Mini Classifieds

1971-74 Various Pinto Parts
Date: 01/18/2020 03:44 pm
Various Pinto stuff for sale.
Date: 11/21/2018 01:56 pm
71-73 sway bar
Date: 06/12/2021 10:12 am
1971 Pinto Runabout turn key driver

Date: 07/01/2019 12:23 pm
Need 77 or 78 Cruising Wagon Speedometer Tachometer Assembly
Date: 06/24/2020 06:12 am
Ford 2.3L new gaskets for sale
Date: 12/10/2016 04:11 pm
1972 pinto grill
Date: 02/27/2018 12:13 am
1972 Runabout 351 Cleveland V8

Date: 11/05/2016 09:03 pm
2.3 front sump oil pan
Date: 07/24/2018 03:17 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,576
  • Total Topics: 16,268
  • Online today: 756
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 357
  • Total: 357
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Purple Pinto at Knotts Berry Farm

Started by Pintony, February 04, 2006, 02:05:26 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

turbopinto72

Quote from: Pintony on March 24, 2006, 08:54:47 PM
I Knew I would find a good use for that scrap diamond plate. ;D
I hope the Shiny Police likes it.
From Pintony

Hey Tony, the Shiny Police gives it a thumbs up BUT ( how do you put oil in it now) ?
Brad F
1972, 2.5 Turbo Pinto
1972, Pangra
1973, Pangra
1971, 289 Pinto

DragonWagon

Well, I'm not the law around here I recon, but that is shiny in my book.  :police:

Looks like the ol' P.P. is about ready to turn more heads!  :hypno: :surprised: ;D :amazed:
1976 mpg Wagon. The start of it all.
1977 Cruising Wagon, to be turboed.
1979 glass hatchback. No motor atm.
1980 wagon parts car.

Pintony

I Knew I would find a good use for that scrap diamond plate. ;D
I hope the Shiny Police likes it.
From Pintony

Pintony

Hello Group,
After re-sealing my Spearco cam-cover and cracking the front R.H corner I found out that it was leaking really bad out the oil filler tube. I have welded the holes up in the tower and welded a baffel in the top to help keep the oil where it belongs.
Here are the photos.
From Pintony

Pintony

Hello 73pintogeek,
The tail lights are something I picked up at a swap meet.
Not sure what they fit??? Maybe a trailer??
I made the custom cans to install them in my rear pan.
Thanks for the thumbs UP
From Pintony

Pintony

Quote from: Sir Hugh on March 23, 2006, 02:32:49 PM
Hey Pintony, about the cracked dash pad, a good solution to just hide it is a fabric dash cover.  Thats what we use when we can't replace them. They serve many uses: a nice clean look, a means of hiding nasty cracks, and they continue to protect what is still left of the dash.  Just a tip.  See you soon! ;D

Hello Sir Hugh,
I do not have and cracks in my dash pad.
I was just thinking about something modified, NOT stock.
Maybe the same tweed I have on my head linner??
From Pintony

73pintogeek

Hey Tony...
The P.P. doe`s look great...what tail light`s are those?
Anyway I wish I was going to Knott`s...love to see all the great Pony`s...but work prevail`s :mad:...I agree with Sir Hugh...a dash pad work`s wonder`s!
Rex
A bad day workin` on my Pinto is better than a good day at work!

Sir Hugh

Hey Pintony, about the cracked dash pad, a good solution to just hide it is a fabric dash cover.  Thats what we use when we can't replace them. They serve many uses: a nice clean look, a means of hiding nasty cracks, and they continue to protect what is still left of the dash.  Just a tip.  See you soon! ;D
Loving my plum 1978 Pinto Hatchback.  He has a rebuilt engine and is running like new. Beautiful. He still needs a new paint job though.

Pintony

Hello Tercin,
Thanks! I always like to see another THUMS-UP!!! :)
From Pintony

Tercin

I saw Pintony and his purple Pinto last Sunday. I can attest  to the fact that it is nice and those seats are very PURPLE. It looks cool. When you start heading west you are going to run in to delays everytime you stop for gas or coffee.

