Mini Classifieds

1980 Pinto Wagon

Date: 02/29/2020 07:01 pm
Sunroof shade
Date: 06/19/2019 01:33 pm
72 pinto

Date: 06/23/2016 12:40 pm
Pinto drive train

Date: 06/29/2018 08:32 am
4 speed pinto transmission

Date: 05/13/2021 05:29 pm
72 pinto drag car

Date: 07/08/2017 08:53 pm
hubcaps

Date: 05/13/2021 05:33 pm
Looking for leaf spring insulators
Date: 04/04/2020 09:38 am
74 Wagon body parts and a couple of 79 bits

Date: 11/14/2019 04:02 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,573
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,185
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 625
  • Total: 625
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Long time old Ford guy, first time Pinto owner with lots of questions

Started by J.M., September 17, 2023, 04:40:12 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TIGGER

As for the shifter, it uses a rubber boot as the reverse lock out.  As it deteriorates, it gets sloppy.  There is a writeup someone did on this site that retrofits it with a spring from the hardware store and some e-clips.  I did it years ago on a beater 72 hatch that I had.  It worked real good.  It took all the slop out.  You will have to search for it.  Hope you get it running.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

Wittsend



Quote from: J.M. on September 19, 2023, 04:34:48 PM
... My car does bear a striking resemblance to his but it's not the same car. Title of my post was pure coincidence.  :D

Thanks for the reply and thanks for understanding that given the similarities of the cars and name why I asked. Hope the '74-up spindle and brakes work out. Let us know.

J.M.

Quote from: Wittsend on September 19, 2023, 01:00:48 PM
Soooo..., did you buy this Pinto Wagon from the individual that went by "Long Time Ford Man" here at the PCCA or are you him with a new ID? The red wagon, dark roof and alloy wheels look like his car. I ask because the title of the post has "Long Time Old Ford Guy" and the similarities with the title and the car seems to be connected??? Maybe not, just curious.

I just looked him up. Looks like he's still currently active on this site. The previous owner of my car had passed away some years ago. My car does bear a striking resemblance to his but it's not the same car. Title of my post was pure coincidence.  :D

J.M.

Quote from: Wittsend on September 19, 2023, 01:00:48 PM
Soooo..., did you buy this Pinto Wagon from the individual that went by "Long Time Ford Man" here at the PCCA or are you him with a new ID? The red wagon, dark roof and alloy wheels look like his car. I ask because the title of the post has "Long Time Old Ford Guy" and the similarities with the title and the car seems to be connected??? Maybe not, just curious.

I found it on Facebook marketplace. I bought it from a guy named Drew Ward near Woodstock, Georgia. If I recall correctly he said his wife bought it from an estate sale about 5 or 6 years ago but they never got around to doing anything with it. I believe he did say that there were a number of Pintos and parts in the estate sale. It's had an amature level single stage paint job put on it and the masking from the marker lights, etc. hasn't even been removed. I have no idea the history of the car beyond that.

Wittsend

Soooo..., did you buy this Pinto Wagon from the individual that went by "Long Time Ford Man" here at the PCCA or are you him with a new ID? The red wagon, dark roof and alloy wheels look like his car. I ask because the title of the post has "Long Time Old Ford Guy" and the similarities with the title and the car seems to be connected??? Maybe not, just curious.

rob289c

I hope you can find what you're looking for and your story has convinced me never to buy a '73, unless it is only for the engine!
rob289c

oldkayaker

Great looking Pinto.

The late Pinto/MII spindle should bolt up to the 73 Pinto suspension.  The 73P uses the same larger tie rod end as the late Pinto/MII.  The late Pinto/MII spindle has different locating dimensions and will probably raise the car's front about an inch.  There was a thread where somebody with a 73 that did it without reported problems but I suspect there may be some handling changes.  The factory 71-73P steel wheels had a smaller center hole that will not fit over the later Pinot/MII larger hub.  I do not know if your factory aluminum wheels will fit over the larger hub of the late Pinto/MII.

