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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

The Electric Pinto

Started by electrabishi, October 14, 2006, 02:03:46 AM

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turbopinto72

Yes, he did ask for a time slip.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

turbopinto72

You guys crack me up. A few ( two of you ) seem to be " challenged" by this car..  ;)
I have yet to read anything here about this car that puts down anybody else BUT it seems that a couple of people think they need to put this car down by claiming its cost to much to build and its not fast. Maybe we should have another topic started so you guys can go bench racing. This site is not about challenging other people's work, cars etc. If you want that, go over to TurboFord and talk trash with the guys over there. Fair warning..................  >:(  >:(  >:(
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

turbopinto72

Nice time slip but what does it have to do with an electric Pinto??? This post is about a guy who built a nice car and is racing it.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Srt

the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

77turbopinto

Quote from: Pintony on August 02, 2008, 10:48:31 AM
[quote author=
I'm wondering (because I don't really know) what a 2.3L Turbo Pinto puts out for torque and power, and what potentially it could go up to without resorting to nitrous or all custom parts.

Mike


Hello Chris,
                         I think the Standard turbo 2.3 was rated at 145HP. From Pintony


IIRC: A 2.3T is rated at between 130ish to 205 HP DEPENDING on what car/year it came in.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

turbopinto72

Mike, keep up the good work. At least you are out there racing and building what you want. Let the 'Bench Racers" keep running their mouth........................
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

electrabishi

Quote from: Chris on August 01, 2008, 05:27:15 PM
I love the idea and i'm interested to hear more about it. I'm more of a fan of engineering and trying new things than going to a junk yard and bolting in some grease covered parts. Besides, how many turbo 2.3 or 5.0 swaps have been done? Maybe it's just me...i do like seeing something new though.

Best of luck to you. Also keep in mind that not everyone here can fully understand the concepts and physics of electricity, so maybe that's why it's not appreciated or well received by some.

Hi Chris,  its definitely something new.  Better than breaking knuckles in the grease trying to get busted exhaust manifold bolts out. 

and to your second point, thats why I race it and get time slips on an IHRA sanctioned track.  People might not understand the physics behind the electrics, but they understand the time slip statistics very well.  1.65 second 60 ft times, and 1000 ft-lb dyno curves really start opening eyes.  My challange is getting the details right so I can get the most out of the batteries for the few seconds I need it.  If you can make 360 V worth of batteries put out 1500 amps that is equal to 540 Kilowatts.  If there are 746 watts per HP then that equals 723.9 HP.  I only figure I'm getting 485 HP ou tof them right now.  So there's the engineering challange for you. 

I'm wondering (because I don't really know) what a 2.3L Turbo Pinto puts out for torque and power, and what potentially it could go up to without resorting to nitrous or all custom parts.

Mike

electrabishi

Quote from: bigbellybob on July 29, 2008, 04:51:13 PM
there definitely is no cost savings running an electric drag car. i could build a nice pinto for under 10k that would run them #'s and that's splurging on nice paint and wheels. you spent 30k so i would still have 20k, thats like 10,000 passes in gas i have never seen a drag car make that many passes in its life span.

Don't kid youself.  People don't go to the track to see Pinto's race.  The folks that don't know mine's electric don't give it a second glance.  And the racing thing isn't about saving money.  I consider it advertising costs. It helps more people see that electrics (and Pinto's) are capable.  If race prepared electric forklift motors and 750 HP electric motor controllers were as common in the junk yard as map351's $80 turbo Capri then your argument would not hold water, eh?

I expect your kind of argument from a Hi Po alky rail driver, because they can still beat me. But the guy who's 2008 stock Corvette got spanked by a cute little Pinto filled with batteries certainly wasn't making that argument.  And he paid almost twice what I did.  But of course you would give him the same ration if your $10k Pinto beat him too. 

How about that timeslip on your $10K Pinto?

;)

Mike

electrabishi

Quote from: map351 on July 30, 2008, 06:29:50 AM
12.62 that's it?
My X 84 Turbo Capri @ 3200Lb with a $80.00 junkyard 2.3 turbo went 1/8th 7.86 at 86.32, 1/4 12.38 at 112.78 1.671 60' on DOT street tires.

Yes but what does a $5 gallon of gas get that turbo Capri for miles?
$5 worth of electricity gets this 12 second door slammer to my office and back for a whole week, just shy of 100 miles  :lol:

turbopinto72

Quote from: map351 on July 30, 2008, 06:29:50 AM
12.62 that's it?
My X 84 Turbo Capri @ 3200Lb with a $80.00 junkyard 2.3 turbo went 1/8th 7.86 at 86.32, 1/4 12.38 at 112.78 1.671 60' on DOT street tires.

