP C16 fuel, and a C4 tranny. The car weighs 3025 pounds. The air measured 2126 feet of density altitude and a 7 MPH head wind. The 60 foot was a personal best of 1.597. If not for the tail wind it would have been in the 12 teens."

What class are you running in ? I ask because if you are running in either Q/S, V/S or W/S class you are any where from 1.75 sec to 4.5 sec under your index? which would put you ( running in Q/S ) about 1.25 Sec under the world record.

You missed Marty's Sig.
Marty Buth
NHRA J/FIA National Record Holder
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

martin0660

Quote from: map351 on February 28, 2008, 08:16:39 AM
Bob Myers it's my X RS turbo Capri. Bob is a Master tuner! I don't think the weight is correct more like 3300#.

Master tuner :D lol. yeah, masterbat....errr never mind.

To be more specific, we weighted the car on 4 corner scales and it was a few pounds shy of 3200 (like 319X??) with ME in the car (I'm no small guy). When the car was weighed, it was at 1/2 tank of gas, and I always race it full, so add about 8 gallons fuel weight, plus my helmet, and whatnot and its a solid 3200#'s plus a little ;)

Here is a video of the car on the 12.38 pass. This was actually bracket racing, and the sad part is, I broke out on a 12.40 dial. I really havent pushed it as hard since, been pretty happy to dial it in at 12.50 and go lots of rounds ;)

http://good-times.webshots.com/video/3048531450066453426udKGVS

Back to the topic, I actually tried an A237 cam in the car this summer. Effectively, it never ET'd any better, but did pick up a little MPH. All of a sudden, the car started to get hard on parts. I got frustrated and pulled that cam and went back to my tried and true ranger roller. We ran mostly 1/8th mile at the end of the season (long story) but I ended up running both ET and MPH equal to my best ever (with either cam) with some more cam timing adjustments.

As Mike said, I have been traction limited to some extent, and destroyed the rear end to close the season. The car will be back this year with a solid rear, and 9" wide tires (8.5 last year). The goal is to getmy junk into the 11's on a T3 and Ranger roller cam. Everyone says it cant be done at my weight, I see that as a challenge :D

Bob Myers

.

turbopinto72

"Here's another.

Last Saturday my 86 T-bird ran a personal best of 12.205. The head is totally unmodified for NHRA stock eliminator racing. Stock valve diameter with stock 45 degree seat angles. Stock intake manifold unmodified. Stock lift cam and completely stock T-3. Running an SDS computer, VP C16 fuel, and a C4 tranny. The car weighs 3025 pounds. The air measured 2126 feet of density altitude and a 7 MPH head wind. The 60 foot was a personal best of 1.597. If not for the tail wind it would have been in the 12 teens."

What class are you running in ? I ask because if you are running in either Q/S, V/S or W/S class you are any where from 1.75 sec to 4.5 sec under your index? which would put you ( running in Q/S ) about 1.25 Sec under the world record.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

2point3turbo

Those are good numbers on pretty much a stock motor. I am getting excited to get the Capri on the road with all my new stuff installed. I will have to stop being a little girl and go to the track this year. Does anyone know what the 73 Capri weighs in at?
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

map351

Quote from: turbopinto72 on February 27, 2008, 11:16:57 PM
Chassis type: 84 Capri RS Turbo, CHE rear arms, daily driven.

Who's car is this ? ITs nice looking for sure. I use to own a 79 Turbo RS Capri, Black on Black with the green striping. I would give a bunch to have it back.
BTY I estimate that that car should have 389 rear wheel Hp or about 448 Hp at the flywheel. Now, Im not doubting that that car is as quick as the claims but for the list of modifications you listed I can not see where the horsepower comes from. Maybe some more details on how the owner made over 400 Hp on those parts?

Bob Myers it's my X RS turbo Capri. Bob is a Master tuner! I don't think the weight is correct more like 3300#.
This year with the addition of the 55Lb inj and the new axles and some more tire it's in the solid 11s.. and it's a daily driver 25+ MPG.

Here's another.

Last Saturday my 86 T-bird ran a personal best of 12.205. The head is totally unmodified for NHRA stock eliminator racing. Stock valve diameter with stock 45 degree seat angles. Stock intake manifold unmodified. Stock lift cam and completely stock T-3. Running an SDS computer, VP C16 fuel, and a C4 tranny. The car weighs 3025 pounds. The air measured 2126 feet of density altitude and a 7 MPH head wind. The 60 foot was a personal best of 1.597. If not for the tail wind it would have been in the 12 teens.

