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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Restoring my 78 Sedan

Started by dave1987, May 25, 2007, 01:09:26 AM

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Bigtimmay

Looks good dave keep it up
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

dave1987

Found some pictures from Monday. I guess they uploaded to my Facebook account. So, here's some pictures of the axle before it was installed and a picture of the newly painted trunk lid! :)

1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

I requested Sunday off so I could attend the big Idaho car show in Emmett, where my car was purchased! Turns out the website had the wrong date and it was actually on SATURDAY, the day I had to work ALL DAY and EVERYTHING went wrong at work! :'(

I feel like all of this work has gone to waste, but I'm also happy it's done and the car is looking great again, it deserves that much each year, to look great.

I had been planning on that show for a whole year and I MISSED IT! :( I had everything ready for the show to, everything I wanted to display and show off was ready in the car, and now I have to put it all away. :(

Took the family down to Eagle Island Water Park today and we spent the day swimming. Even Tia got her little swimming suite on and got some water! :D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

While was waiting for my Jeep buddy Chris to come over and lend me a hand with dropping the old axle and putting the new one into place, I cleaned off the undercarriage and sprayed it down with a couple cans worth of rubberized undercoating to keep it from rusting. The undercarriage on my car is extremely clean for how many salt road winters it has survived and how much abuse it has been through (bottoming out on drive ways and speed bumps), so I wanted to preserve that part of the car to avoid having to weld in new floor in the future!

Before taking a break, I installed the front mudflaps, which was the easiest part, and called it good for a little while.

Once I was finished with that, I had some lunch (it was about 2:30 PM) and then went to the Sprint store to have my new phone (Samsung Seek) activated and have my sister's phone (on my account) looked at about dropping calls. As a side note, I no longer have the Samsung Seek, it was a downgrade from my M520 and I traded it in, paid the $35 restocking fee and the $211.99 price (with $100 mail in rebate) for the Samsung Intercept, which I am very happy with and can now browse the FordPinto.com web page in full HTML mode from the phone when I am away from home! :D

Around 4:00 PM Chris came over and we began the axle swap. I already had the road wheels off by the time he arrived, so we started to remove the drums. It proved to be quire troublesome for some reason and we had some issues getting the driver side off, but after adjusting the brake adjuster enough it slid off with little friction.

The passenger side was another story! We tried to adjust the passenger side as much as we could but couldn't seem to get the drum off, so we used a hammer to smack it from the back and pried it off with a screw driver. The shoes were still expanded! In our attempt to pry the drum off, we ended up mangling the brake shoe linings! :( Turns out it was all because the teeth of the star wheel on the adjusters were all rounded off and we couldn't grab any teeth when adjusting it, makes sense eh?

So about 5:50 we make our way out to O'Reilly's to buy a set of new brake shoes. $17.99, not bad! Also bought new adjusters for both sides, just to play it safe. $2.59/ea, even better!

We get back to the garage, pull the axle, swap the axle plates for the 73 one's Fred sent me and get ready to install the new axle. Hmm, something was missing, the brake lines! Now the 73 axle uses a different rubber hose that connects to the steel lines than the 78 does (larger bolt hole), so I put the new rubber line on and tried to fit the 78 steel axle lines on. No go, well, turns out I left the axle in my parents garage, but for some reason put the brake lines in my storage unit! So, off we went to storage to pick up the brake lines, unfortunately we could only find the longer passenger side, the driver side I put in some box of parts in the BACK of my storage unit. So instead of pulling everything out to get it, we just pulled the driver side axle brake line from Brownie (my disabled 73 wagon).

Once that was all one we installed the new axle, put a longer breather hose on it (since the breather nipple is on the differential case instead of the bolt for the rubber brake line), installed the new speedometer, bolted the drive shaft on, and rebuilt the brakes with the new shoes.

Now, I am using 78 drums on a 73 axle. Not sure if it's the width of the drums, the size of the shoes, or the rubber brake hose for a 73 being used on a 78, perhaps the steel lines are of a different diameter, but while we bled the rear brake system we couldn't get a consistent firm brake pedal until we adjusted the brake shoes quite a bit. Not a whole lot, but more than they were on the 78 axle. Everything seems to work fine though, the e-brake and stopping power are still superb, for dumb brakes that is.

Everything is done on the car that I wanted to do this year, minus the hole in the exhaust pipe at the rear hanger and replacing that section of pipe, but that should be done this week!