Tercin
The only Pinto I have
73 Sports Accent
Rust free California Car

Pintony

Hello Original 74, Sir Hugh & 79 Pannel,
Thank you for the THUMBS-UP. :)
Lots of hard work. Still have to get my Valve cover oil problem fixed.
There is oil everywhere from the Spearco valve cover.
I may go out and pull it off later. It needs a baffel welded in where the oil fill tube is.
OH and + I cracked it installing the bolts.
I am going to weld up the holes in the tower where the bolts go in from the side.
They are totally un-nessissary.
Still waiting on a warm day for the W/S install.
IF I do not get the warm day I need I will call a glass shop to install my NEW W/S and Gasket.
I also need to install the NEW horns I bought and MAYBE install the new steering wheel.
I would like to have the Dash pad recovered but that will probally have to wait.
From Pintony


wagonmaster

Hey Pintony!

Lookin' good!!!! Lookin' REAL good!!!! Lookin' forward to seeing it when you're out here! Take care!

79panel
Brien - wagonmaster
'85 LTD LX
'85 LTD Squire wagon

Sir Hugh

My God that is Sooo purple!  :o  I can't wait to see it!
Loving my plum 1978 Pinto Hatchback.  He has a rebuilt engine and is running like new. Beautiful. He still needs a new paint job though.

Original74

Looks awesome Tony! Can't wait to see this car when you travel through OK in a few weeks.

Question, for my 76 project Turbo swap, wanting the safety of a fuel cell. All I can find are top fill, which means one would open the rear hatch and fill up from within the passenger compartment. I don't like that idea. Ever heard of a side fill fuel cell? Or a way to do a bladder or foam in the current tank to make it safer? I do have the recall kit to install on it, but looking for more safety. Probably should not be so anal about it, what are the thoughts of those of you out there who daily drive Pinto's with stock gas tank setup?

Sorry Tony, probably need to move this to another thread, just thought you might have experience with my question.

****Just found this topic in the FAQ section****

See you soon.

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

Pintony


Pintony


Pintony

I cut a NEW piece of carpet underlayment  to help deaden the sound.
From pintony

Pintony

After getting the core replaces and the blower box back together.
I went to work on the shifter boot.
The stock mustang boot would not clear the new shifter so I modified it. ;D
From Pintony


Pintony

More photos of my heater core install.
I love that I have all the parts to fix a problem at 10:00 at night.
NOS heater core.
From Pintony

Pintony

Hello Group,
Pulled an "All Nighter" Last night to get my carpet changed and the Purple seats in.
After pulling the seats and side pannels + sill plates I discovered the dreaded oily-wet pass side foot well.
From Pintony

wagonmaster

Hey Pintony!

Brien here! If push comes to shove, you can always use me for a backup. I'm up in the air on whether I will be able to go afterall. My company is moving to a new location. The department I work in runs a data center and we may be moving the servers over the same weekend as the Ford show. Things keep getting pushed back for one reason or another, so I'm actually hoping there is some snag and we don't have to move the servers that weekend. We'll see!!
Brien - wagonmaster
'85 LTD LX
'85 LTD Squire wagon

Pintony

Hello Group,
I have my new fuel tank in and just finished filling NO LEAKS!!! ;D I installed a NEW filter right near the tank so I should be OK for that part.

Still waiting for a 70+ deg. day for the Windshield install.

New bootys installed on the rack & pinnion .

Now i'm having throttle cable problems that I hope to have fixed by Saturday.
I need to install a different kind of return spring.
One that pulls the throttle closed not pushes like I have now.

My P.P. seems to be running good.
Transmission seems a little tight, But I guess that is to be expected for a freshly rebuilt tranny.

I need to to buy a grease gun to lube the ball joints.$?

Money problems are no longer a concern. :drunk:
I have been working overtime and the money is good!

I have tried to contact pintopower a few times I hope everything is OK with him.
Only 20 days before I leave to California.
From Pintony



Sir Hugh

Hey Pintony, thanks that was not a problem.  I hope you can get everything you hope done in time.  I would love to see those purple seats that you mentioned; that would be an awesome sight.  And hey why not go to Mount Rushmore on the way back and save a trip.  Enjoy yourself.  Oh and I guess I'll be seeing you on my couch later.  Haha, have fun and good luck.  ;D  ~"Sir Hugh"
Loving my plum 1978 Pinto Hatchback.  He has a rebuilt engine and is running like new. Beautiful. He still needs a new paint job though.

