Mini Classifieds

1977 Pinto Cruizin Wagon

Date: 08/07/2023 02:52 pm
Looking for a Single Stage Nitrous Kit/ 2-bbl Holley Spray Bar Plate
Date: 01/06/2017 11:42 pm
79-80 full glass hatch

Date: 01/04/2017 04:04 am
Deluxe Steering Wheel
Date: 10/16/2017 08:13 am
78 wagon instrument y
Date: 04/30/2018 07:41 pm
'71,'72,or'73 small Ford v8 Pinto
Date: 01/23/2017 07:41 am
77 Cruising Wagon Front Seats
Date: 04/12/2017 12:37 pm
hubcaps

Date: 05/13/2021 05:33 pm
1974 Pinto Drivers door glass and parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:52 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 642
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 172
  • Total: 172
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Turbo Coupe/SVO Engine Swap

Started by 77turbopinto, September 22, 2005, 07:23:00 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

77turbopinto

Thanks. It is kind of what I thought. I will be getting a custom EM for her car that will re-locate the turbo forward about .75" to 1.0" (depending on the oil return).


Here are some more of my pic's. These are from my small VAM, PC1, no I/C days. I had them posted elsewhere, but I thought they would be better here.


http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1088

http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1083

http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1089

http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1368.0;attach=1090

Bill

Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

turbowagonman

Well I don't have a pic with the Motor in the car BUT I have a pic from just before I scrapped the car. In the miidle of the inner fender you can see a hole in a Triagular shape that was the whole that I cut just to make clearence for the WG.
The pic is on my photobucket site. It's the first pic and the name of the pic is  'Inner_Fender.jpg'.

    http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/?
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/

77turbopinto

Do you have a photo of the IHI in the car?

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

turbowagonman

I have put the 87 TC motor in my Wagon with an IHI....clearance problems you better believe. So I'm going with an External Waste Gate (on the header) no problem then. I have an FMIC on my old wagon and on my new one I plan on going with a much larger one. My plans are a T3/T4 Hybrid, NPR Large FMIC, BOV (Blow Off Valve)or BPV (By Pass Valve I have a BPV now), basically I've learned with my firt project car. I'll post a link here (First Project Cruising Wagon, Second Project Deluxe Wagon) http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/?

My second one is going to be Much Faster and Much More Refined than my first!
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Cruising Wagon.........R.I.P.
\'80\' Turbo Pinto Deluxe Wagon (work in progress)
http://s98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/turbowagonman/

77turbopinto

Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Mornblade

It's going to be at least a month before we'll be ready to put the motor in, probably two.  For total clearance of the turbo we were already expecting to make a change to the wheel well as it was originally designed to put the battery on (we are moving that to under the hatch). 

We will be taking all sorts of pictures as we go, and I was already planning on putting them here for all to see.

77turbopinto

Quote from: Mornblade on September 15, 2006, 01:24:29 PM
...IHI Turbo...

The T-3 has the wastegate tucked under the compressor kind of next to the block, IHI has the wastegate on the 'other' side away from the block. This looks like it will have some clearance issues. When you get that installed I would like if you would post some pics.; I am planning on using the IHI in Connie's car and I would like to know how it goes.

Thanks,
Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Mornblade

The current direction we are going is '88 T/C motor with the Big VAM, Brown Top injectors, and IHI Turbo. 

We are adding the Front Mount InterCooler, LA3 Computer, and a port and polish job on the heads.  We are using upgraded quality, stock-size brake replacement parts, and an 8-inch rear out of a '76? Mustang II.  Basic tune up items such as air cleaner, spark plugs, plug wires, etc. are being replaced with performance quality items.

It's all about research research research.

77turbopinto

Quote from: dholvrsn on September 12, 2006, 11:11:33 AM
What is I/C?

BTW, Currently gathering the parts to do a turbo Merkur to Pinto swap.

I/C = inter-cooler

FMIC = front mounted inter cooler

Bill

Added: When you compress air (like a turbo does) it heats the air. An inter-cooler will reduce the temp. of the air going into the turbocharged engine; this gets more power from the same pressure. I have seen I/C's installed on N/A engines but it is a WASTE (and funny).


More:

http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php?topic=5657.msg34066;topicseen#msg34066

Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

dholvrsn

What is I/C?

BTW, Currently gathering the parts to do a turbo Merkur to Pinto swap.
'80 MPG Pony, '80-'92
'79 porthole wagon, '06-on
'80 trunk model. '17-on
-----
'98 Dodge Ram 1500
'95 Buick Riviera
'63 Studebaker Champ
'57 Studebaker Silver Hawk
'51 Studebaker Commander Starlight
'47 Studebaker Champion
'41 Studebaker Commander Land Cruiser

77turbopinto

In the last few weeks I have installed a front mounted inter-cooler (FMIC), LA2 computer, and big VAM (with the 86 T/C t-3 turbo I had in it).

