Mini Classifieds

4-14" Chrome Plated Wheels 4 x 108 + 0mm offset with new tires

Date: 09/12/2018 12:33 pm
1980 Pinto w/ Trunk
Date: 08/10/2022 04:09 pm
1977 Pinto Cruizin Wagon

Date: 08/07/2023 02:52 pm
Hatch needed
Date: 09/10/2017 09:16 pm
1976-1980 A/C condensor

Date: 09/21/2020 10:43 pm
73 2.0 Timing Crank Gear & Woodruff key WANTED
Date: 09/01/2017 07:52 am
Need Throttle Solenoid for 1978 Pinto Sedan 2300ccm
Date: 05/03/2024 05:37 am
Wagon rear quarters
Date: 06/17/2020 03:32 pm
Need 77 or 78 Cruising Wagon Speedometer Tachometer Assembly
Date: 06/24/2020 06:12 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,577
  • Total Topics: 16,269
  • Online today: 129
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 89
  • Total: 89
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Pintos in movies --list

Started by phils toys, January 08, 2007, 04:30:25 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

flash041

I just started watching the first season of the Rockford Files  1974 on netflix.I have seen a pinto in both episodes I have watched so far.The one I watched last night Jim drove a Vega to Parker AZ.I was on the lookout for Fred while watching it LOL ! In Parker he parked the Vega next to a Gremlin!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

pintoman2.0

As  matter of fact I think in the first episodes Peg had one.

pintoman2.0

HA! I got one!! Married With Children, the episode where Steve sells Marcies prized Barbi. Him and Al are walking the streets of Chicago and come across some kids stealing the hub caps off a Pinto. Can only see the front fender so don't know what model.

P

earthquake

Steven Segal out for justice.71 to73 sedan or hatch sitting out in front of the butcher shop where all the bad guys try to take him out.
73 sedan parts car,80 crusin wagon conversion,76 F 250 460 SCJ,74 Ranchero 4x4,88 mustang lx convertable,and the readheaded step child 86 uhhh Chevy 4x4(Sorry guys it was cheap)

Pintobean 80

silane of the lambs friday has a pinto covn also stright talk with dolly parton driving a 80 pinto theres also a carrie underwood video
Pintobean 80

sedandelivery

On the Charley's Angels tv show, Jacklin Smith always drove a Pinto, and in one episode she was in a car chase in it and it got dented rather badly. I probably did not spell her name right, but you know what I mean! Lorenzo

289pinto

In the movie "the losers" there is a yelloe hatch back. I believe it gets blown up.
1978 Pinto wagon, 289, 8" rear, 17" cobra R rims

dave1987

Just finished watching sorcerer's apprentice with the family. What a great Pinto scene! :D Great side shot and some decent interior shots to, even if they were dark! :D

I had to replay the Pinto scene to see it again, my wife thinks I'm crazy! lol
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

blupinto

Quote from: Ponygal on January 08, 2008, 11:51:39 PM
Found a squire wagon in Genesis' video for Misunderstanding, brief shot when a green wagon of some sort drives past, there is a SW parked on the road behind it.

Actually there were TWO Pintos... the green Squire mpg (check out the steel wheels) I'm guessing it's a post-75 Squire) and an early green sedan or Runabout. You can see the grille. Love that song BTW... great memories attached to it.
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

I've been watching reruns of Major Dad on Hulu. In season 2 episode 15 the General talks about his 1956 (?) MG in English Racing Green and Lieutenant Holowachuk talks about his 1977 Pinto. Major MacGillis replies, "You STILL drive a 1977 Pinto." lol. Go Holowachuk!  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

flash041

I am sure i would of ! I will not reveal what scene to Pinto in in till people have time to see the move. It was quite the suprise!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

dga57

Quote from: flash041 on September 04, 2010, 09:34:01 PM
OK got a new Movie with a Pinto in it.The move came out this summer , but my wife and I just saw it at the second run theader. The Sorcerer's Apprentice .We really enjoyed the movie.When the Pinto scene came on my wife asked If I knew there was a Pinto in it...I had no Idea!

You should have told her that if you'd known that, you'd have spent the bucks to see it on its first run!   :lol:

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

flash041

OK got a new Movie with a Pinto in it.The move came out this summer , but my wife and I just saw it at the second run theader. The Sorcerer's Apprentice .We really enjoyed the movie.When the Pinto scene came on my wife asked If I knew there was a Pinto in it...I had no Idea!
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

bigfoot

During "My Name Is Earl" earl lets the air out of 2 tires on a green pinto in the Robbed a Stoner Blind episode.
1976 runabout
1978 turbo
2000 electra-glide

blupinto

LOL. Sorry. I had only just gotten Police Academy! Great little movie! :lol:
One can never have too many Pintos!

phils toys

Quote from: blupinto on June 29, 2010, 09:27:36 PM
Phil... do I get a gold star...?
that was back in october  and i  forgot about it  let me see what i can find  for you
phil
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

blupinto

Phil... do I get a gold star...?
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

Watched Lou Grant season 1 episode 1. Two different white Pintos and a red Pinto were confirmed. A Mustang II was seen passing one of the guys' cars in the opening credits. Possible Maverick sightings too. ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

Quote from: dga57 on June 27, 2010, 12:10:53 AM
I agree... it WAS rather presumptuous on Rhoda's part!  Did you catch Rhoda's comment about her '65 Falcon?  Still... it wasn't quite the way I thought the show would end.  Actually,  they probably could have both gotten a Pinto for the price of one Mustang convertible! 