Here are some pictures of the mud flaps on the car and the repainted lines on the shift knob.

1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

I started Monday off by cleaning up the rear axle and then painting it, black tubes an housing with a silver housing cover. While that dried I cleaned up and painted the axle plates I got from Fred Morgan for the 73 axle (the plates have a round bushing hole rather than the later model oval hole), then I did the drums that I pulled from the 77 Mustang, and last I did the backing plates for the 73 axle. This axle only has 26,000 miles on it so it should last awhile! :)

Next up I covered up most of the car with cut open lawn bags and repainted the side mirrors with some low gloss black paint and then some satin clear coat. They came out VERY nicely!

While the paint dried on the mirrors, I moved to the windshield wiper arms (not on the list, but why not?). I covered the windshield with some more lawn bags and got them done.

While the paint dried on the exterior, I did a quick touch up of the center console where paint had started to rub down to the red.

Once all that paint dried, I popped the trunk and FINALLY finished painting it black! It was the last original yellow area of the car that was visible from a distance! Once again, not on the list, but I really wanted to get it done!



No picture of the trunk lid repainted, I was between upgrading phones and the pictures from the "in between" phone didn't transfer, so I will upload a picture of the repainted trunk lid tomorrow night. I could have swore I had pictures of the axle on here, but I can't find them now!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Well on Monday I got a big part of my list done. A few items didn't get done because I forgot to get things, or issues happened with the rear axle swap, which I will explain. First the things I didn't get done....

Touch up silver accents on the dash (Forgot to bring my silver sharpie pens!)
Repaint Lines on Shift Knob (Forgot to bring the white model paint!)
Patch hole on exhaust behind rear passenger wheel (Ran out of time)
Wash, wax and detail car (Ran out of time)

I was able to touch up the silver accents on the dash and repaint the lines on the shift knob from home, so those wern't biggies. Saturday morning I went to my parents before working to wash wax and detail the car for the car show (which I ended up MISSING :(), but I still haven't patched the hole on the exhaust, hopefully I can do that on Tuesday!

The replacement bumpers I have are not in as great of shape as I thought they were, as I found out after pressure washing them and polishing them with some Turtle Wax chrome polish. The rear bumper has the faint ghosting from a bumper sticker, and I can't stand to drive around in a car that has that, and the front bumper has a crack in it where the previous owner of the car I pulled them off of seems to have run into something at a fairly decent speed, I didn't want to put damaged bumpers on the car.

So, does anyone know how to completely remove bumper sticker ghosting from these bumpers?
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Quote from: dave1987 on July 09, 2010, 01:38:13 AM
It's been hitting the low to mid 90's around here, and on Monday when I plan to work on the car it is supposed to be 95! Great for drying the paint on stuff I'll be painting, bad for my hygiene! lol

Could be worse!  We've been in the triple digits here!  Main thing is STAY HYDRATED!!!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1987

It's been hitting the low to mid 90's around here, and on Monday when I plan to work on the car it is supposed to be 95! Great for drying the paint on stuff I'll be painting, bad for my hygiene! lol
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Hey... I seem to have problems getting ANYTHING done! :lol:  Temps here have been near 100, with heat indeces of 105-110 degrees!  Too hot to get out and do anything. 

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1987

Thanks Dwayne! Normally this is a list of the kinds of things I would try to do through-out a three to four month period. I'm anxious to start, but I know I'm going to hate having to do it all half way through the list. lol
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Dave,

Sounds like you have a pretty full agenda there!  Hope you manage to get it all done.  Good luck!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

dave1987

Went to the junk yard today! Got me a good straight pair of 77 Mustang II drums for the rear brakes! I'm going to drill out the lug holes to 5/16" to fit the 73 axle lug bases, everything should go together nicely on Tuesday! :D

Moved all of the stuff I'm going to using out of the house and over to my parent's garage today. Six cans of paint, one can of clear, one can of carb cleaner, all of the sealants, loctite and muffler patch putty.

So, plans for next Tuesday are as follows....