WELL WORTH THE TIME AND EFFORT. If you are doing, want to do, or have done this swap and NOT used these items, you are missing something.

The 86 T/C harness is MUCH easier to work with for swaps (XR4TI is even better) than the 87, but the computers are inferier.

Please remember that these items should be intalled as a 'package' with brown top injecters (my car had them before). You can do the FMIC, BUT the computers that are not set-up for them will NOT like them (ask me how I know). Also, the LA2 or LA3 will need the big VAM, brown top injectors, and I/C to run well. You can get an adustable FPR without switching to the brown tops, but not as good.

I still plan to do a cam, porting and timing experimentation too; I will post any results.

Now I can't wait until this winter to rip all this stuff back out of the car, detail everything, and paint the car.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

77turbopinto

As mentioned in my first post, I have the 11" granada rotors up front. When I installed the 68 stang 8" rear, I used the 10" (I think) drums. I still have to give a lot of pedal "input", but it will stop now.

IMO: Anything better than the cheap stock pads and shoes should be done as a minimum. My car with manual brakes just did not give me the confidence I wanted, even before the swap.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Mornblade

77turbopinto mentioned a brake upgrade.  What do you suggest as an upgrade? 

I was looking at replacing rotors, drums, wheel cylinders, calipers, pads, and shoes with Raybestos PG Plus stock replacement size.  Will this be okay, or do I have to go more extreme? 

I was also planning to replace all the brake lines with stainless steel lines, and the necessary hose sections with stainless braided hoses both for appearance and durability (mostly durability).

77turbopinto

Please note that I posted this from information in other threads, and modified it when I gathered new info so it might not 'read' that well.

Driveshaft info:

When swapped into a car that came with a 6.75" rear, the 8" rear pushes the stock pinto driveshaft forward about 1" or so; I would assume that Ford put a shorter shaft on them. I have never had any issues with 8" rears and stock driveshafts for the 6.75" rear, but the t-5 is longer than the stock pinto trannys (auto).

Pintos have different length driveshafts for different trannys and rears. I had a set of wagon leafs and the pins were the same distance from the front mounts, so I know they have the same wheelbase.

A driveshaft from a stock fox body will fit a T-5 to 8" rear IF the engine and tranny are in the STOCK LOCATION.  Be aware that when I searched I found that the Fox body car can have up to 7 different shafts, depending. Be sure you have the correct length, year and yoke.

I found the 77 Pinto m/t has a shaft about 43" weld to weld, and the a/t ones are about 44". Add 2" on either side to get on-center of the u-joints. The 8" rear pushes the shaft forward about 7/8" and the t-5 is about 1.75" longer than the stock c3. A shaft about 41" to 41.5" weld to weld (45"-45.5" at the u-joints) should be fine. Of all the ones I listed above, the V8 m/t one is the shortest at about 41.5" at the welds, but has the bigger u-joints DEPENDING on what year; the 86 and older ones take the same, front and rear as the Pinto FRONT. The Pinto rear takes a u-joint with two different size caps. 

I still had the driveshaft from my 79 2.3 4spd racecar. I put the a/t and the m/t shafts for 6.75" rear Pintos side by side. The a/t one is just about 1" longer. The 8" rear pushes it forward a little less than that, but I used the m/t one in the orange a/t car (last night) when I installed the 8" rear.


The following information is based on the 77/78/79 parts I have, or the swaps I have DONE:

C3 - 6.75"                      48" on-center of u-joints
4spd - 6.75"                       47" on-center of u-joints
C3 - 8"                               47" on-center of u-joints
C4 - 8" OR T-5 - 8"            45.5" on-center of u-joints


I never did one myself, but with the information I have I would assume that for a 4spd - 8" a 46"-46.5" (on-center of u-joints) would be needed.


The C4 trannys are longer than the C3's and the 4spds. I had a driveshaft shaft that was marked "2.0 Pinto" that was 45.5" O/C. If that was correct, it was most likely from a C4 - 8".

The end caps on the Pinto unit that u-bolt to the rear have a BIGGER diameter than the ones that are in the yoke, that is why they are different, where the fox ones are both the same size (but different sizes depending what year).

I installed the Pinto rear u-joint on the early fox driveshaft with no problems.

BTW: The EARLY fox u-joint will 'bolt' to the Pinto pinion, BUT the u-bolts will not clamp the u-joint properly to the rear axle. It will pinch, and over time (or abuse) cause it to fail.  2 of the 4 Pinto rear caps are 1.125" X 3.218" (overall width) that bolt to the rear yoke. IIRC, the other two are the same as the 4 on the front joint: 1.063" X 3.218". The later Fox body ones are like 3.5" wide.

