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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Born 1974 - Died 1996 Resurrected 2021-2022?

Started by PintoRoyL, February 01, 2021, 09:21:27 PM

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PintoRoyL

Got home from work and found a brand new water pump setting next to the front door. Yippy!! Will plan on installing it this coming weekend. The correct clutch and pressure plate is expected to arrive about Tuesday of next week. Was busy at work today, I forgot to make calls looking for the rubber grommet between the filler tube and fuel tank.
On yesterday's post, I forgot to mention that I did get the brakes bled after changing the flex hose.

PintoRoyL

davidpinto, thanks for the part number. I'll see if I can make the time to place a couple of calls tomorrow to see if I can locate a new one.
I finished pulling the tank out, drained what was left in it, changed the rear flex hose,  then began working on accessories. I mocked up the position of the oil cooler, then repositioned both the ignition coil,  and the vacuum thingy, so that I could mount the remote oil filter.

davidpinto

i needed one for mine when i put a new sender in the tank.i went to the ford dealership here in town.the part # is E1AZ-9072-B. the dealership has been here as long as i can remember, they didn't have it but they located one in richmond va.i called them and they shipped it to me.it was like 28 bucks to my door.hope this helps....
D BARHAM

PintoRoyL

OK, it's about 5pm Pacific Daylight Savings time, Saturday the 7th. Attempted to install the new clutch kit that I had purchased (it arrived yesterday), turns out that I ordered the wrong one. I ordered for an '88 turbo coupe (that's where the engine came from), but I should have ordered for an XR4TI, because that is the T9 trans going in. Oops. So I ordered the correct one, and will keep the one for 2.3/T5 in case I later run across a 2.3/T5 trans.  Next, I worked to make sure that the fuel tank is near empty. After not getting results with attempting to pressurize the tank with an air hose and a gas can at the other end of the fuel line, I pulled the hoses off the tank and began loosening the straps. Turns out that the tank is nearly empty already. Disconnected the vent line and now the tank is loose. I am a little wary of the rubber grommet where the filler tube enters the tank. Do those damage easily? Can I get a new one if I need to? Will I have to remove the left rear spring to get the tank out without damaging the grommet? I can wiggle the filler spout a little, but it is looking like it might be difficult to get back together by myself later. Should this be a two person operation? Are there any tips/tricks to removing/replacing the fuel tank? I think I will pause and take a breather here. I can still move forward and replace the rear flex hose, then bleed the brakes. The weekend won't be a total loss of time/effort. Maybe I can also mock up the location for the remote oil filter, and the oil cooler.

PintoRoyL

This last Saturday, I torqued the intake/exhaust manifolds, replaced the rear most freeze plug, then bolted and torqued down the flywheel. I was originally going to bolt on the clutch disc and pressure plate, but after looking them over, I decided to buy new ones. I sprayed PB Blaster on the rear brake line junction block, and on the fuel tank strap nuts, to get them ready for removal.
On Sunday, instead of working on the Pinto, I searched the internet for electrical schematics, available tires for 13" rims, browsed that Facebook ad that @Dtmix posted a link to, ordered a new water pump, and a new clutch kit from RockAuto, ordered an oil pump primer tool from Jegs, and also spent money at Amazon.com on non-automotive items. Later in the evening, I went back to RockAuto and ordered a new steering pump for my daily driver Caballero.

