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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Restoring my 78 Sedan

Started by dave1987, May 25, 2007, 01:09:26 AM

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dave1987

Got the new gas cap today at my parents, fits perfectly and got me a set of keys that say "FUEL" again! :)

I changed out the water pump today as well, since it seemed to be on it's last leg. Also changed out the thermostat while I had the coolant out and painted the thermostat housing. Engine is cooling just like it did after the rebuild, again! :D I will post pictures tonight!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Replaced the output shaft seal on the transmission today. Took about a total of 45 minutes to drop the drive-shaft, pull the old seal out, install the new seal, reassemble and check the gear oil in both the differential and the transmission! I got my seal from Schucks/O'Reilly's, part number 13527, it's an SKF brand seal.

Fueled up the car today at Maverick, put the gas cap on the rear bumper like I always do, but forgot to put it back on before I left. I later found out that I forgot about it about two hours later, after driving the freeway and around town, picking up the seal for the car, and arriving at my parent's house. :(

No better time for an excuse to FINALLY order a NEW Stant locking cap for the car! ;) :D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Quote from: dave1987 on March 06, 2010, 07:12:18 PM
Thanks for all of your support through the process guys, I really appreciate it!

Insurance agent called me yesterday saying they fixed the comprehensive coverage issue and they mailed me a check for $180.00 which should arrive Monday! :D


Found a GREAT bug and tar remover as well! The old gasket sealant was "sprayed" all over the car when I wire-wheeled the pinch weld clean. The stuff stuck to the car pretty well and wiping it off just spread it, even after washing the car. Went to O'Reilly's and they carry a product by Stoner (I use their "Invisible Glass" to clean my windows) called "Tarminator". Works just as well as their glass cleaner and really isn't to messy!

Glad the insurance stuff all worked out!  I've had excellent experience with Stoner products... have used their Invisible Glass for years!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1987

Thanks for all of your support through the process guys, I really appreciate it!

Insurance agent called me yesterday saying they fixed the comprehensive coverage issue and they mailed me a check for $180.00 which should arrive Monday! :D


Found a GREAT bug and tar remover as well! The old gasket sealant was "sprayed" all over the car when I wire-wheeled the pinch weld clean. The stuff stuck to the car pretty well and wiping it off just spread it, even after washing the car. Went to O'Reilly's and they carry a product by Stoner (I use their "Invisible Glass" to clean my windows) called "Tarminator". Works just as well as their glass cleaner and really isn't to messy!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Quote from: dave1987 on March 05, 2010, 01:08:53 AM
Today it rained like hell. The car sat out in the rain while I was at work for 9 hours today. Not one drop of water! SO HAPPY! :D

Now to wash the car with a hose and see how it holds up! I'm pretty sure it will stand up to it though!  :devil:

Sounds great!  A true windshield success story!!!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1987

Today it rained like hell. The car sat out in the rain while I was at work for 9 hours today. Not one drop of water! SO HAPPY! :D

Now to wash the car with a hose and see how it holds up! I'm pretty sure it will stand up to it though!  :devil:
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Yeah, I'm worried about it leaking still.

Last night we had a little bit of rain, but I don't think it was enough to drain anywhere and puddle. Tonight and all day tomorrow we are supposed to be blasted with a storm, so we shall see in the morning!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

pintogirl

The reason why he didn't want to use any sealent in the gasket is because of the mess it makes! Most likely he didn't want to use the butyl (sp) because of the difficulty involved when trying to rope in the gasket.  I say this because that is what my Step Son has told me when he installed my windshield. He does windshields for a living! Makes it nice to have him around when we need a new one! LOL

When he installed our first windshield in the Ghost, he didn't use any sealent at all. Well, it leaked. So Hubby and I tried to get it back out, broke windshield in process! LOL After Step Son (Bobby) got us a new one, he tried Silicone in between window and gasket, and also gasket and body of car! He only did this because I insisted he did it! Well, it still leaked! So, he did just like your guy did, he ran a bead of that black stuff (used for installing the newer windshields in almost all cars of todays time) around the same way your guy did. Guess what?? It still leaks! It leaks in the same spot as it always did. So I really don't know if it is comeing from the windsheild gasket, or maybe it is coming from the roof rack and then leaking down the post. I really can't see how it would leak from around the windshield with that black goop in there!

Now, moving on to the Green Machine, this time I tried this rubbery felt stuff that is made for windshields. It pinches around the metal of the car, then the gasket goes over it. Well, it leaks like crazy! LOL So bad that I have to tarp the car!! I haven't looked into it that far to see where exactly it is coming from. I just know that it filled up the little tray in the center of the tranny hump!!! It was raining when I discovered the water so I just dumped it and covered the car! Figured it may be leaking into the radio so I wanted it covered asap!!