Marty
NHRA J/FIA National Record Holder


Curtis Hensley
1980 Pinto

short block/rods/compression ratio/displacement:Stock
head/port work/valve size:Iron,hacked up home ported by owner,1.89/1.59 stainless
cam specs/degrees adv-ret:RR straight up
intake/throttle body:40bob upper and lower with TC throttle body
intercooler:Reworked TC
nitrous system/shot size:None
exhaust manifold:Stock E6
turbo:T3/T4 57 Trim
wastegate:Stock internal
exhaust size:2 1/4 DP and 3" muffler
engine management:LA3
a/f ratio, total timing, boost:Don't know,24*locked,26 PSI
fuel octane/brand/leaded or unleaded:110 BP
hp@rpm:?
trq@rpm:?
flex plate/flywheel:Stock
convertor/clutch:Stock
transmission:88 TC-T5
rear/ratio/tire type/tire size:8 inch,4.62 and spool,MT ET street,11.5 X 28
race weight without driver:2360 pounds-2525 with driver
ET/MPH:7.62 @ 94.1 MPH and 1.57 sixty foot (11.80 1/4)

Just Amazing...
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

2point3turbo

It seems by all the feedback he has that his stuff is on the up and up. He does like the alum head but who has the money to buy one??? Not me!
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

turbopinto72

Nice site. Looks like he does nice work too. I see he likes to use the Essy Al head.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

2point3turbo

Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

2point3turbo

Turboford, he is on there and has a site I think is Boport engineering or something like that. He ports and I think also makes heads and obviously cams too. Everyone on there loves his stuff.
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

turbopinto72

Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

2point3turbo

I was going to get that one but I went with Bo's cam for now. I have heard the 2277 is a great cam but I dont have that much work done to the head and just wanted something to swap in with little modding. I was told by Bo that at 10psi and my setup that it should give me an easy 30-50hp gain. I hope he is right. I should get it in the next few days so I will post my thoughts and results of it here. I wish I had the money to waste and get my car dyno'd before and after but its not cheap here. $200 is alot of extras for our cars vs the price of 2 dyno sessions.
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

turbopinto72

Quote from: turbo toy on February 25, 2008, 07:39:28 AM
AND------------For a hot street/strip the esslinger 2277 is a good choice. For a race cam, I like the Esslinger 2232.5.

To try and answer your question, I am using the Esslinger 2235 roller cam . the specs are
234 dur @ .050 and 585 Lift with a 111.5 centerline. This is a real nice cam that has a street/strip profile but more suited for a big valved aluminum head. the 2232.5 is also a good cam but as classified above its pretty much a race cam with 269 dur @.050 and 620 lift. With any cam you pick try and keep the centerline profile between 109 and 112. 109 will be really lopeing and a little rough for the street though. The 2277 as referenced above would be a good multi use cam and would allow you to have great street drivability and get the most out of the combo I think you are looking at.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

turbopinto72

Chassis type: 84 Capri RS Turbo, CHE rear arms, daily driven.

Who's car is this ? ITs nice looking for sure. I use to own a 79 Turbo RS Capri, Black on Black with the green striping. I would give a bunch to have it back.
BTY I estimate that that car should have 389 rear wheel Hp or about 448 Hp at the flywheel. Now, Im not doubting that that car is as quick as the claims but for the list of modifications you listed I can not see where the horsepower comes from. Maybe some more details on how the owner made over 400 Hp on those parts?
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

2point3turbo

I completly agree that a car with those mods could go that fast but I was saying that I could not due to no experience. I am just getting the car up and going so I have yet to put the boost into play. I do however plan to get to the point where my car will be tuned to run 20psi when I want it to and 15psi as a daily driven car. I just dont know if I want to spend all the money needed to get a Bamafuel or tweecer of my own. The cam raped my wallet until I owed it money. I also spent a bunch on paint and other mods. LA3, adj cam gear (which I cant use on this cam cause he made it to run best straight up), and n20 which I am not sure if I want to run it in this car or save for the Pinto. What would be a guess on my setup at 15psi and all my mods for hp?
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

map351

Chassis type: 84 Capri RS Turbo, CHE rear arms, daily driven.

