Mini Classifieds

Wanted 71-73 Pinto grill
Date: 03/09/2019 10:45 pm
1971-74 Various Pinto Parts
Date: 01/18/2020 03:44 pm
Pinto or Bobcat wagon wanted
Date: 08/05/2018 10:49 pm
Mallory Unilight dist 2.0
Date: 10/25/2019 03:44 pm
78 pinto wagon

Date: 06/04/2020 12:42 pm
1973 Pinto Runabout

Date: 03/25/2019 09:02 pm
2 Station Wagons for sale
Date: 04/20/2018 11:10 am
1978 fuel sendng unit
Date: 05/27/2020 09:54 am
71 72 front bumper brackets
Date: 06/10/2020 10:55 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,573
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 698
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 491
  • Total: 491
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Restoring my 78 Sedan

Started by dave1987, May 25, 2007, 01:09:26 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

dave1987

Next set of pictures....The first photos shows the bottom of the sleeve/mount. The two black dots on the upper corners are just sheet rock screws that help to hold the unit together. The center hole is the important one. A good size sheet metal screw with a hex head is screwed in from under the dash and into the sleeve/mount, this is all that is used to hold the entire assembly to the dash. Once the deck is installed straight and where it should be, the mounting screw is tightened to secure it.

Second picture shows the radio with the cage on it. In this photo you can see the triangular tabs that push through the holes cut into the top of the sleeve/mount (as shown above). I use at least six of the tabs to be sure it stays put.

Third picture shows the "filler bezel". This goes behind two tabs on the left and right sides of the front of the cage. The hole cut in the actual PINTO radio bezel was to large, showing more not just the face of the deck, but also some of the mount behind the Pinto bezel. This filler bezel covers up that gap and gives the final install a nice clean appearance. I used 1/8" thick lexan and spent about two hours getting it to fit perfectly as I wanted. Since the Pinto radio bezel I am using is plastic and slightly warped, it took a lot of trimming to make it match up right.

The fourth photo shows the Pinto radio bezel with the hole enlarged for the deck.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Not positive about the emblems on the fenders quite yet, but at least I know how to go about adding them!

I got the radio bezel finished finally. Two years after installing the new radio and I FINALLY finalized it! :D

Here's some pictures and a little bit of what I did....

These first four pictures are of the wood "sleeve/mount" I put together. It holds the cage for the Pioneer deck, which the deck slides in and locks to. I added wood to the base of it so it can rest on the bottom inside of the dash, keeping it level and tight when secured. The holes cut in the top of it are for the metal tabs that push outwards on the cage, the tabs hold the cage to the sleeve/mount and keep everything secure and together.

1) Side view of sleeve/mount
2) Front view of sleeve/mount
3) Back view of sleeve/mount
4) Top view of sleeve/mount
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Starsky and Hutch

Put the barrel clips on the emblem first then push them in the holes 
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

dave1987

Need to get work done on Mr. Tadakichi....Fix the radio bezel, touch up some paint here and there to make it decent, add the front mud flaps, I may change the bumpers out for the spare I have and polish the trim, but we'll see. Just over a month to go till the big show here, need to hurry!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Thanks 78_starsky, I'll see if I can track down some barrel clips at a body shop here!

Finding parts for the cars hasn't been easy here either, a lot of my stuff is either stock piled, or I get a hold of people around here. Since I drive one of the three well known pinto's here in the valley of Idaho (the only three that people ever see), I do my best to build LASTING relationships with other pinto owners and hot rodders here. Lots of people here are doing hot rods and buy Pintos for the front ends, then want to junk the rest or they sell them on craigslist for zilch! I buy up as much as I can afford without killing myself and then store it until I use up what I want to then sell the rest.