An AreoStar rear driveshaft from a 94-97 WITH AWD is also 45.5" O/C and Ford made some of them in ALUMINUM. It has the same u-joints as the early Fox (pre 87) and Pinto fronts, 1.063" X 3.218" wide, both sides front and rear. I have one of these in my yellow car and I will be putting one in the orange car when I do the C4 swap.

The yoke for a C3 will fit the PINTO 4spd. The slip yoke for a C4 and a T-5 are the same.

Also, after some measuring I did notice that yokes can be different lengths, from about 3.5" to 5", even if they fit the same trannys.

NAPA part #372 u-joint has the correct caps and width to install on the later Fox driveshafts and still connect to the 8". IIRC: You might have to swap the Pinto caps to it but they do fit (I did a BUNCH of measuring).

The only thing I have needed to do is swap the caps on the u-joint and use the same driveshaft.

I would like to state this fact again: The 8" rear yoke (where the u-joint bolts) is made for a cap that is 1.25". The fox body with the u-joints that are 3.218" wide have cap diameters of 1.063" on all the caps. The Pinto and 60's Mustang joints (maybe others too) have two caps at 1.063 and two that are 1.25". A 1.063" cap will bolt in, but is not correct

The 1980 Pintos call for a different part # rear joint, but I don't know why.


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

fast34

I've been working on this swap on a 77 coupe, and if you don't mind doing a Little trimming on the sheetmetal up by the sore support, you can use the stock t/c air box, filter and all.  I went to a wrecking yard, and found a rubber intake hose off a 88 Mazda 626 to connect it to the turbo intake.  Looks very stock and should work well.  Just thought I would share.  If I ever get a digital camera, I will post photos.  Jim

77turbopinto

Thank you.

I plan to get more pics on here when I can.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

78pinto

Good job Bill, We thanks you for taking the time to complete this article in the FAQ area. You are an asset to this board!
** Jeff (78Pinto) is Missing from us but will always be a part of our community- We miss you Jeff **

77turbopinto

Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

77turbopinto

More. It is hard to see, but I dropped the "floor" in the tranny mount by 5/16" to match the engine mount brackets.
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

77turbopinto

Here are a few pics. Please note the manual kick down, not pretty, but it works great. This pic was taken before I put a 45* elbow the vac port. The fitting was very close to the hood.
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

CARCARE

HOW  ABOUT TRYING A T5 THEY WORK GREAT    AND EASY TO INSTALL
candyred silverbase                                                                                                      

78 turbo sedan 2 yr resto.

fomogo

Quote from: Pintony on January 18, 2006, 05:13:39 PM
That is NOT exactly true.
The XR4TI was wired in Germany.
The 2.3 was wired in Canada.
That is why it has a stand alone harness for the EFI.
From Pintony
Well... the 2.3 Lima wasnt intended to go into the Ford Sierra...
Same thing.


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

Pintony

That is NOT exactly true.
The XR4TI was wired in Germany.
The 2.3 was wired in Canada.
That is why it has a stand alone harness for the EFI.
From Pintony

fomogo

If you use the harness out of a Merkur XR4Ti... its a lot easier to wire... as the Merkur wasnt originally intended to have the 2.3T... it is wired in as a engine only harness.


Jim
The Internets only Turbo Pinto forum.
www.turbopinto.com

Mornblade

Yes, I meant the computer connections to the trannie. 

My donor if an Automatic with the 8UA computer, a friend who owns a Merkur gave me an LA3 computer and a Superchips module that he had picked up and wasn't using.

I am definately looking into the 8" rear end. 

Thank you for your advice, I'm sure I will be asking for more the further I get into the project.

77turbopinto

That should all bolt up. Depending on how well the donor was running, you might want to freshen it up. The bottom ends are very durable, but they are prone to head gaskets if the boost has been turned up. I did nothing to mine (170k) other than a good tune up, oil pump, water pump, time belt, front and rear seals, and assorted gaskets and hoses.

Unless you never use the extra power, you WILL need to replace the rear (if it is not an 8"). The 6.75" can't hold up to 85hp, I know, the one in our 78 is shot. The 8'" rear has a snout that is a bit longer, I have installed them in three stock pintos without any issues. I assume the pintos that came with those rears have a .5" to .75" shorter driveshaft. I am now working on the t5 install but the t5 tranny is longer than a stock pinto unit so I am now looking at a "custom" driveshaft from a fox body.

Are you talking about the comp. connections to the tranny? My donor was a stick, you might need to change and re-pin the comp. if you donor is an auto. That is a might, as all it might do is trigger a CEL that won't be hooked up anyway.

Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

Mornblade

I am planning on doing this swap in my '74 Runabout.  I have an '88 t/c donor.   Will the stock c-4 bolt up to the motor?  Are there connections for the trans that may give me trouble?  Other than upgrading the brakes, are there other things I should upgrade?