I think my next windshield will be getting that butyl stuff! I would like to have atleast one Pinto that doesn't leak after a new windshield or rubber!!

Crossing my fingers that yours doesn't leak!!!!  :D
Kim
www.pintobuyersanonymous.com

I have come to realize that I am powerless to cuteness of a rusty old Pinto.

Sacramento CA

dga57

Dave,

Thank you for offering up such a detailed description of your windshield installation.  While I've always felt glass work is best left to the professionals, I'm sure there are many do-it-yourselfers here who will benefit tremendously from your posts.  I also think it might make a good article for a future issue of Pinto Times.

I sure hope your insurance agent can make that reimbursement happen... that would just be icing on the cake, now wouldn't it?

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1987

That was all he had to do! The rest was left to me. I installed the gasket "clamps" that screw into the cowl along the base of the windshield, I installed the trim clips and the trim as well.

Unfortunately I seem to have lost one of the tabs that go inside the base of the windshield trim and screws into the pillar. I will have to scour the junk yard for a good one for the passenger side now. :(

This was Mikes first Pinto to have ever done any work on, and he should be proud of it. No outside shops or mechanics ever touch my car unless it's welding exhaust or an alignment! He stated that not even his boss had done a Pinto yet, and he has worked for the company for 10 years!

I'm very happy with the end result, and I don't think it will leak, but we will see after all the rain that is supposed to come down in the next couple of days.

I find it odd driving the car with a perfect windshield. It is quite satisfying driving a Pinto against the sun and not fighting to see the road behind all of the sandblasted glass! Brings a smile to my face. :)


I spoke to my insurance agent yesterday about my comprehensive coverage. Well in September of last year, I told him about my want to change the windshield gasket, but no one (even glass shops) thought they could get the glass out in one piece, so I wanted to have the windshield replace under an insurance claim without any cost to me. He had told me he would set it up that way for me.

Well he didn't and ended up setting it up with a $500 comprehensive deductible, he even took a note of it! He has corrected it on his end, he just needs it to be certified by his underwriter and then we can process the claim. I sent him the invoice thing for the work done to the car and he will file the claim once the premium changes are completed. I should get a check from them for $180.00 to reimburse me for my out of pocket repair.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Once finished with the caulking, he took out a plastic type putty knife and mashed the urethane into the gap between the car and the gasket, sealing out any water that might try to drain between the two and into the car. While sealing it all up, he would wipe the knife down periodically to remove any excess sealant, ensuring a fairly clean install in the end. It is still pretty messy in the groove after, but not as bad as it could be!

I asked him to squirt the sealant stuff in the gasket along the bottom of the glass just to make sure it doesn't leak when water drains downwards off the windshield. He happily did so, and went up along the sides of the glass about two inches as well. Then he pulled out a roller like tool and mashed the gasket down against the glass, pushing out any extra sealant and creating a tight seal.

13) Can't really tell, but the sealant/adhesive is mashed against the gasket, and packed between any gap between the car and the gasket, sealing out any water.
14) Mike packing the adhesive into the gasket/body gap with a plastic type putty knife.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Once the windshield was lined up, he removed the suction cup from the outside and stuck it on the inside. He used it to pull the glass down a little bit from the inside to help the gasket seat completely. While pulling down on the suction cup handle, he pulled the 550 cord through, starting from the driver's side and working towards the passenger side corner, stopping every 6 inches or so to push the seal down by hand, forcing it into place and ensuring a proper seat. Once he reached the corner, he pulled the other end of the cord, sealing the bottom of the driver's side.

Once the bottom was sealed, he worked on pulling the seal around the corners. THIS IS THE HARDEST PART! He had some trouble getting the seal to pull inwards at the 90 degree turns, so he used a blunt hook like tool to grab the inside lip of the seal and pull it inwards, helping the seal seat, while at the same time pulling slightly on the cord. He started from the top corner of the passenger side and worked downwards with the hook until the entire pillar side of the gasket was seated inside, then pull the rest of the cord out, seating the passenger's side of the gasket. The same process was repeated on the driver's side.

Once the bottom corners were done, he just pulled the cord out from the driver side to the passenger side until the last of the cord came out at the corner.

After removing the cord, he used his fingers to pull the seal "outwards" and against the window frame, from the inside. This pulled the gasket around on the inside enough to completely seat the windshield. No turning back from here out!

Now moving to the outside of the car, he pushed the gasket "inwards" and against the glass to seat the glass completely.

