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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

What are your thoughts on the regional meet offerings?

Started by Original74, July 13, 2007, 09:36:09 PM

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popbumper

OK I'll bite....first reply to any post. The thought of regional meets is fabulous, as it attempts to satisfy a widespread audience! If in fact there is enough interest and willingness on participants parts to attend these shows, why not?

Personally, had I gotten involved sooner this year, I would have made a STRONG effort to get to Tulsa, just to get a taste of the show, the cars, and the atmosphere. Good grief, it's easy to vote Tulsa (since I live near Dallas), but don't forego other opportunities that can satisfy folks outside of the central area. I think that as a "growing entity", the PCCA needs to spread itself far and wide to gain membership, enthusiasm and participation. Keep it up!

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

78pinto

Yes i've been absent for a bit...not much computer time thats for sure. Between the house, car, oldest son (17....don't even ask) but i think it's under control for now.  I'll be yanking to engine yet again....(rear main seal and oil pan dipstick install) but that'll be next month.  Driveway will be cement....i hate ashpalt!  It's taken a week so far as the builder (house) screwed up our front grade and will have to redo it.  Good idea High_Horse!  Scott, the clips area is a good thing!  Jeff
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

High_Horse

78Pinto,
     I will bet you are glad the rigmarole is over....it takes a year to move into a house but it only takes 2 seconds to blacktop a driveway. ;D I was watching your videos and I'm thinking you need a couple of little magnetic signs that say...EXPERAMENTAL. Then you won't need a license.....To fly.

                                                                                    High_Horse
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

Scott Hamilton

Hey Jeff!!!!

Welcome back!

FYI.. the Pinto Clips area was your idea finally come to life.. (after 2 years!)..

Anyway... glad you are still there!!!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

78pinto

hey all i'm back from the dead.  Been a busy summer for me and i'm glad it's over.  We are moved in and settled (driveway getting concete next week) but i'm finally free.  I'm 99 % sure my family will be attending the next years meet in Carlisle (if its going to be there) with the Pinto in tow behind my new truck.  You have no idea how bad i'd love to attend these get togethers...hope turnout is good so i can meet all you good people. 
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

Scott Hamilton

Pinto Clips has a 200MB limit so it really depends on how you compress the file as to how long it can be..

Have fun!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

High_Horse

I'd like to do a video......something taken from the back of a pickup....the cars come up to stage a formation ( double lane) and then pass. What is our max video time limit here??? I could wear my CaveMan mask. :fastcar:

                                                                                            High_Horse

                                                                                             
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

Pintopower

Hey guys, this other website I belong to (http://www.131mirafiori.com/) posted a video they made of a meet that they had in Ireland. The added some music and put it on utube! We need to do that, but add people talking and introducing themselves. That would be so cool! Check it out here, its simple but you get the idea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0vLu10rruU

This way, next year those that were to far from some shows can still see who the people are and what they are like! I think that it would make talking to people on here more personal.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

FCANON

I also think that awards are fun to deal out .. but I think its the quality of the people that is most important. If one person welcomes people to a car show  most  will not be so willing to attend, but with other activities based around a show you should have more attendance. Cruise or BBQ....

I personally don't get into the car show thing, And some people dont like Racing.. But to find common ground with other pinto owners not matter the venue is a  challenge. I guess we need to think about things other than trophies and prizes to make people more welcome to our events.

I'm always willing to give door prizes to all Pinto's that attend the PCCA events.

I did like the raffle thing. but it was so dam slow.
the Pinto knowledge  game was more than fun.

But I get your point.. My cars all have dints and chips in them Some shows aren't worth entering to me but we have to start somewhere. I might have to mow my 80 and have a big butt Picnic. or a meeting at a national or state park, and do a cruise in.

The car show venue is just so easy to handle, Tulsa did have alot more to affer than some other shows.