Pretty slow Capri. But all you seem to do is bad mouth other rides so I guess we take it all with a grain of salt.
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

Chris

I love the idea and i'm interested to hear more about it. I'm more of a fan of engineering and trying new things than going to a junk yard and bolting in some grease covered parts. Besides, how many turbo 2.3 or 5.0 swaps have been done? Maybe it's just me...i do like seeing something new though.

Best of luck to you. Also keep in mind that not everyone here can fully understand the concepts and physics of electricity, so maybe that's why it's not appreciated or well received by some.
1971 Pinto

map351

12.62 that's it?
My X 84 Turbo Capri @ 3200Lb with a $80.00 junkyard 2.3 turbo went 1/8th 7.86 at 86.32, 1/4 12.38 at 112.78 1.671 60' on DOT street tires.
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

FCANON

Quote from: bigbellybob on July 29, 2008, 04:51:13 PM
there definitely is no cost savings running an electric drag car. i could build a nice pinto for under 10k that would run them #'s and that's splurging on nice paint and wheels. you spent 30k so i would still have 20k, thats like 10,000 passes in gas i have never seen a drag car make that many passes in its life span.

And bobs point is?
the electric drag thing is fairly new of course it going to cost more.
The car has more power potential to come, it will be intresting to to see how the motors last and handle the abuse. It sometimes cost to be different.
Another V8 or Turbo four is nothing new(I've done them both) Let's see where this goes before anyone starts casting stones.
I also think this car is bringing intrest to the Pinto Group he does need some PCCA labling on that orange thing. I did spend the time to vote for yah....

FrankBoss
keeping the cup half full
www.pintoworks.com   www.tirestopinc.com
www.stophumpingmytown.com
www.FrankBoss.com

electrabishi

I got a new video I put together and linked up to our Dragimes.com submittal:
http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Pinto-Timeslip-15453.html
The link is just under the pic.

If you feel inclined to vote, please do.
We are currently #39 and working up through the ranks.
Every one of the electrics that are posted made it to Featured Car of the Month.
We're hoping to be the first Pinto with such distinction.

:lol:

Mike

electrabishi

I missed this show, but if its the Current Eliminator like I think it is that guy is down in the 7's now along with the Killacycle  :lol:

There is a series on Discovery: Men Green Machines that has recently featured the Killacycle and upcoming episodes to feature an Electric Land Rover and the electric Datsun 1200, White Zombie,  street machine (who's record we are chasing in the Pinto)

Mike

Srt

Anybody watch "Pass Time" on the SpeedChannel?  They just had a guy with an electric dragster make a run.  Guy went 8.69

Kinda neat seeing the smoke rolling off a set of slicks WITHOUT the engine noise
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

electrabishi

Correction to my last.  The the street legal Street Conversion class (SC/A) of the National Electric Drag Racing Association world record is currently 11.466 seconds.  not 1.466 seconds like I wrote ;D  G forces from a 1.4 second 1/4 mile run would probably kill someone, doh

crazyhorse

Thank you for that Electrabishi. I appreciate the time.

I'll send my friend that way.
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

electrabishi

No doubt there are less expensive ways to get an electric car converison.  Starting with an already converted or factory produced vehicle would probably be the easiest.  Next would be to pick a car people have done most often and use their experience.  Most common are S-10's, Rabbits and Porsche 914's.  You can browse what people have done and the prices they are paying at http://www.evalbum.com/  There are upwards of 1600 vehicles there.  But back to the Pinto.  Its the only one on that list.  A shame because the Pinto is an excellent platform.  Its light, easy to work on and you can still get parts for them, aftermarket too :-)
Doing a standard tranny is easier than an auto because with the auto you need to have an outboard pump to keep the fluid in the torque converter.  Going direct drive is even easier, but you need two motors or one big 11"+ motor to get the torque you need for taking off.  The Subaru AWD would  be a pretty good car too.  There are a few on the EVAlbum list.  I know my Pinto costs a lot but its intended purpose was to show that electrics don't have to be slow. My intent is to break a world record in the street legal Street Conversion class of the National Electric Drag Racing Association.  The record is currently 11.466 seconds and you won't beat it on a shoestring budget. Others are trying to show they are not expensive and yet others try to show they can get good range.  There are just not enough with all the combinations to make everyone happy.  But man the Pinto is sure fun to drive.   I wouldn't mind doing another one if the opportunity presented itself.
You could get just about all the parts you need to make a rolling EV conversion.  It may not be the fastes thing on the road but its been done for less than $2K.  You would have to join the EV Discussion list to get specifics on the types of good forklifts  http://www.evdl.org/

Mike

crazyhorse

How would this setup fare through the 5spd AWD trans in a Subaru?

Or more accurately, how would an AWD trans designed to handle 200-300ft/lb of torque handle the output of the specified motor?