short block mods/compression ratio/displacement: Stock Short Block
head/port work/valve size: Iron head, Big valves, pocket porting
cam specs/degrees adv-ret: Ranger Roller
intake/throttle body: Rotated, gutted upper / Ported lower (Bob Lee)/ stock TB
intercooler: Large NPR
nitrous system/shot size:None
exhaust manifold: Ported E6
turbo: SVO Style T-3 (.63 turbine/.60 cold side)
wastegate: Stock
exhaust size: 3" downpipe, 3" to bumper with Aerochamber muffler
engine management: PE, Mallory ignition, 2 step for launch
a/f ratio, total timing, boost: Stock tuning, 10 degree base timing, 22 psi boost
fuel octane/brand/leaded or unleaded: pump Sunoco 94 unleaded, 1qt Torco additive per 16 gallons of gas
hp@rpm:
trq@rpm:
flex plate/flywheel: Stock
convertor/clutch: Ram power grip clutch, PP
transmission: TC 5 speed
rear/ratio/tire type/tire size: 3:55 Rear, Hoosier Quick Time Pro's, 26/9.50-16
race weight without driver: 3200#'s WITH driver 3475#
ET/MPH: 1/8th 7.86 at 86.32, 1/4 12.38 at 112.78
It's never been on a Dyno.
With this combo a 2500# pinto will be in the 11s

73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

CHEAPRACER

I think a true comparison would be to install the cam and do nothing else. It seems like every time someone does a test it includes the saying " oh and I also changed _ _ _ _ _ along with the cam but that shouldn't make that much difference. 

And why only 10lbs? Add some good gas and boost that baby, you'll probably gain 50hp just by adding 5 or 6 lbs.
Cheapracer is my personality but you can call me Jim '74 Pinto, stock 2.3 turbo, LA3, T-5, 8" 3:55 posi, Former (hot) cars: '71 383 Cuda, 67 440 Cuda, '73 340 Dart, '72 396 Vega, '72 327 El Camino, '84 SVO, '88 LX 5.0

2point3turbo

With this car I dont have track goals. It is a personal accomplishment to reach 350hp in my Capri. I will build a Pinto for the track and will have a different goal for that one. For now I just want 350hp or more. I think that was just a suggestion he was making. Personally I dont think a RR could ever get me into the 11 sec range with its speed and rpm limitations. Maybe with n2o but I dont want to waste time tuning for a limited cam. I have the RR in now and was not impressed with its top end so I bought a better one that keeps producing power over 6000rpm and proven to do so. I have yet to even hit the track so 11's probably wouldnt happen for me with 400hp. :accident:
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

turbopinto72

Quote from: map351 on February 27, 2008, 06:54:11 PM
You can do that with a RR & a T-3..
Spend your time & money on valves & porting you'll be in the deep 11s.

I hate to sound like a party pooper but an rr and T3 + valves and porting for about 98% of the people will not get you into the deep 11s. I'm sure you have done this for quite some time as I have but I feel that this statement is a bit misleading. There will be a significant amount of other things to do  before your car will dip into the 11's. You can get the math to show you that a 2300lb car with 300hp will run an 11.6 1/4 Et. but actually doing it is quite a different matter. The car has to hook, have the proper gearing, shift correctly and pull through the lights among other things. Thats worth a ton of trips to the track not to mention a bunch of dyno time to tune the car correctly. I think a more conservative ET to shoot for would be high to mid 12's with the combo I see you using.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

2point3turbo

I have stock valves but the head is ported. I dont know what hp I am at now but my goal is small so I can tear it apart when I hit the dyno. I still have to finish my header but other then that I am done with porting both head and intake. I also have a 65mm tb and intercooler to hook up. I am only running 10psi now but will get it up there as I go along. I dont have tuning options yet but a friend has a tweecer I can play with then burn me a chip.
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!

map351

You can do that with a RR & a T-3..
Spend your time & money on valves & porting you'll be in the deep 11s.
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

2point3turbo

Goal hp? I want to be in the 350rwhp range without n2o. I am getting up there but I needed a cam to go anywhere close to my goal. Once I get the cam installed and running good again, I am going to the dyno to see what I have at that point. Hope its a big number.
Must have more POWER!!!! Gimmee Gimmee Gimmee!!