FrankBoss
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

Pintopower

   Hey guys, I wanted to clarify a few things about the Knott's show (West Coast Meet). I was very proud of turbopinto72 when he was able to get us a class for next year. That was a wonderful thing that he did for the West Coast meet. Also, the breakfast quiz that he put on was a total blast! We all had a great time and I love the shirt that I won at the event, in fact I wear it to every show to which I bring a Pinto. I also realize that it costs a great deal of time and money to make the show and the events at the show possible. For example, Barth Hamilton (no username here as he has no idea what a computer is) and his wife Virginia host 3 - 4 shows a year at their house that are fully catered. I know that is not cheap, but he does it because he loves doing it. The time it takes to contact all the Southern California people to keep the community together, and the cost of the meals provided the day before the Knott's show and at the show are a small price to pay when you see all your friends, new faces and dozens of Pintos. I do this because I love it, and that's it. We should all do it because we love it; that's the only reason to. MY explanation for not wanting awards at the Knotts show is the three owners that gave me excuses why their cars were not good enough to win. Or, worse yet, a family that I have been talking to for 5 years to get their car out to the show told me they were glad their car wasn't there because it was no where near good enough after watching all the other cars get awards. I do not want this to drive people away from bringing their cars to the show. All the cars present are loved, they all make their owners smile and they all hold priceless memories. When I heard people making excuses for their cars appearance, it made me feel as if now the show had taken a new direction. I want to see beautiful low mile cars and multi-million dollar cars at the show! I also want to see 389,724 mile pintos there that went through 9 owners, 18 kids, 1.2 million visits to the grocery store and countless rock chips.

   Turbopinto72 has done innumerable things for the club and I want him to know that it was MUCH appreciated. I tell every one how we are going to have a class at Fabulous Fords this year and he did all the work with the council make it happen. I know that every one appreciated the gifts (again, I love that pinto shirt and all the stuff that I got in Oklahoma!). I just do not want the Pinto club to turn into the Capri club. They introduced awards at a show a few years ago. It was fun at first, but slowly attendance dwindled, no one called each other any more, they didn't hang out and now they see each other once a year for the awards at the Knott's show. For example: They started with 8 cars - then 15 - then 25 - then 34, then awards were introduced - then the number of cars declined to 25 - then 19. There are few project cars, no more drivers, just finished pretty cars.... what happened to the other cars? Junked? Crushed? Is the owner ashamed? Or can they just not afford to restore them? Maybe, they don't want to be identified as a looser year after year. This is not our goal. Out goal is to make everyone feel welcomed and increase the number of cars each year.

   I do understand that giving is better for the giver than the receiver. Turbopinto72 and Scott Hamilton are 100% right when they say that giving is great but from what I have seen and heard (from the capri club president, and people out here), giving awards may have an adverse effect. I get dozens of calls a week from the 250 Pinto owners in my mailing list and I am just relaying what I have gotten from several disparaged owners. We have been increasing our numbers every year with some pretty cars and some daily drivers. I have worked far to hard to have the "rough around the edges" pintos stop showing up because their owners feel they are not award quality. I feel that as long as you love your car, they are ALL great. If giving is what we want to do, then there are several other ways to go about it. A raffle can give dozens of great prizes and does not favor anyone's taste. Goodie bags are a great. The quiz at breakfast was a BLAST and I definitely want to do that again. Give as much as you want, but let us not hurt anyone's feelings in the process by not getting an award.

P.S.
I cannot thank Scott Hamilton and turbopinto72 (and Frank, Dave, Pintony, Harley, Bill, Barth and those who I am forgetting) enough for what they have done for the community. That will never be forgotten.
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Pintony

Hello Brad, Scott, & all the PCCA members.,
Maybe the point was..
There "WAS" a goal at Knottsberry to get our "OWN" classification.
"PINTO class" We needed 25 Pintos to show at knotts to get our own class.
Well in 2007 WE as a group did it!
Pintopower was a BIG part of making this happen.
Some members feel that their Pinto is not worthy of bringing to a show...
Pintopower made many phone calls to get even the most unfinished "FRANKENSTIEN PINTO" Pinto to the Knotts show.
I can see both sides as I am just a Participant at the knotts show.
Pintopower is worried about the TOTAL numbers. &
That some may feel left-out because they did not receive an award.

That is my opinion... I MAY BE WRONG!!!!! ;D

I was at the Tulsa show and I'm sure that Pintopower liked getting the awards and prizes.
Y-NOT?!!! Like Scott says "It's FUN" seeing how the members react when their name is called.
I know I was in GREAT appreciation at getting the nod at Tulsa.
Again I go to the meets for the "People" not the cars or the awards.
AND let me tell you it is worth every penny I spent to see everyone again!!!
My goal is to make a NEW friend at every event...

I'm not going to take sides in this debate.
So do not read anything into what I say.