I've been stock piling parts for the past three years. Parted out/off a 77 Bobcat Wagon at the junk yard, and salvaged parts from a 78 Pinto Wagon in a near by town, the rest of my parts mostly come off other 70's era Ford cars, or I drive distances to find the parts I need, but only go that far if I absolutely cannot find what I need locally, and if I'm feeling up to a road trip! :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

78_starsky

Hi,  arrrhg  you guys make it sound soooo easy to find parts for your cars down south....  up here where I live you don't see any of these old pintos on the road let alone parts for them "pop up on CL"  lol   I do/will keep searching thou.  I did get an emblem mailed out from Seattle CL last week.  This one is one that I placed onto the valve cover,  if you are wanting to place emblems on your fenders, all I can suggest is you carefully measure out where you want to palce them,  drill the holes and be precise and then (from what I learnt taking the FORD ones off the hood) is you will need to get barrle clips/clamps and place the works into the holes.

hope this helps,  as I said  I haven't placed them into fenders (yet) but it is mainly in the measurements.

dave1987

How hard would it be to add pinto emblems to the fenders, seeing as I cannot find a reasonably priced source for PONY decals?
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

75bobcatv6

dave I get that on both wagons now. the one I bought from fred, or my wagon that Ive had for years. youll get used to it lol

dave1987

I bought it from carlharris here on the pinto forums, but I met him locally. He had it advertised on Craigslist last year, didn't know he was part of the car club until I met him and his car at a park here in Idaho. I still talk to him now and then, busy guy though.

I got it from him for $15 and a tube header for a 2.3 for $5. He was just clearing out stuff he didn't need/want anymore.

Craigslist digging helps a lot here in Idaho, no more Pintos in the junk yards with anything worth paying for anymore.

Going to a Craigslist ad early tomorrow morning to pick up the rear tail gate from a 78 wagon that I bought a couple weeks ago, and a pair of aluminum bumpers for the 78 for $20 for the pair! Keep searching, you'll get what you're after sooner or later. Patience has helped a lot with this car, more than I can say.



I had another offer on the car today, $1500, a customer at work made it. Of coarse I said no! lol Last month I had three other offers to buy the car, $5000, $2000, and $3500, in that order. This little guy hasn't got a price tag on it, why does everyone keep asking me if it's for sale!?!?!!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

78_starsky

hey  back on page 10 or so  you said you added a front valance,  how much did that set you back?  and where did you order it from?

thanks

rctinker

Awsome! Thanks Dave I apperciate you taking the time to grab those pics for me. They really helped me visualize what was needed to be done. Thanks again.
Tink
1977 Crusin Wagon when I was 16

dave1987

It isn't perfect, but it looks great and I like it. The space between the cubby and were the console was cut is REQUIRED. If the console isn't cut back that far, it's impossible to squeeze the cubby into it's place, which already requires some effort.

I have cut two small "blocks" out of the extra material removed from the console to fill in those spots. I originally hot glued them in place but the glue separated and they have fallen off. Need to get that all fixed before the big show here in July.

I hope this helps, Robert!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Here are some pictures of where my Mustang II console is installed under the stock cubby.

1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

I haven't driven the car in about four days now, had some rain here and there, never bothered to check the car since it seemed to have been sealed up after my last visit to the glass shop.

Nope, still leaking somewhere. I opened the door to get in and take some pictures for Robert's Mustang II console install and found a little puddle on the driver's side floor mat, passenger's side is nice and dry though.

I'll have to hit the windshield with the hose to really watch where it's coming from, but I suspect the bottom of the windshield between the body and the gasket, it's the only place they didn't put sealant in. Between the glass and gasket all around and gasket and body all around the sides and top are sealed though.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Got the video I made of my 78 Sedan finished and uploaded to Facebook! The video is split into two parts, for upload purposes. Those of you who would like a copy of the video in it's full resolution and quality, let me know so I can send you a copy of the DVD video. Check it out!

(Copy the links below to your address bar to view)

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1062308253&v=app_2392950137&ref=profile#!/video/video.php?v=1386536377752

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1062308253&v=app_2392950137&ref=profile#!/video/video.php?v=1387497161771
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Finally picked out a name for my 78 Sedan...