1) Clean and paint 73' axle to be installed
2) Remove stock axle and install 73' axle
3) Repaint and clear coat side mirrors
4) Install front mudflaps
5) Touch-up paint on center console
6) Touch-up silver accents on dash
7) Repaint visor retaining rods
8 ) Repaint lines on shift knob
9) Patch hole on exhaust behind rear passenger wheel
10) Clean undercarriage and apply spray can undercoating
11) Clean and install spare (better) bumpers
12) Wash, wax and detail the car


A LOT to do, but once it's done the car should make a nice eye catcher at it's first BIG car show! I'll be starting around 9AM, hopefully I can paint the side mirrors and install the front mud flaps after cleaning painting the axle and backing plates. While the paint dries I can try to get the other work done!

I'm pretty quick about getting stuff done, we'll see how good I am once the day begins! :D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Bigtimmay

i know where theres a StangII 8" right now i could prolly snag for 75-100 but i dont really want it i much prefer the 8.8 and if i need more then that ill get a 9".

As for the T5/T9 stuff i just prefer the T5 over the T9 because if for some odd reason it does happen to break theres tons of T5s around compared to the t9 atleast around here.

Im gunna try hooking up my 6 3/4 rear thats in my bobcat up to the T5 behind my 2.3t till i can get the 8.8 all setup for leafs (or until the 6 3/4 grenades from lauching). But i dont exactly know how far down the road that will be still buying parts and paint to finish the motor swap off.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

dave1987

I essentially have a Mustang II shifter on my stock 4spd right now. It has more arch to it than the stock Pinto one does, I like how close and easy it is to shift with.

I found the thread I was looking for on T5 swaps:

http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,4106.0.html

Not to worried about the transmission being super durable like for racing, I just need something with a 5th/OD gear in it. The stock 4spd would be fine for the rest of the car's life (which will be a LONG one!) but it just isn't economical to use with the 3.40 stock 6 3/4" rear axle.

I can easily get a T5 or a T9, so obtaining the transmission and bellcrank bell isn't a problem at all, it's trying to figure out how to make it all fit with minimal modification to the car. I'm trying to keep it as stock as I can with a few minor upgrades for comfort or due to lack of parts availability.

I'm still using a 6 3/4" rear axle because I already have the 3.40 geared one that only has 26k miles on it, no leaks, and no odd noises to it. It was $15 and I can't locate an 8" anywhere here in southern Idaho. I can get a T5 or T9 for $150 with the bell, where as it will cost me $300 to have the original 2.73 axle rebuilt, and that's IF they can find the parts to do it.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Bigtimmay

ill try to get a picture of how the stock shifter in my TC looks toomorow if i remember when i get back from KC
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

Bigtimmay

im gunna say the stock T5 shifter they arent straight like a pinto shifter they curve backwards just like the one in this pic but they arent billet short throws. LOL
http://www.gpfracing.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=1520
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

dave1987

How about a good shifter that looks stock in a Pinto, but is still with-in arms length like the Pinto's is?
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Bigtimmay

link for offset dowels for 2.0 bell on 2.3 http://www.turboford.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=014154

As for a 2.3 fox (85 or 86-93) trans they are T5s they are really good transmissions you would have to make the shifter hole 2 inchs closer to the dash for the shifter and weld a plate to the crossmember to bolt it up but depending on what rearend your using you might have to get a driveshaft cut but with a set of 3.40 gears highway speeds would be great.Plus the clutch cable needs a relocation bracket or the crossmember notched so it doesnt bind up on it.

My t5 in my TC has a 3.55 rear gear and at freeway speeds of 70-75  it holds about 2800-3k rpm
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

dave1987

Thanks man, I appreciate the input!

Now, how about putting a manual trans from a 2.3 fox body mustang? Would the shifter be in the same location? Isn't the early 80's model mustang trans the same as the Mustang II? The only thing I have seen of these transmissions is the shifter and where it bolts down with three bolts.

I'm trying to find a better geared transmission for use with this 3.40 rear axle I'm putting in the car so that it's drivable on the freeway without the engine revving so high. With the stock 2.73 axle and the stock 4spd it goes 75 mph on the freeway a little over 3500 RPM, and 65 mph at 3000 RPM, I want something around that range.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Bigtimmay

Quote from: 71pintoracer on July 06, 2010, 11:01:11 PM
no,they are different.