It is your SHOW California guys U do what U want.
I'll just show up and see some COOL cars, eat some fresh picked citrus and enjoy the California sun... Hopefully I will meet some NEW Cool friends while I'm there???
From Pintony




Scott Hamilton

Brad has a real good point...  In my opinion, giving awards is joyful for the giver. I would much rather give many awards for many reasons because it brings joy to my heart than to be told it might be looked upon badly by some. I would really want to give everyone awards or freebies at each Meet to strengthen our group and create memories (the brief case award) for years to come.

The bottom line is that it's fun for the Giver as much as the receiver & I know that Brad, Dave, Harley, Frank and Bill (I'm sure I forgot to mention someone.. forgive me!) are all real happy about what they are helping to create and enjoy the giving very much. Heck, even Tony helped me out at the PA meet when I was kept away by giving out the prizes and creating some fun thing to do.. Tony even brings parts to give away to all...

Giving is real FUN, let's not take that away from your Admins and friends,,,  K?
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

turbopinto72

 I would like to address Pintopowers statement about the awards. Its to bad that you feel like the awards are a sham and that it pits big buck cars against low budget cars etc etc. Actually nothing could be farther from the truth but your entitled to your opinion. After the Knotts show I was told that you did not like or appreciate the awards that were handed out and that were voted on by the pinto group. FYI, I spent my own money on those awards as well as Scott Hamilton donating the gift awards and Frank donating the shirts. As far as big buck cars I can tell you that I have more money in my car that anyone else who was there. I did not get an award nor did I get a gift. What I did get was a complaint. Nearly all of the participants were happy with the program whether they received an award or a gift. I personally thought the event went real well, until I heard of your complaint. As I did not receive any help in organizing this I feel that your complaint about the awards/gifts was unfairly leveled against me personally. Most people know that I have put a large amount of my time and money into this site including the window stickers and registry. Your post says " lets not ruin that by testing everyones different tastes etc". I have an Idea, why don't we ask the participants of these events if they enjoy receiving awards and gifts and let the majority rule.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Original74

Fabulous post and what enthusiasm! That's what makes this hobby so rewarding, the fabulous folks you meet.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

Pintopower

Hey Guys. I love going to all of these meets because the Pinto guys are just a great group of people. I was fortunate enough to be able to offer a place to hang out for the Knotts meet and just had a ball at Original74's place. Meeting with the people is what this website is all about. Cookieboy is right on with having smaller scale shows and meets with the guys that live around you. We have 3 or 4 BBQ's a year with the Pinto guys that live around here. We have had BBQ's/Cruises as small as 10 cars and as large as 22! Of course, we are a bit spoiled out here but never the less, its nice to see every one a few times a year. We also invite other groups such as the capri club and have been invited to several Fiat club meets. Now, all the small meets just hype us up more for the national meets, which we all love! In regards to those, I have to agree with Pintony about the awards. As great as it was to get the "Best Wagon" award at the Tulsa show, I couldn't imagine how sad I would have been had I not gotten it. On the other hand, RacerX's (thats not his user name, inside joke) Purple Wagon is a Beauty and High_House had a kick butt V-8 wagon. To me its hard to say who has a better car, whose is the crowds choice, etc. I think all the cars were great. From the rusty weathered but loved original cars to the fully tubbed and caged V8 race cars. They are all different and they are all great. Thats just me though, I have never been one for competition, ESPECIALLY among friends, which i condsider all of you on this site. I mean, thats what we all are, like when I met High_horse, Cookieboy and Pintaro, we started talking like we knew each other for years. It was the love of the cars and knowing that we were in an environment where everyone had at least one thing in common: Love for the Pinto. Lets not ruin that by testing everyones different tastes, different ideas, and bank account size on rating who has the best pinto. If we are going to do that, lets join that Yellow 65 mustang club that Pintony mentioned. I hope I did not step on anyones toes at all, but I dont want anything to hurt this great group and this website that Scott has put together. Thanks guys!
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

turbowagonman

Well on the meet in Tulsa, I'm ASSuming (I hate that word) that's Tulsa Oklahoma?? Well I live in Cleveland, Ohio and that would be some distance to travel, I'd be more than willing to do the trip though, next summer, if my car gives me a Fuzzy feeling when I do a smaller trip. I know that I wouldn't make a winter meet though, due to the Salt they use on the roads here in Ohio. My car has never seen Salt and I don't want to expose it to that kind of a Carsinigin!!! so I don't think I'd make that meet if it was past the month of November. I do plan on making a serious road trip next Summer/Fall, where I end up I don't even know. I also "Plan" on doing Carlisle next year even if it isn't a Pinto Meet, I have a bunch of Mustang buddy's that do that every year so if anything goes arry I'll be in a group of cars to help me with anything if it comes up.