Mr. Tadakichi

Those of you who watch anime, Auzumanga Daioh will recognize the name. Mr. Tadakichi is the name of the main character's dog, a Great Pyrenees. In the anime TV series, the dog is a cherished family member of Chiyo-chan's family. Chiyo-chan is so small she can ride on the back of Mr. Tadakichi, and Mr. Tadakichi loves his owner(s) as much as they love him, not minding the attention he gets from outsiders. He is obedient and loved by all.

Seems to fit my 78 Sedan well! :)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

The original axle is going to be rebuilt then reinstalled. Two reasons behind this. 1) I'm just way to used to driving around with the gear ratio (2.73) of the original axle, and 2) the replacement axle ratio (3.40) just doesn't work to well for driving around town in fourth gear. :(

The windshield gasket leaked today while I washed the car! :(

Lucky for me it's an easy fix. The water is coming in right above where they stopped sealing between the glass and gasket up the pillars. They only sealed 1-2 inches up along the pillars between the gasket and glass, so I have an appointment on Monday at 10AM to bring the car by and they will seal all around the glass for it! Gotta love a good glass shop with a lifetime warranty on their work!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

71pintoracer

I posted in your other thread before I read this one, you need to get the perches with a round hole to match the rear end perch. Fred prob has a couple!
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

dave1987

Two views of a Pinto that you just don't see everyday! :P

1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

One of the bigger problems with this axle swap is pictured below. The large bolt to hold down the hydraulic brake hose on a 73 axle is larger in diameter than the 78's breather port/hose junction bolt. Because I cannot obtain a rear hydraulic brake hose for a 73 Pinto locally, I was forced to thread a bolt into the axle tube hole to seal it over, and use plastic zip ties to hold the existing hose/junction block to the new axle until a new one arrives from RockAuto.

Another problem I ran into with using a 73 axle on the 78 was the plates that are welded to the axle tubes, letting the axle sit flat on the leaf springs. On 73's, they have round holes in them for the leaf spring/axle bushing to come through slightly. On a 78, the same hole is rectangular. Because these are not ea silly interchangeable, I kept everything as it was, and just set the round hole plates on top of the rectangular bushings, letting the axle sit about 1/8" higher than it probably should.

The next problem was the backing plates. The 78 backing plates and axle tube flanges have a difference bolt offset than the 73 does. The 73 has a smaller distance between bolts than the 78 does, so I was forced to use the 73 backing plates. I continued to use my 78 brake drums though. They do have slightly smaller stud holes, but they DO work fine without any issues!

The last problem is that the 73 axle points upwards about 1/2" more than the 78 axle did. I was greatly concerned about this when bolting the axle down, due to the change in pinion angle. Fortunately it did not make a big difference and no real problems, but it is something to be aware of!

While driving the car I notice a slight thud, most likely from a combination of the higher pinion angle and the extra 1/8" of axle height from the swap. The differential is probably being torqued upwards causing it to bounce against the rubber bumper at the end of the drive line tunnel at the back of the car.


The good news! I ended up using a 21 tooth (Red gear, P/N CODD-17271-B) speedometer gear in the transmission, it leaves me 1-2 mph slower on the speedometer than the actual speed, but I can live with that! The car has SO MUCH MORE get up and go now! First time going forwards from a complete stop and I easily squealed the tires!


5) Hydraulic brake hose bolt on 73 axle
6) Hydraulic brake hose bolt AND breather port screw on 78 axle
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Well, here are some photos of the axle swap, er differences, that I took today while installing the 73 Wagon axle on my 78 Sedan!

1) 73 Axle on LEFT, 78 axle on RIGHT
2) Differential casting differences
3) Breather port on the 73 differential
4) No ports on the 78 differential
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

I used the Permatex RTV Copper gasket maker. in the tube.

How long does the spray can stuff take to cure?