PintoRoyL

I thank the three you for the reply regarding 13" tires. I have 7 stock rims actually. Four mounted on the car, 1 as a spare,  plus 2 with studded snow tires. Of course, every tire is 25+ years old, since the last time that the car moved under it's own power was June/July 1996.
Besides tires, I should start thinking about dropping the fuel tank and making sure that it gets cleaned up/out. I should right now, as I am thinking about it, spray some PB Blaster on the fuel tank strap bolts to soak tonight/tomorrow. Sometime over this weekend, I need to put the new rear hose on the brake line junction block, bleed the brake system, replace the rear most freeze plug, install the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate, and torque both the intake and exhaust manifolds. After that I can make plans to drop the engine back into the car, then when Harbor Freight gets a shipment of transmission jacks back in stock again, I will install the transmission. I got a rain check for their 450# transmission jack when they had their 4th of July weekend sale. The rain check is due to expire on August 3rd, but no stores within 35 miles have had one, so hopefully they will honor the rain check after the 3rd. Being above 60 yrs old, I don't want to have to bench press the transmission into place, then have it hanging by the input shaft until I can get bolts started. Last time I did it that way on any vehicle I own was nearly 4 yrs ago when I did the v6 to v8 swap on my GMC Caballero when I also swapped the factory 3spd stick for a 5spd stick.
One question I still have is, until I reinstall the turbo intake/exhaust manifolds, can I use the old points distributor as long I  am running the old carbed intake/exhaust. I know that the lower part of the shaft is different between the two distributors, but the overall length is the same, and the drive gear is located in the same location as well. I don't yet have the harness for the efi/turbo, although I do have the ecu that came from the Merkur that I got the transmission from.

Dtmix

I looked at Facebook marketplace, and there is a set of four tires, rims, and wheel covers for a 1979/80 Pinto priced $100 for the set.  I believe it will fit the older models as well.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/334722930045666/ Scroll down to July 14th advertised by a Justin Rasp.

Hope that helps?

Happy Motoring!
Dan

Happy Motoring!
Dan

Dtmix

Maxxis Tires produces 13 inch WSW for both 165 and 185 (165 is on backorder with long wait times-I waited for 5 months before switching over to the 185 as I wanted to get the car on the road). Coker is where I got mine from at $169 a piece before Hagerty discount and it is possible you might find them at a lower price if you plow through the internet. https://www.cokertire.com/tires/maxxis-185-80r13.html

Frankly the 3/4 of an inch is hardly noticeable and had very little affect on the odometer, and the WSW was perfectly sized!

I did buy a refurbished Pinto rim to use as a Spare tire, as the one in the car was the space-saver that they used in the 1980 model year. I saved the space saver as it is original and never been down.  I found the rim online by googling refurbished 13" rims for Ford Pintos. Surprisingly, there are a lot out there.  The like-new refurbished ones I got was priced at retail between 60 to 65 bucks (price is back in November of 2020...nowadays, they have gone up.  I have no idea as for why...I found some OEM 13x5 Steel wheel rims are available at Stockwheels.com this afternoon for $65 if all redone (in black) or less if purchased as is and you can redo it by sandblasting and repainting it. It seems pricey...but I was happy with mine.

Happy Motoring!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

Wittsend

While there aren't many 13" tires available there are "some." Right now the Tire Rack has Kumho Solus TA-11's for sale in 185-70-13" for $71 each. I just think people need to be somewhat flexible on getting a tire "near" original. More so getting a better tire even if it means a slight variation. They also had Laufenn's for $61 but at $10 more the Kumho's are likely a better buy. Federal use to be a manufacture that had a decent selection of 13" tires.

People just need to shop around on line rather than dropping in at their local small town tire store, asking for 13" tires, and getting a big NO (because the demand is low to non-existent)! There isn't a large selection but there are "some" out there on the internet.

PintoTim2

There still is one size tire available for a 13" rim.   There are more sizes in 14" (BF Goodrich Radial TAs are what I like).  You can find rims (Summit Racing had some in 4 bolt pattern).   Even the 15" rim tire choices are very limited (those were the hot size in the 80s).   I think the 14" are the largest rim that look "best" to me on a Pinto (or Mustang II) : that is totally my opinion....   I'm converting my Pintos to 5 bolt rims, there are more 14" or even 15" rims that size available.    Even fox body rims fit on a Pinto - with probably a bolt on spacer on the fronts.   I have found used 14" rims to be very affordable at swap meets.  On my '72,  I have 14" 6" wide turbine style rims on it and they look great (P215 size - but it has custom flares, so I'm not sure if they would fit under stock fenders in the front)