turbowagonman
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/

hellfirejim

As a second time around Pinto owner I like the idea of a National meet like Tulsa with 2 other regional meets on East coast and on the West coast wth perhaps a southern meet in the winter.  If these were set then we could arrange time off etc.  

What I really like is the thought of local meets.  Since the map is down I don't know how many people are in the midwest region as an example.  OR even who is in Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, Indiana area for a get together.  These smaller groups could meet more often on a 1 day deal as it would not be too far to travel.  If mine is not running at the time I would surely tow it there just to share in the get together.

Anyway I am enjoying the distinction of owning a piece of history that you don't see going down the street every day.

jim
It's a good day to be alive!
PCCA Pinto Number #385


phils toys

Regional meets are nice as everyone has a chance to attend one or more each year. In my case Carlisle is best  for the east coast, but those who live in the southern states have a great distance to travel. That is not to say those who attend other meet  do not travel  a great distance or that i would not attend Carlisle even if it were not a sanctioned event. I feel the east coast could be moved from time to time.
I also feel that with the  40th ann of the Pinto comming soon I vote for a National meet. that will give all of us plenty of time to prepair to make it to that meet.   
Phils toys 
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Original74

Nice to hear your thoughts Mark. I like the idea of a winter meet in Florida. Maybe someone will investigate that area and volunteer to set it up. I don't know if there are any big Ford meets in the winter months in Florida, but that would be nice. It always helps, but is not mandatory, to hook up with a large meet that already draws a crowd.

Welcome to the site and have fun!

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

unmarkedcarr

Being kinda new to all this, I'd never thought of a Pinto meet.  I think it's a great idea overall and agree with most of you that several regional meets would be better than one.  It's a big country and some of our cars don't purr quite the way they used to.  It'd be great to see one in Florida or Georgia or something like that.  I'd try to attend.  Maybe a winter meet since the other areas of the country could be too cold or icy for most folk and it would be cooler for those of us without A/C's in our ponies. 

Just my thoughts.  Great job to all the organizers out there who make Pinto ownership fun!

Mark

pintoman

I agree with High Horse.If we agree on a national get together it should be in Tulsa.I also like the regional.I don;t know about the other shows but Carlisle is a great show for our Pinto's and for Fords.Carlisle had way over 2600 cars this year,so there is plenty of things to do and see.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

High_Horse

Well....I am going to do it.
I respsectfully suggest that if there is going to be a major US Pinto invasion at a single location...that it be in Tulsa. At Daves house. Reasons...Central location...4 day venue on fathers day ergo road racing,drag racing and car show, Dave has a big street and it is the latest show in the year to allow for planning.
Ok....I said it.

                                                          High_Horse
Started with a Bobcat wagon. Then a Cruising wagon. Now a Chocolate brown 77 wagon. I will enjoy this car for a long time. I'm in. High_Horse

redmustangman3

I like the idea of 3 (or 4?) Regional meets, as it gives more Pinto enthusiasts an oportunity to meet at a major event. The Knottsberry Farm venue is perfect for the West Coast as (1) there is a huge SoCal group that supports the show; (2) the show draws 1000's of spectators; (3) there are +2500 Fords to look at besides our Pintos. Thanks again Brad for your effort. As far as the awards, it is a really good feeling to receive an award voted on by your peers, but it is not the reason I attend this event. Meeting old friends and making new ones from the Pinto community is what it's all about. See you in 2008- Joe  
1971- 289 V8; B&M C4; 9" with 4:11 posi. Several suspension upgrades and body modifications.
1974- 2.3L wagon,4-spd,totally stock. Medium lime yellow, avacado interior, 99k miles.
1972- 1984 Mustang SVO turbo; 5-speed tremec; 9" rear w/positraction; fiberglass front & doors; upgraded suspension.

dholvrsn

'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

Cookieboystoys

Scott, I'm up for something closer to home on a smaller scale. I think each State could have smaller get togethers if interest was there. I know I would be willing to go to any get together that's within a state away time permitting. A suggestion here would be to find a small local event instead of the "Big" shows. The 2 smaller local events I have been to have had around 100 cars and are kind of fun to attend.