After seating the glass, he pulled out the caulking gun, loaded with a tube of urethane windshield adhesive, and began squirting the stuff into the "channel" around the windshield, between the body of the car and the gasket, leaving about a 3/8" bead around the gasket. He shot this stuff around the top and the sides, but not along the bottom! He stated that the water SHOULD NOT drain downwards and then BACK UPWARDS between the gasket and the car to leak inside. HOWEVER, if it were to, then just bring it to the shop and have them shoot some more in along the bottom.

9) The glass sitting on the car, waiting to be set into place. The strings hanging from the windshield by tape is the 550 cord, mentioned earlier, that he uses to pull the gasket lip inwards and around the window frame.
10) Mike pulling the cord out around the bottom of the glass.
11) Sealing around the gasket on the outside
12) Urethane windshield adhesive around the gasket
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Mike looked over the windshield frame on the car several times, just to make sure there would be NO sheet metal problems that would cause an issue with the installation.

To aid the install, he sprayed the bottom of the windshield frame, and about six inches up each pillar with the foaming glass cleaner. This was done to lubricate the edges so the gasket would have a lesser chance of tearing against the edge of the frame while pulling the inside of the seal inwards. A VERY important thing to do for those of you who are considering installing your own glass. This could save you a a huge headache later!

Once the frame was lubricated, he laid the glass down into the frame (with the aid of his windshield suction cup tool), being sure that the bottom of the window frame slid into the gasket groove, and that the glass was centered properly on both sides.

5) I was worried about these bumps in the corners of the pinch weld. Mike said the gasket should seal fine around it though, I'll take his word on it!
6) Pinch weld bump on the driver's side.
7) "Lubricated" window frame.
8 ) Glass in place, ready to begin seating the seal!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Mike from Speedy Glass here in Boise Idaho drove the van out to my parents house and installed the BRAND NEW glass on the Pinto today. Great work, great quality, great service. I HIGHLY recommend this guy to anyone in Idaho who is replacing glass on their car!

Now onto the install!

Good notes before I start: No sealant was applied directly to the gasket. That meaning, NO sealant was used in the gasket grooves! He did not use butryl rubber cord/sealant either. In fact, he frowned upon the thought of using it. Instead he used a urethane windshield adhesive around the gasket on the outside, and along the bottom of the windshield inside the gasket groove to keep draining water from seeping into the car.

First Mike pulled the stand out of the van, then set it up and pulled the glass out, setting it onto the stand. Next he cleaned the glass with a foaming type glass cleaner, similar to Stoner's Invisible Glass (dispensed from an aerosol spray can), and cleaned it up real well on both sides. Before installing the gasket, he took a razor blade and ran it around the edge of the glass to remove any excess material from between the layers of glass, finishing up by installing the gasket.

I don't have it pictured, but before moving the glass from the stand to the car, he took his 550 cord and stuffed it into the gasket groove that the pinch weld goes into. he overlapped the cord in the middle on the bottom, overlapping about two feet, leaving about 8 inches on each end.


1) New glass on the install preparation stand.
2) Mike holding up the gasket before installing it on the glass
3) Gasket installed on the new glass.
4) The windshield frame clean and all burrs around the pinch welds filed down for a nice smooth edge that won't cut the gasket.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

FANTASTIC NEWS!!!  So glad this worked out well for you, Dave!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1987

Called every glass shop located in the Valley of southern Idaho and only one shop had the correct glass I needed. Apparently they switch to the 79 style glue in glass in June of 1978. So nearly every shop I contacted for a replacement windshield couldn't get the earlier style glass using the gasket, but had the glue in type readily available.

Even better news....

A new windshield will be installed tomorrow afternoon at 1:00 PM. :)

I went in to Speedy Glass and spoke to the gentleman about glass replacement. He called five sources of his for glass and found one! He originally charges $170.00 for the windshield but couldn't PHYSICALLY find one, so he found one at one of his sources and they only wanted $76.00 for it. So he dropped the overall price to $180.00, including labor, where as before it would have cost me $220.00 to have it installed!

Will be using my gasket from Steel Rubber for the install tomorrow. Hope it goes in without any leaks!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Here's a quick drawing I did in M$ Paint showing what the damage, sort-of, looks like.

1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

5) Cleaned all of the old gasket, flaky paint and sealing compound from the frame using a pneumatic grinder with a wire wheel attachment. No rust! YAY!

6) Another photo of the cleaned window frame

After cleaning the frame, we sprayed the bare metal with a rust inhibitor I bought from an auto body shop. Hopefully that will seal out any moisture! Unfortunately no pictures. :(

7) "550" cord, used to pull the gasket inwards and around the inside of the window frame. It's tucked into the body groove of the gasket before installation, then pulled out, starting at the bottom and moving upwards (equally on both sides).