PintoRoyL

Yesterday, I pulled the old brake shoes, and also replaced wheel cylinders on both sides. Finished in time for lunch. Took a two hour break,  then went after the front brakes. Removed and replaced the calipers with brand new ones, installed new flex hoses. Doing the brakes at all 4 wheels, I found that I must have done a brake job shortly before the engine quit 25 yrs ago. The rear had new hardware, springs, and retainers. Rear drums in very good condition. Front pads almost brand new, rotors good. All that is left to do with the brakes, is to buy another bottle of fluid, install the new flex hose on the rear, then bleed the system.
I should probably start looking for tires. I was reading some other threads, it seems that 13" passenger tires are no longer made? That is crazy, aren't there cars new with 13" these days? I guess I'll find out pretty soon. If I can't get 13", are there 14" rims with the 4 bolt pattern?

PintoRoyL

After my morning coffee, I sprayed the engine bay with degreaser and let soak for a couple hours while I ran a couple of quick errands. When I returned, I pressure washed again. I was able to get everything a bit cleaner than I left it after pressure washing last week. Later in the day, I swapped out the old master cylinder for a new one. I am glad that I sprayed the mounting bolts with PB Blaster last weekend, those bolts had me wondering if I would end up with rounded heads. Fortunatly, all turned out well, even with my big hands and small access clearance. After finishing the master, I  removed the rear wheels and brake drums, sprayed PB on the bolts and brake lines to get them ready for the wheel cylinder replacement, and new shoes tomorrow. I feel that the drums are in good enough condition to continue using them, nice and smooth inside, no scars.
I've got pics, but until I am able to add them to my posts, I will have to save them.
I need motivation to get back working on the engine again, not very much left to do. I need to remove it from the stand, replace the large rear soft plug,, bolt on the flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate, torque down the intake and exhaust manifolds, and then it should be ready to set in. I need to either create a wiring harness for the electronic ignition distributor, or put the old points dizzy back in again. I notice that both distributors are slightly different near the drive gear. Can anyone tell me if the old points dizzy will work on a turbo engine block, and not mess up the oil pressure?

PintoRoyL

I bought a pressure washer from Harbor Freight on Saturday. Sunday I hooked it up and washed the engine bay of the Pinto. Did a decent job, but I need to spray some degreaser and wash it one more time. Nearly all of my Pinto brake parts have arrived, so I sprayed PB Blaster on several nuts/bolts to soak. Not sure if I will actually work on the brakes during the weekday evenings, probably will wait until the weekend. Have new master cylinder, rear shoes, and wheel cylinders in hand. New front calipers, pads, hardware kit, inner and outer front bearings in hand also. Waiting on the rear hose, and both front hoses (due to arrive this afternoon). Will decide on new drums and rotors after disassembly.

dga57

If you want to "like" a certain person, click on their username, which will pull up their profile.  Then, you'll see on their profile the words "positive" and "negative".  Click on the one which best describes how you feel about that person.  It will automatically add one to their number.


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

PintoRoyL

I have a question. Many people have responded with good advice and suggestions. How do I give their response a "like"? I see a statistic for feedback below their avatar. Does that represent the number of "likes" they have earned?

Wittsend

Yea, when the light bub finally went on and I realized Windows (7 at the time) had the Snipping Tool it was a gamer changer for me. Now if we could only paste pictures into the body of the Forum text like you can into an email that would be awesome! Probably a security reason they need to be attachments???

Dtmix

I didn't have much luck with photoshop...try the snipping tool, as it did the trick! Fingers crossed...

Happy Motoring!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

PintoRoyL

Sounds easy enough. I tried reducing the size using Photoshop Elements, but they still would not load. My earlier pics were larger,  so I am confused as to why these will not load. I'm not sure if it shows on other's screens,  but my desktop and my phone both show a padlock at the very far right of the screen after clicking on the "your projects" category and scrolling to my thread. It has been that way for quite some time, do you think that I did something to myself that prevents photos from being added? Text posts seem to work, but not when including photos.

Dtmix

Yeah...the picture problem is an ongoing issue.  I learned of a workaround from another Pinto member...