I have had issues with this thermostat housing sealing correctly since the motor rebuild. My dad bought a NOS one from a dealership in texas a few years ago that I still have in storage. I think it might be time to starting using it now.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

71pintoracer

What kind of sealant are you using? I use the red spray can gasket sealer, put it together and go. When you work on flat rate you don't have time to wait!  :lol: I never use silicone on a gasket.
If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?

dave1987

Found a little problem today while changing out the spark plugs.... :(

The it appears that the water pump and the thermostat might be leaking between the gaskets. I think I might have added coolant to early after reassembly. I will be double checking the bolts on them on Sunday while I am at my parents swapping out the rear axle.

I also noticed a drip from under exhaust port #1.  :'( :'( I don't know if it is just flowing from the upper thermostat bolt or if it's leaking from the head gasket, I hope it's just the bolt!

Sunday I will redo the gaskets on the pump and thermostat, let it sit until Wednesday, then add coolant and try again.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

r4pinto

Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dave1987

Once I refilled the system and let it run until it hit 190 degrees according to my temperature gauge in the car, the thermostat popped open and engine temp went down to 160 degrees, and while holding the motor at a constant 2500 RPM, it only ever got up to about 175-ish, that's with the radiator cap off.

Once I put the cap on and drove the car home, it stayed at about 180, occasionally getting up to 190 but then dropping back down. I think it's all good to go now. No leaks in the system and temperature has yet to go any higher than 190! :D



On a side note, I don't really think the PUMP was the problem, I think it was more a combination of the thermostat going out and there being air in the system. It had been awhile since I properly bled all the air out of the system and I had topped off the antifreeze a couple times in the past year. The pump doesn't spin rough or have any sticky spots when I spin it by hand, slow or fast!

The clicking sound was there when I started the car and let it idle in front of my parents before I left, but went away quickly. I'm still thinking that it is my smog pump making that sound.

I now have a new pump, thermostat and radiator cap on the car, and a spare water pump for later in case I have to special order a replacement under warranty!

13) New water pump and thermostat housing installed
14) Motor reassembled and ready to go!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

I figured that while I had the thermostat housing off this time, that I would paint it since I didn't do that the last four times it was off. lol

9) Front of motor cleaned off and ready for the new thermostat and pump to be installed!
10) Thermostat housing wire wheeled clean with the aid of the pheumatic grinder!
11) Base of thermostat housing clean
12) thermostat housing painted and readying for installation!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Since I had the whole the cooling system empty and most of the front of the motor taken apart, I decided to change the thermostat while I was there. Bought a new 192 degree thermostat, the old one was a 185 I believe, I can't remember for sure.

5) Old thermostat vs. New thermostat (I'm sure you can tell which is which! ;))
6) Old thermostat vs. New thermostat (again)
7) Thermostat housing after removed from motor
8 ) Base of thermostat housing after removed from motor
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Yeah, I put one on. The MasterPro new water pump came with one. I also used some high temp RTV copper gasket sealer on both sides of it just to make sure it wouldn't leak. Me and my dad had a hell of a time trying to seal up the thermostat after the first drive after the engine rebuild, turns out we didn't have the thermostat seated in the housing all the way because there was some old buildup in the thermostat seat/groove!

The New pump is a MasterPro unit, not a reman, brand spakin new! Came with a lifetime warrenty to! :D

The Old pump was a Carter, from what I can tell. It looks like it was a reman pump, as it has Ford casting numbers on it, D42E-AB. It was purchased in 1988 by my dad at a Kragen's Auto Parts store, which became a Schucks in the 90s, and is now an Oreilly's/Schucks. It only had a 2 year warrenty, but has lasted this long, 22 years later!

Now on to some pictures!

1) Difference in impellers between a "Carter" and a "MasterPro"
2) Difference in shaft mount assembly
3) Carter Pump Casting Number
4) MasterPro Pump Casting Number
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

blupinto

Dave, you put the water pump gasket in, right? When I bought mine last year the gasket was separate. Anyway, good job!  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!