Back when the member map was up and working it really gave a person an idea of how many pinto owners were in a given area. As I recall there were 5 or 6 in Minnesota who had placed pins. Lots in lower Wisconsin and surrounding areas. Small get togethers are possible even if it's only a few cars and if we get together as a group. Then it doesn't matter the condition of the cars... I'm still!! impressed by PollyAl's origional owner car from the Tulsa show even though it needs restore...
It's all about the Pintos! Baby!

Srt

i don't own one now. i did back in the early to late '70's.  it was a dark green metallic 2.0 with a 4speed. a trunk model as you call them now.  it had gone through many configurations as far as engine and suspension modifications are concerned. 

it was my  1st new car.  it was an excellent car.  well made and very tough in my opinion.  it was fast and it died hard.  i liked the cars then and i like them now. 

seeing as how the membership/fellowship of Pinto owners is so far flung across the US i think separate regional events are the best way to go to assure maximum exposure and maximum fun for those who can attend.

i was at the Knotts show this year and at the breakfast too.  I had a real good time. 
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

Scott Hamilton

It's amazing how much we have grown over the years and what we have become today, I can only guess at where we will be in 5 years from now.. WOW...

I was only able to participate in the Knottsberry Farm meet this year and was very impressed with the turnout. Brad did a fantastic Job and from what I have heard of the PA an OK meets, Bill and Dave are winners in all our books. You guys need to also acknowledge Frank Canon of PintoWorks who supplied the shirts for the all the meets an d the awards for the OK meet...  Class act there!

I think we all agree that regional meets is the way to go but the real question is do we keep the meets at there present location or move them about?

My Opinion, I think we need to keep the meets we have- 3 a year and let them grow for several years and start to incubate some smaller sanctioned 'get-togethers' and develop them into meets...

What do you guys think?
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

Pintaro

Im with everyone here.I had a great time in Tulsa,even though I didnt stay for the show.For me it was all about hanging out with the guys and drolling over everyones Pintos.Your a great bunch of guys and I look foward to seeing everyone in the future.
                            Mike

r4pinto

Well, my Pinto missed out since I got another 85 Omni GLHT to replace the rusted out one I had and that has taken the past 6-8 months away from my Pinto.

Anyways I belong to a club called SDAC (Shelby Dodge Auto Club) Buckeye chapter, and we have meets & shows frequently, or atleast try to. For granted I was the only one representing SDAC Buckey at Carlisle this year but that was probably because SDAC 17 convention was in New Stanton 2 weeks earlier.

It works out great & we all get to see each others rides this way.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

turbowagonman

Well I'm going to voice my opinion here!
I wanted to make Carlisle Soooo bad........but my car wasn't done yet and it's almost 500 miles away for me to go there. IT WILL BE THERE NEXT YEAR!, if there is a meet there. If I had a trailer it would have been there with the car on the trailer, the way I see it I am still there meeting people from the PCCA.

Reading some of the previous posts,if awards were handed out and I didn't get one it wouldn't bother me at all, eventhough I've put almost Two years of hard work into it. BUT there are some people that feel "If I dont get an award I just wont participate anymore", now I'm not that kind of person so it wouldn't bother if there were awards or no awards!

I've met quite a few people on this site that Ive had conversations with on the phone and I would love to meet the people I'm talking to. Now Fun Ford Weekend is coming up next weekend at Norwalk Raceway and I'm looking forward to meeting the few people that live in my area there. I'm sooooo looking forward to that because we are a breed of a differant kind of people that aren't into the whole Mustang, Failane, Torino and so on kind of "Groups" we are in the "Pinto Group".

Most of us have our own reasons for falling in love with our cars and it isn't beacuse we won the NHRA Manufactuers Chapionship Points Race in 1964, or won at Daytona in 1968, or held the Bonnivlle Salt Flat record speeds in 1972 and so on. the reason we love our cars is because, our Aunts owned one when we were 7 yrs old, Our Mom and Dad bought it for there first New car, a freind had one as their first car and the things that Little Pinto would do...... and so on.

So I'm all about Regional Meets I'll participate in as many as I can!

turbowagonman
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/