1.) type "snipping tool" in your search-bar on the bottom left screen if you have Windows. 
2.) The free app will appear. (Do this once you have the desired picture on your screen first). 
3.) Click "New" on the pop-up and shade the area of the picture you want and save it as a new picture to your pictures album.  This reduces the size of the picture. 
4.) Once you are posting on the Pinto forum, you click attach "choose file" below your posting and select the snipped picture that you have saved. (Note: Although it says you can do four per post, but I suggest no more than two per posting as the size would exceeded).
5.)  If you wish to do more than two, just type "continued" and "post" at the end of your first post.  This will let the reader know there's more pictures coming.  Once posted, you click "reply" to create the next post and upload two more pictures.

I hope my directions is clearer than sludge in a barn-find Pinto?  If not, let me know and I will try to create a screenshot tutorial...

Happy Motoring!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

PintoRoyL

I spent this weekend mostly working on the Pinto motor. Replaced the old timing belt and tensioner with new, removed the tbird oil pan, installed new high volume oil pump and new pickup tube, drilled out plug for the dip stick, installed the Pinto oil pan. Removed motor mounts and brackets, installed new mounts in correct brackets on '88 engine, exhaust gasket and manifold is lightly snugged on, and intake manifold is loose with two bolts so that I can measure/cut all of my new hoses. I had also replaced the 4 expansion plugs that I can reach (3 under the exhaust, 1 at the rear of the head) until I remove the engine from the stand (then I will get the large one at the rear of the block).
I ordered brake parts a couple days ago, new master cylinder, rear wheel cylinders, front disc pads. Picked up both front calipers at NAPA yesterday. In writing this, I realize that I need to order rear brake shoes, plus I need to order new clutch plate and disc. I have a needle bearing pilot bearing, throw out bearing already. The engine block half of a remote oil filter adapter is installed, and an oil cooler is on the way.
I am happy with what I got accomplished over this weekend, considering that I am the only able bodied person at home, taking care of my wife, and the pets, and the shopping.

Wittsend


Quote from: PintoRoyL on June 19, 2021, 10:21:16 PM
I resized my pics to less than 1MB each. Let's see if they work now.


Later post: Pics still not working.


Near 1 MB would still be three times too big. Got to get them individually down below the number I circled in red (Image below, click on it to enlarge, read it). And frankly that limit will make for a very large image that the slide bars will be needed to sectionally view the picture. Usually when I post an image to a forum they are between 50KB and 150KB. And the 150KB images pretty much fill the screen. For reference the image I'm displaying here is a mere 24KB. Unfortunately the resolution a modern phone/camera is capable of, and the capacity to display/store the image on Forums like this are worlds apart.

PintoRoyL


PintoRoyL

I resized my pics to less than 1MB each. Let's see if they work now.


If the pics are here, the first is with engine ready to pull out, the second, engine/trans hanging on the hoist.

dga57

Roy,
Glad to see that you're able to post again!  Wish I could be of some help with the photo issue but I've never been able to post pictures either. 
Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

PintoRoyL

Have been trying to post since Memorial weekend to provide an update. On Saturday, May 29, I noticed that the birds nesting in my engine hoist had gone. I decided to wait one more day, just in case. On Sunday the 30th, with no parent/fledgling activity, I began disconnecting all of the ancillary connections for the engine removal process. I got everything ready under the hood. I disconnected all of the electrical, vacuum, ign coil, throttle cable, pulled the fan and radiator, ect., ect., then sprayed all of the major bolts with PB Blaster to soak overnight. On Monday the 31st, I disconnected the stick shift handle, removed the driveshaft, motor and trans bolts/mounts, speedo cable, backup light wiring, exhaust pipe flange, clutch cable, and fuel lines. I then hooked the load leveler to the hoist and pulled the engine/trans as one unit. The old engine/trans is now in the carport alongside the engine that is going to go in, while the 5-spd trans to be connected to it, is in the garage.
My next objective is to remove/swap the intake/exhaust manifolds from the old engine to the one going in to the car. As I looked for gaskets at Rock Auto, I saw that there are three different gasket types; a round, an oval, and a "D" type. I need to make the time to see which type I will need, and I am hoping that both heads use the same type.