Umm if the bells a 2.0 c4 it can be used on a 2.3 with the use of step dowels to make it line up correctly theres quite a few people using them in their 2.3turbos due to the fact they are easier to find then the 2.3 c4 bells.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

71pintoracer

Quote from: dave1987 on June 21, 2010, 12:32:53 AM



Now a question for everyone, can a 2.0 bell housing be used on a 2.3? 
no,they are different.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

dave1987

Tune up did WONDERS. Didn't even have to use new plugs! I bought set, gaped them, but I found a set I used for two months in the trunk of the car. I cleaned them up and re-gaped, cleaned off the grime and grease off the spark plug wires, cleaned the contacts on the rotor and distributor cap and then bled the air out of the cooling system. Mr. Tadakichi runs nice and smooth now without overheating! :D

Looks like it's time to pull out the extra eight sets of three month used plugs I have in storage and do a clean up and re-gap to have them ready for swap next time I do a tune up again! I wonder if the distributor caps and rotors I have in storage are salvageable to.  :o


Bought the plates needed for the axle swap from Fred, should be here on Thursday! :D

I've got the 12th, 13th and 14th off so the 12th I plan to clean and paint the 3.40 geared rear end and backing plates, drill out the holes on the drums and swap out the axles. Hopefully I will have time between the painting (while waiting for it to dry) to install the front mud flaps and paint the tops of the side mirrors to get it nice and pretty for the car show on the 18th!

Bought new seat covers for the car, the 2.5 year old black faux leather seat covers were starting to show their age. Driver's side was torn up on the butt part of the seat while the passenger side one was in great shape aside from the sun faded black cloth on the sides which turned bronze!

Here's a pic of the new seat covers! Cloth all the way, shouldn't be burning my legs up in the summer this time around! They fit much more snug than the old ones did to! :D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

No news from the potential buyer of Brownie yet, I suppose that's a good thing though! :)

Did a tune up on the car today, new plugs, checked each wire to ensure it was conducting, and cleaned the contacts on the distributor cap and rotor, they were not to the point of replacement, just light wear. Everything is running nice and smooth again. Connected the engine analyzer to the motor and my tach is 50-100 RPM off from actual motor speed. Couldn't figure out why the temp is reaching 190 and not dropping back to 160, I think it's time for a flush and new coolant.

Checked the clutch and adjusted it a bit, working fine.

The rear axle has so much backlash it's making a clanking sound every time the clutch is engaged, so it looks like it's time to get a pair of early 6.75" axle spring mounting plates so I can properly install the 3.40 rear back into the car. Going to get the holes on the drums enlarged a bit more to be sure proper seating against the backing plate and alignment with the brake shoes.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Thanks 78_starsky!

I didn't use anything at the back of the deck. 50% of the deck is held in place by the wood sleeve. The sleeve is bolted to the dash from underneath and holds it nice and tight. No need for any rear support.



Now a question for everyone, can a 2.0 bell housing be used on a 2.3? Since I'm selling Brownie and the possible buyer will be swapping out the stock 2.0 for a rebuilt one with a 4 spd, I'm considering keeping the C4 and putting it in this 78 with the 3.40 rear since it's in much better shape.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

78_starsky

looking good.  what you use to hold the back end of the deck in place to secure/pick up  some of the wieght?  I will be needing to form some sort of holding bracket I am thinking.  did you have to make something? or did you use an original one?

dave1987

Thanks guys! Hopefully I can get the front mud flaps on by the end of next week, as well as repaint the tops of the side mirrors (faded black). I put the rear mud flaps on the about a year and a half ago and didn't have time to cut out or put the front ones on, finally getting around to that as well. lol
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

75bobcatv6


dave1987

And the conclusion to the radio install....

These first two photos show what the deck looks like with the faceplate attached and in it's full functionality. I likey! :D

The last two show the gap between the front of the deck and the Pinto bezel before all of this.

I used SEM - landau black plastic/vinyl paint on the bezel and filler bezel to match the rest of the interior.

1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

More pictures! :D

First photo here shows where the filler bezel is installed behind the tabs on the left side of the deck cage. once the cage tabs are bent into the holes in the top of the sleeve/mount assembly, it pulls the tabs on the front of the cage tight against the filler bezel, holding it in place without any adhesives, allowing me to make any modifications or install any other radio I like in future events!

Photo two is showing what the filler bezel would look like once the tabs were pushed in on the cage and into the sleeve/mount, nice and mesh against the Pinto radio bezel. :)

Photos three and four are of the deck installed (faceplate removed) with everything tightened down and aligned for proper appearance and functionality.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!