Dwayne :smile:

That's what I was thinking! :lol:
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

Quote from: phils toys on October 12, 2009, 09:21:38 PM
chalange for you blue  Police acadmey original  how many pntos  i saw 1 and it was used about 3 times in different locations can you also find the bobcats?

Phil I believe you did challenge me so I will hopefully do you proud with my sightings:

The dark green '77-'78 wagon- seen 3 times- #1 in the parking lot Mahoney worked at; #2 in the traffic jam when Mahoney's enemy pops a wheelie just before he crashes into the poor horse's arse; and parked in the parking lot at the Police Academy. Ahhh now the Bobcat(s): #1 driving in front of the police cruiser at beginning of movie (when the new recruits are coming in; #2 behind the one redneck cop-to-be when he's brown-nosing one of the senior officers; #3 (?) do I detect a headlight in that traffic jam (wheelie one)?; #4  Is that a Bobcat or Pinto sedan parked in that dark parking lot where the cop was hiding out when Mahoney and Hightower had a "driving lesson"? Possible other Pinto/Bobcat sighting- when the P.A. buses responded to the riots there was a very Pintoesque or Bobcatesque vehicle  parked along the street. Thank goodness for dvd tracking! Phil, did I pass? Do I get a gold star!?  Huh? Huh?
One can never have too many Pintos!

dga57

Quote from: blupinto on June 26, 2010, 11:57:33 PM
Yes... asnd no. The green one was prettier, but yellow with the DEluxe package and a/c was nice.  Frankly, it would've been better if Rhoda just paid Mary back. Ideal scenario...Mary and Rhoda each get a brand-new Pinto! ;D

I agree... it WAS rather presumptuous on Rhoda's part!  Did you catch Rhoda's comment about her '65 Falcon?  Still... it wasn't quite the way I thought the show would end.  Actually,  they probably could have both gotten a Pinto for the price of one Mustang convertible! 

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

Yes... asnd no. The green one was prettier, but yellow with the DEluxe package and a/c was nice.  Frankly, it would've been better if Rhoda just paid Mary back. Ideal scenario...Mary and Rhoda each get a brand-new Pinto! ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

dga57

Quote from: blupinto on June 26, 2010, 12:31:52 AM
OK I watched the whole episode of MTM season 3 episode 24 and saw, in addition to the coppery gold ones in the parking lot... a yummy-looking (to me anyway) Grabber Blue Pinto with black vinyl-top. Also, if you look closely at Mary's sales brochure... the cars on the back look suspiciously like Pintos... then she tosses them in the trash! Shame on you Mary!

I noticed the same thing about those brochures!  I thought that was interesting since it was a Mustang convertible that she was considering buying.  Did you like the surprise ending concerning the yellow convertible???

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

OK I watched the whole episode of MTM season 3 episode 24 and saw, in addition to the coppery gold ones in the parking lot... a yummy-looking (to me anyway) Grabber Blue Pinto with black vinyl-top. Also, if you look closely at Mary's sales brochure... the cars on the back look suspiciously like Pintos... then she tosses them in the trash! Shame on you Mary!
One can never have too many Pintos!

75bobcatv6

I don't know about movies anymore but there were a few episodes of *supernatural* that have a 79 or 80 Runabout in them both the same car two diff Episodes =)

blupinto

Me too! lol. I remember the theme song "Love Is All Around", the lettering, and her throwing her cap in the air the best! lol. It's a great show. Love the clothes and decor. Great stars on that show too! ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

phils toys

i have not seen mary tyler moore senice it was on tv when i was a child   :lol:
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

302PintoMan

add Crooklyn.  I just watched it on showtime.  About a family who is making it in brooklyn while the Jazz player dad is on the road.  Scene after little girl goes to the store and buys candy and chips, she walks out and a Pinto drives by.
a true hot rodder wouldn't be content until he had created a car so violent, so hairy, so totally sick, that the very act of pressing the throttle, could result in instant death

blupinto

OK I can't believe Phil missed THIS one! I've been watching the Mary Tyler Moore show and accidentally got on Season 3 episode 24 (I'm only on season 2 episode 2). Mary and Rhoda are getting their cars repaired and they seem to be at a Ford dealer. Outside I saw no less than two yes TWO brown or saddle bronze metallic Pintos in the lot and (ohhh I'm drooling!) an orange Runabout with creamy white interior in the showroom next to a green Mustang convertible. I'm thinking they're '73 models because the Pinto has a one-button pop-out rear quarter window. Oh to see a new shiny Pinto!  ;D  There might be more. I had to stop the episode because, well, I'm on episode 2 of season 2. ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

One can never have too many Pintos!