Something is up with my computer I think. when I tried to update over the last couple of weeks, I was also trying to include pics. I kept getting some sort of error message, or a message that I had double posted. As you can see the two previous posts to this one, I have figured out that I can post, but only without pics. The pics that I was trying to include are smaller than 3MB, so I can not figure out why they will not work. Maybe the wrong format? They are JPEG's, so I don't know why they don't work.

PintoRoyL

Cannot post including pics, error page pops up.
Seems to work without pics

PintoRoyL


65ShelbyClone

Although the T9 is not as strong as a T5, they are perfectly fine in a stock or mildly modified XR4Ti and would have an easier time in a Pinto due to the lighter weight. In fact, if yours has a 6.75" rear, that is probably the weaker link. The European crowd also mentions that a stock T9 gets balky to shift at high RPM, but a 2.3T is unlikely to rev that high without a lot of work. They were putting them behind built 2.0s and Cosworth 2.0s that twist 7500+. A 2.3T that can do that with purpose will be making way too much power for the gearbox anyway.
If you have an '85 ("E3") turbo manifold with the round bosses on each runner, look it over to make sure it isn't cracked. They often do between 2 and 3. The '85.5+ E6SE manifold is much less likely to crack and it flows better.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

PintoRoyL

I was raised down there in Cypress/La Palma. When in my 20's, I most often visited the Pick-a-Part up near La Mirada. It seems to me that there was also a self-serve wrecking yard on Beach Blvd, down the road from Knott's Berry Farm that I had used occasionally (30+ years ago). I am living immediately south of Seattle, Wa. now, and most of the yards here are not self-serve, but we do have Pick-n-Pull which is self-serve. I am right in the middle of four of them, one each, 25 and 50 miles north, and 25 and 50 miles south. You talk about HAPPY, my wife is not thrilled about me working on the Pinto, she has no appreciation for "classic" cars, but getting to the yards is therapeutic to me, I get a chance to relax and be with my own thoughts and imagination.
I'm currently thinking that I will install the  turbo coupe engine using the NA manifolds and carburetor from the old motor for a time to 1) see if the motor even runs, 2) to operate the vehicle a bit to see what 25 years of deterioration has done to the various systems, ie: brakes, electrical, ect., and 3) take the time to learn how efi and turbo systems work.

Wittsend

Glad to hear you are finding obscure parts. Regarding the T-9, how strong 'strong' needs to be is probably how you drive the car. If you are not inclined to fabricate and drive with reasonableness it should be OK. The Murkur harness is actually desirable. It is a stand alone. The Turbo Coupe has everything comingled together and the 87/88 years are the worse. I spent DAYS sorting through my 88 harness and still had about 20 wires I wasn't sure of. But I was using the T/C steering column and that entailed a lot of extra consideration (click on image to enlarge). NOTE THAT ALL THE COMPUTERS ARE PINNED DIFFERENTLY!!! So, whatever harness you wind up using make sure the right wires go to the right pins.


Curious, is this a self serve yard you found the Murkur in? Up until about 2016 I went to the Pick Your Park 50% off sales every month. Then I'd go over the U-Pull Parts yard. Unfortunately the U-Pull Parts yard folder in 2016 (it is now a Copart yard). And the Pick Your Part yard now thinks mid 80's Mercedes and early Miata's are "collector cars." What had been a large part of my "car life" for 20+ years came to an abrupt end. I'd get there at 6:30AM (after a 45 mile drive) and stay at times until closing at 6:00PM. It would be 100+ degrees and I'd be filthy and HAPPY! Anyway, back to Murkur's. Occasionally I'd se one in the early 2000's. Then nothing for years. I was in the Stanton Pick Your Part one day (maybe around 2008?) and there were four side by side. Then I never saw another the past 12 or so years. So, I'm glad that you found a Murkur. It is quite a rare find.