I have a friend who is very interested in building an AWD electric Subaru XT.


Any reccomendations of forklifts that have reliable systems to pirate?

Shoot me an E-mail at crazyhorse_001@yahoo.com
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

Wittsend

Not to take anything away from this electric Pinto, but there are ways to make an electric car for less (for the guy who asked).  Recently I was in the Pick A Part wrecking yard (for their 50% sale) and found a company manufactured electric car.  It was made by Jet Industries and they basically manufactured electric cars from fastback Doge Omnis, Escorts and Rangers.

  http://www.davisengineering.net/Jet.html

Basically, from an Omni, I got the motor, speed controller, charger, gauges, battery box, cables and a lot of smaller doo-dads for $103 out the door including core and tax charges.  The tranny is actually an early 80's VW.  So, I can use a Mopar or VW as my base car.  I'd love to find an old Dodge Rampage truck based on the Omni. This would allow great weight distribution.  Well.., this is a Ford site so I'll pipe down about other brands.  Just wanted to say that if your interested in electric cars there are other alternatives.
Tom

electrabishi

apintonut inquired about a less expensive cut sheet for a daily driver type Pinto EV conversion.

Here 'tis:

Zilla 1K 156V 1000A Controller    $1,975.00
WarP9  9" Series Wound DC motor   $1,700.00
Manzanita Micro 20A PFC-20 Charger   $1,866.00
160V 250 Amp Breaker    $50.00
# 2/0 Cabling and crimp lugs   $200.00
Accessory and SLI +12V DC/DC Converter    $180.00
Albright SW200 Contactor w/ Magnetic Blowouts   $122.00
13 x Group31  AGM or Gel batteries $310 ea   $4,000.00
Total   $10,093.00



Of course this is mid to high quality components I'm quoting here and would make for a pretty Zippy conversion.  Quicker than any plain jane stock Pinto with somewhere between 20 - 30 mile range.  The price of lead has almost doubled in the 2 years since I did my truck.  But  the price of lithium-ion batteries has more than dropped in half.  Here's to hoping for lithium ;-)

You could find surplus forklift motors in the 7.5" to 9" range, or surplus wire cable contactors or switches, less expensive chargers and slightly less expensive motor controllers with no features.  You could make a Pinto move under electric power for as little as $5K with a compromise on range and/or power.

Know that even for the lowest of power systems you would definnitely want a donor with an 8" rear end.  If you think the the 6.75" rear end sucks in a gas car,  you will for sure kill it with the low rpm torque of a series wound DC motor. They produce typically about 3x the torque of similarly rated gasoline engines.

HTH,
Mike

electrabishi

I had no idea  ;)  24 mpg for a high 9's car is pretty good.  It sure ain't the norm though.  24 mpg funny enough was the average mileage for Model T's back near the turn of the century.  We've since gone to the moon, sent space craft to other planets and out of the solar system.  Yet still today after another turn of a century we're still only averaging 27 mpg.   I would drive a car as fast as yours if it got that kind of mileage.  But I don't see gas prices going down very much anytime soon and I have to look for alternative ways to have fun.  The Pinto was the absolut best choice of a platform for the goals I have for it.  If all the items I had to buy to make it electric were mass produced it should only cost $10k to do what I've done.  What happened to Ford's noble "under 2000 lbs and under $2000 concept they took with the Pinto?

So let me ask you,  with a Pinto that fast, how's the chassis holding up?  Roll bars? Sub-frame connectors?

Mike

turbo toy

My 80 Pinto is a true daily driver getting 24 MPG and is good for low 10's--high 9's at a cost of only $3,500.00. I appreciate what you are doing with ole sparkie, but it sure aint cheap. I can buy a lot of gas for the difference in price of the vehicles.

electrabishi

map351
now I go back and look at your post a little better, I want what you're smokin'  ;)

what exactly is "great gas mileage" in a 9 second car?  is it measured in gallons-per-mile?

Also, you wanna see low 8 sec from my Pinto  ???

IS there such a thing as a low 8 second Pinto.

Like I said I want somma that your smokin'   :lol:

Mike

electrabishi

map351,
it only costs me $0.25 to make a pass  :D

Yes there are plenty of faster cars. But most of them at the track with a license plate will go down to a 12 second electric Pinto.  I can drive the electric to work too :-)  I work 7 miles from home and do 6000 miles a year doing it.  And it costs me only $400 for the year.  Show me a muscle car that will do 6000 miles on $400 in gas  :lol:  Even if your coast-to-coast muscle car made 30 mpg it would still cost over $800 for 6000 miles of driving.  Its all about exploring the alternatives.  It works for me to drive to work and can still hold its own in the street brackets.  Did I mention its balls on consistent.  Between my two runs and my buddy who weighs 100 lbs more than me, we turned in 4 time slips within 0.0180 seconds, and the top 3 of those were within .0055.  Should do alright in the brackets, eh?