Also, between the car and the motor, are there any parts you would suggest I replace just as normal wear items?

Any help is always greatly appreciated.

77turbopinto

Some PRE 1974 info.

I never attempted this swap in a PRE-74, but IF I were to do it, I would 'locate' the tranny before doing anything. By that, I mean making and installing a bracket or fixture to make sure I KNOW where it is supposed to be (side to side and up-down) when remove the engine. Also, the fixture or bracket will need to be temporarily removed in order to remove the stock engine. Once the stock engine is out I would install the 2.3 (no waterpump or bolt-on items) to the tranny and re-set my fixture. Then I would modify the factory engine mount to frame brackets and bolt or weld them to the car. During all this the engine will still need to be supported semi-independently, even with the fixture mentioned. I would also keep in mind that I MIGHT want to lower the engine to get hood room BUT I would still do what I mentioned here and THEN do my drop. I don't know of any other issues that might arise, but there might be a few.

http://www.fordpinto.com/smf/index.php/topic,9816.msg60988.html#msg60988


Bill
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.

77turbopinto

Here are a bunch of my posts from a bunch of threads so it might not read very well, but I will try to clean it up and update the information when I can.

I will be happy to answer any questions I can on this topic, but PLEASE read the thread and the links before asking. I don't want to sound rude, but get get LOTS of P.M.s and emails looking for general information that is clearly posted here. If you need more detail please reply to this thread so that we can share the information. I will add to this post as I feel the need. All other turbo-pinto builders/owners, please add your insight too. Thank you for your cooperation.

WARNING: It is VERY easy to fry the ECU and BOTH HARNESSES if you hook things up wrong.

That being said, it is VERY easy to do correctly too.

Putting a turbo on the stock 2.3 is NOT a good idea if you go over 3 to 5 pounds of boost. The T/C-SVO 2.3T's are made to handle boost, the stock N/A engines WILL NOT last long even with "stock" boost levels for the EFI turbo cars. Unless you plan to build an engine from the ground up, a donor car is cheaper, this is why I (we) call this a "swap."   2.3T engines are made with a compression ratio (C/R) about 8.2 to 1 (ish), VS 9.5 to 1 (ish). The turbo (boost pressure) does NOT CHANGE the C/R of the engine, EVER (I will not argue this, if you don't belive it, that's fine; you are just wrong).   

There are a bunch of parts needed for this swap as well. I hope to post some part #'s and hardware lists soon as well. (fuel pump/filter, air filter, nuts, bolts......)

The best advice I can give to anyone attempting this is to get the wire diagrams from your donor (a running donor car is best, that way you are not chasing problems that were there to start with) and the one from your pinto, put them next to each other and compare. With the different cars, years, and options of potential donors, that is the best way to work on the wiring. There are only a few wires from each harness that need to be connected to each other, most are just grounds and power. This swap takes some mechanical skill, and is not a direct "bolt in" for ALL of the parts, and just bolting on the turbo items to a regular 2.3 is a "no-no" if you are looking for longevity or higher boost levels (over 5psi).

I have never had one, but I have been told that turbos and carbs just don't mix well.  I will not answer questions about them, sorry.


Donor info:

Car/Tranny/Year/Computer/Injectors/Intercooler/Turbo/VAM

GT Turbo/T5/83-84/TA/30/No/T3 .63 A/R/Small
Capri RS Turbo/T5/83-84/TA/30/No/T3 .63 A/R/Small
SVO/T5/84/ZBA/30/Yes/T3 .63 A/R/Big
SVO/T5/84/TE/30/Yes/T3 .63 A/R/Big
SVO/T5/85-85/TJ/30/Yes/T3 .63 A/R/Big
SVO/T5/85/PJ/30/Yes/T3 .63 A/R/Big
SVO/T5/85.5-86/PE   35/Yes/T3 .48 A/R/Big
TC/T5/83-86/PC1/30/No/T3 .63 A/R/Small
TC/T5/84/TF or TC/30/No/T3 .63 A/R/Small
TC/C3/85-86/PK1/35/No/T3 .63 A/R/small
TC/T5/87/LA2/35/Yes/IHI/Big
TC/T5/88/LA3/35/Yes/IHI/Big
TC/A4LD/87-88/LB3/35/Yes/IHI/Big
TC/A4LD/87-88/8UA/35/Yes/IHI/Big
XR4Ti/C3/early 85/PK/35/No/T3 .63 A/R/small
XR4Ti/C3/85-89/PK1/35/No/T3 .48 A/R/Small
XR4Ti/T9/85-89/PF2/35/No/T3 .48 A/R/Small
XR4Ti/T9/85-89/PF3/35/No/T3 .48 A/R/Small

Bill

(This post last updated 8 APR 07)
Thanks to all U.S. Military members past & present.