Pintony

Hello Group,
George Lahr came by today and bought some NOS Pinto parts from me today
280.00 total sales.
I ordered my Centerforce clutch from Jegs this afternoon 279.98.
I hope not more that one person asks my opinion for a while as I only have 2 cents to spare. ;D
My clutch should be here by Next fFriday.
Hopefully it will be warm and I can get started putting the tranny back in my Purple Pinto.
From Pintony

Pintony

Quote from: Sir Hugh on February 09, 2006, 03:51:41 AM
Hi Pintony!  Just wishing you good luck on this trip.  It should be an amazing one what with driving your pinto half way cross country.  That just has to be fun. I'll be looking forward to meeting you in April.  There just may be three purple pintos at the show this year.  That alone is a sight.  Have fun and be safe (take care of that car).  ;D ~"Sir Hugh"

Hello Sir Hugh,
Somehow I missed this post and I feel bad for not responding.
Thank you for the vote of confidence!
Yes... Still over a month away and I'm anxious to get working on my P.P.
A buyer for bumpers is coming tomorrow. Hopefully that money will pay for most of my clutch.
Work is going much better as it always picks-up when tax checks start ariving. :) :) :)
I can not wait to set out for California.
I wanted to take my P.P. to Mount Rushmore this year to hopefully get my Pinto with the greatest backdrop ever. Maybe next year????? Actually that trip was planned for 2000 but I sheared the flywheel just before I left.
Lots to do... I may pull out my spare tank tomorrow to see what it looks like.
If all is OK I may drop my damaged tank to get ready for the swap.
I have a NEW sender so I hope the guage will read accurate after the swap.
I was planning on putting that tank in my pangra.
Anybody??? I need an early tank If you see a nice one hang on to it.
I will buy or swap NOS parts
See you at the Knotts!!!!
From Pintony

Pintony

Hey 79pannel,
Thank you for your offer.
I think everyone is meeting at pintopowers house.
That is where i'll be staying while not at the show.
As long as my invitation stays good with him.
Like I said before I will be leaving thursday the 6th.
Yahoo maps say 28hours of transit time.
I do not think I will make that good of time on my trip.
I'm thinking about stopping in tulsa OK. to meet up with Dave AKA Original74.
If my timming is right.
I do not see any way that I will get there anysooner than Saturday.
I'll know more as the show gets closer.
Lots to do before then.
My transmission is still out because of not having money for a HiPo clutch.
I'm thinking of installing a stock unit from my NOS Pinto stuff and just buying a stock 87 mustang plate for now.
It was nice for the last 3 days But NOW it is back to winter for a few days.
My List.
Money
NEW W/S and NEW gasket installed. Time +0$
NEW clutch and get my trans back in. Time +300$
Install the tank from my 73 to replace the damaged tank that is in there now. Time+0$
Get a spare tire ready. Mount and balance. time +20$ I've got the tire.
Take out my subwoofer box to make room for items I need for the trip.time +0$



Optional items
Install my NEW carpet.
Install my NEW Purple seats



wagonmaster

Pintony,

Email me with your phone number at pobs2u@yahoo.com and I'll send you my cell number so we can communicate about the show. I live right off the 91 Fwy. Easy to get to.
Brien - wagonmaster
'85 LTD LX
'85 LTD Squire wagon

wagonmaster

Hey Pintony!

I live a few miles away from Knotts in Anaheim and will be attending the show as well. I've got a sleeper couch you are more than welcome to. If you happen to show up on Friday, you can stay that night as well. I'll be meeting up with pintopower and the others on Sunday morning for breakfast and then head to the show. Let me know if I can be of any help! Did you say you have an NOS battery tray? Let me know and the price. Take care! Looking forward to meeting you!
Brien - wagonmaster
'85 LTD LX
'85 LTD Squire wagon

Pintony

Hello Pintopower,
That sound like a plan to me.
I'm sure I will not be there untill sometime saturday.
Thank you for your offer. :)
From Pintony