8 ) Butryl rubber cord. Mashed into the glass groove of the windshield to provide a tight flexible seal.

Normally after installation, the rubber cord would be mashed between the gasket and the body on the outside of the windshield, but I didn't get that far before the windshield cracked. :(
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

I do, I will try and dig it out some time soon. Focusing on getting the car back on the road though.

Here are some pictures from as far as me and my Jeep buddy got.

1) We cut away the outside layer of the seal that goes against the glass, this kept anything from holding the windshield down. We went all the way around with a long breakaway blade, which is flexible and razor sharp!

2) Another picture of the cut away outer gasket.

3) Once the glass was removed, the gasket was all that was left to pull away from the window frame. You can see the seat that the glass sat in.

4) Here is the glass after removed. Placed it on a board covered with carpet (for padding), then put a towel under the windshield, and two foam blocks (from an old computer case shipping box) to hold up the beveled ends and avoiding any negative pressure on the ends of the glass.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

rctinker

Hey do you still have that center console from the merkur?
1977 Crusin Wagon when I was 16

dga57

Quote from: dave1987 on February 27, 2010, 11:13:45 PM
Unfortunately it is at $500. :(

I'm wondering if I go down to the insurance office, change my deductible to $0, then file a claim to have it fixed, if I would get in trouble for it or not.

That might work if you were willing to wait a couple of months between the time you make the change and when you file the claim.  On the other hand, there's no guarantee your agent wouldn't need to see the car in order to make that kind of change.  I just don't understand that high deductible on comprehensive insurance... doesn't seem like it would even be worth having if the deductible is that high.  I guess insurance laws, like everything else, vary from state to state ::)  Good luck!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1987

Unfortunately it is at $500. :(

I'm wondering if I go down to the insurance office, change my deductible to $0, then file a claim to have it fixed, if I would get in trouble for it or not.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Quote from: dave1987 on February 27, 2010, 11:18:15 AM
I will have to check. I have a $500 comprehensive deductible but I don't know how comprehensive might replace the windshield. I will have to call my insurance company and check on Monday.

Dave,
Are you sure that deductible is for comprehensive and not collision?  It sounds awfully high... my comprehensive insurance has a zero deductible.  When you talk to the insurance company, I wouldn't tell them how it got broken.  I doubt that they'd cover something that you did yourself.
Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

larjohnson

crossing my fingers for you...
Had a 1971 trunk model in High School, wanted another for old times sake, just purchased another in Washington State, very nice restore project.  I also own an all original 1972 Ford Pinto Runabout, one owner, always garaged, with 33,000 actual miles.  Life is SWEET!!!!

dave1987

I will have to check. I have a $500 comprehensive deductible but I don't know how comprehensive might replace the windshield. I will have to call my insurance company and check on Monday.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

larjohnson

Dave:  Maybe the windshield won't cost as much as you think.  But would your comprehensive from your insurance cover it???  My insurance will replace my windshield once a year I think, thru my comprehensive, and I don't think there's a deductible.  You may want to check.....Larry :police:
Had a 1971 trunk model in High School, wanted another for old times sake, just purchased another in Washington State, very nice restore project.  I also own an all original 1972 Ford Pinto Runabout, one owner, always garaged, with 33,000 actual miles.  Life is SWEET!!!!

dave1987

Cracked the windshield today while trying to get the new seal water tight. Blue Pinto is down for a long time. Damn I'm mad.  :mad:
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Need to find somewhere that will re-web a set of 78 seat belts I pulled from the Bobcat last year. My front driver's shoulder belt is fraying badly. :(
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Found the spare accelerator cable I had in a box of Pinto parts that I stuck in the back of the wagon. Maybe my dad will install it with me on x-mas. :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

I pumped some roofing shingle sealant between the gasket and the body on the outside beneath the chrome trim where the leak is, and smoothed it out so any water that does get there will travel down onto the fender drain. Hopefully it will work until I can afford a new gasket from Steel.



While I was under there, I took a look at my wiper motor. I found that the middle mounting screw for it was "loose" after removing the motor, I found this (pictures). :(

The shiney stuff in the background is not water, just A LOT of seam sealer that "dripped" down the firewall. No leaks around the seams!

I fabricated a piece of 3/8" bulletproof lexan with a threaded hole in it, which goes on the "inside" of the broken sheet metal. So now that center mount is basicly "clamped" to the wiper motor bracket. Good thing is, the motor no longer bounces around when the wipers are in use! :D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!