The gas tanks varied in dimensions over the years and the wagons had a different one from the sedans from what I have read.  I have not seen a direct replacement.  See Wittsend's comments above.

The 4 speed has a plastic saddle bushing that wears out at the bottom of the shifter (visible when shifter is lifted from the transmission).  There have been a few threads describing partial success with some replacement saddle bushings (see link below).  There is also a plastic/rubber doughnut spring at the base of the shifter that pushes up on the shifter keeping it from falling out of or into gear.  I do not recall any replacement for this spring doughnut.  Hurst use to sell a good shifter with a built in steel spring but it would be hard to find one.

https://racerwalsh.com/product/shifter-saddle-plastic-pinto-mustang-rwa3149/
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Wittsend

Welcome (back). Yes, the agony of owning an early Pinto. I might as well rip the band-aid off and tell you that the 1973 Pinto's have a one year only steering rack too. Activity here is pretty light but hopefully someone can enlighten you regarding the '74-up brakes. I THINK it has been done but don't have the background to say for sure. YEARS ago I was at a Pick Your Part and someone had removed but not taken a set of early rotors that were decent. I almost didn't get them but my wife convinced me that maybe I should go back inside (she was picking me up) and purchase them. I paid $8 ea., and that included the bearings. NOW, I'm so glad I did as IF they can be found at all they are about $150 each.


Regarding a gas tank you probably just have to find an original, or perhaps (with reduced volume) get a generic fuel cell that will hang below and require fabrication to mount. I have a '73 wagon myself but I don't know if the wagons and sedans have the same gas tank. My understanding is that though they have the same wheel base rearward of the axle the wagons extend back further.


Hopefully you will get it sorted out in due time. Unfortunately there are no Pinto specific vendors though SOME Mustang II parts MIGHT work. So that MIGHT be a pathway to getting a gas tank. Some times a part is said not to fit because it is not an exact fit but could work with minor modification or acceptance of change (like a smaller volume tank). I don't know if that is the case with a Pinto tank but might be worth looking into.

J.M.

Hi all,

After more than 15 years being a member of this forum I actually own a Pinto now. I originally joined years ago when I was looking for Pinto specific parts I needed for another project (I was putting a 2.3 in a Maverick and needed a Pinto oil pan). I've mostly owned and been into the Pinto's fellow underappreciated brother, the 70-77 Mavericks. I've also dabbled in 57-66 Fairlanes, Comets and Foxbodies over the past 18 years. I've always hoped to come across a decent deal on a Pinto to play with and that's finally happened.

I picked up a 73 wagon yesterday. The car is in decent shape but was someone's abandoned project and is missing a few things needed to get it back on the road. I'm in a bit of a time crunch as I'd like to drive this car to the Turkey Rod Run in Daytona this year.


Question #1 - Brakes. I'm finding that rotors and reman calipers are not available for a 73. Some searching on this forum shows that this has been the case for quite some time. My rotors have some pretty deep ridges in them and I'm assuming my calipers are shot since the car has been sitting for 10-15+ years. I have a set of spindles from a 74 Mustang II. Can I use these on the 73 and simply upgrade to the 74+ front brake parts that are readily available?


Question #2 - Gas tank. The car did not come with one. I see that this is another obsolete part. Just my luck. What are my interchange options here? My car is a '73 wagon. Is there a difference between body styles? Do I need to be targeting a specific range of years? At this point, finding a usable tank seems like it's going to be my biggest hurdle to jump in a short time frame. I basically need to find one within a month. I have advanced welding and fabrication skills. Are there any other tanks that are "close enough" that I can modify and adapt? 


One last question - the car is a 2.0/4 speed. The shifter in the 4 speed feels extremely vague with no detents to help find gears. Other cars I've driven with this shift pattern you generally have to push down on the shifter to get into reverse. This thing just flops around. It's basically a 50/50 shot whether you land in 1st or reverse. I can't imagine this is normal, are there any common problems with the shifter that could cause this? I haven't pulled it apart to investigate yet.

Greatly appreciate any input and help with the above questions. Pic of my car attached.