(12.7270 @ 97.00, 12.7298 @ 97.21, 12.7323 @ 97.59 and 12.7450 @ 97.21 The last one was a little too much wheel slip on the launch.)

And face it, its just plain embarassing to get spanked by a Pinto, and an electric one at that.  Sure there are plenty of faster cars.  But, like you said, they have their own sand box to play in.  ;)

Mike

Srt

the  guy is in relatively uncharted territory here.  why put him down? ???
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

map351

Quote from: electrabishi on May 30, 2008, 01:57:08 AM

The guys on the EV Discussion List and National Electric Drag Racing Association sites will be watching in anticipation as big bad butt muscle cars get passed by a puny little 12.7 second electric Pinto   :o

I know of a few big big bad butt muscle cars that are about 4 sec faster than you now and drive from coast to coast and don't need a Diesel & a trailer. Then there's the little bad butt muscle cars like the EVO  that are daily drivers get great gas mileage and make low 9 sec passes and drive it home more than 50 miles.

Then there's a few pintos on this board in the sub 10sec, and a street driven 2.3 & 2.5 turbo fords in the mid 8s.

30K  12.70 pass your not setting the world on fire or is that your speed controller smokin?

Show me some low 8 sec passes with your car then I'll be a believer...

If Kilacycle was running in NHRA Pro Stock bike it wouldn't make the show..

The electric cars are kool, different, cheap to operate, But they have there own sand box to play in, watch them old dinosaurs they might eat you..

Have fun with your project!
73 2.3Turbo Pinto
6S1941 / 289 Slab Side
40 Ford Sedan Delivery  For Sale

Pinto FiberGlass
https://picasaweb.google.com/73turbopinto/PintoHotpantsKitNewFrontAirdam

apintonut

Quote from: electrabishi on May 29, 2008, 03:08:49 PM
About $30K in the car itself between the two of us and a couple sponsors:

60 each Enersys Genesis 12V 16XE batteries    $5,400.00
Zilla 2K 360V 2000A Controller     $4,950.00
WarP9  9" Series Wound DC motor    $1,700.00
TransWarP9 Series wound DC motor    $2,750.00
Manzanita Micro 50A PFC-50 Charger    $3,000.00
Dutchman MotorSports Ford 9" Rear End    $2,455.00
New Wheels to fit bigger Ford Lug Pattern    $250.00
BF Goodrich g-Force T/A   215-60R14 Drag Radials (two)    $264.00
Calvert Racing CAL-TRACS traction bars    $350.00
Three Larger Breakers    $600.00
KiloVac 3000 Amp Main Contactor    $1,000.00
#4/0 Cable and Copper Buss Bars    $250.00
Accessory and SLI +12V DC/DC Converter     $350.00
Roll Bar Kit     $300.00
New Rear Springs    $500.00
Rabbit Core Controller for LCD Dash Display    $300.00
Spider box for 240V 50 Amp Genset Distribution    $300.00
Diesel Genset running Veggie Oil for at track charging    $2,000.00
used Ford F-250 for hauling to track    $1,500.00
Trailer for Hauling car to the track    $1,500.00
Battery Trays fabricated    $360.00
Switches, wire, nuts, bolts, odds, ends etc    $1,000.00
Body detailing and touch up    $500.00
Total    $31,579.00


could u get me a list like this to build a low dollar ev pinto.
im only want to go! with being upgradable to  60 mph and 180 miles
74 hatch soon to be turbo 2.3
73 sedan soon to be painted
stiletto parts(4 sale)
79 pinto wagon & beentoad
wtb 75 yellow w/ black int. (rally?) like profile pic.

electrabishi

Last year a bunch of the guys I know that race electrics put their rigs up on Dragtimes.com  Enough people voted them up to Featured-Car-Of-The-Month status in just a few short months.  I was jealous because my electric Pinto had no time slips but I voted from every computer I could every day fore those several months.  just yesterday I posted our 12.7270 second time slip and info of the car for all in the drag racing community to see. 

If there are people so inclined on this list to bring a Pinto to the forefront on the Dragtimes website then I ask please, let the voting begin  ;D

The way you vote it to go to this link http://www.dragtimes.com/Ford-Pinto-Timeslip-15453.html 

Scroll down some and Click "Vote"

type in the cryptic image of number and hit enter

It'll take 1 vote from one computer per day

The guys on the EV Discussion List and National Electric Drag Racing Association sites will be watching in anticipation as big bad butt muscle cars get passed by a puny little 12.7 second electric Pinto   :o

Cheers,
Mike