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74 4 spd and rear axle
Date: 09/26/2018 03:51 pm
1972 Pinto for sale

Date: 05/19/2021 12:41 am
Needed- Good 71-73 Rear End or parts- close to AL
Date: 09/15/2019 12:38 pm
Odds and Ends 1976-77 Pinto Wagon

Date: 07/17/2019 05:23 pm
Lower Alternator bracket
Date: 08/26/2017 05:11 pm
parts needed
Date: 02/20/2017 07:58 am
1973 Pinto hatchback for sale

Date: 11/13/2023 11:30 am
1971 Pinto Do It Yourself Manual

Date: 03/06/2017 01:19 am
73 Runabout

Date: 11/20/2017 03:19 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Back to work on my Cleveland powered Pinto

Started by Tonycando, November 23, 2020, 03:47:10 PM

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Tonycando

Yep  got Tinitus myself  I sleep with the radio on so I don't concentrate on the ringing. Hope you get better

Reeves1

Having a hard time getting motivated lately.

B2 car I have to change the MSD dizzy stopper (maybe springs too) as it is not advancing enough.
Looked at it today though.

Blue car is ready for Header build.
Looked at it, re-arranged the tubes (cut a NOS set apart to use). Have to think it out some more.

Took a bit sick last Wed. Not sure what it is / was. May get tested next week ?
Plus my right ear starting ringing about 5-6 weeks ago. Drives me crazy & is hard to focus on stuff.
Getting checked out this week.....

Tonycando

Great projects  met a fellow in Calgary at a car show with a Corvair that made me take a second look with the apparently dealer installed turbo. Neat little car  I'm the same in thought,I'd like to do only one project at a time but never seems to work out for me   I have a beautiful low mile 2003 Marauder that I'm gathering parts for to supercharge. It's my old man hotrod. Lol

Wittsend


Thankfully I have not lost anyone to Covid - yet. While I'm pretty much a "homebody" I do miss going to the Bi-Monthly Cars and Coffee. My Pinto is one of seven "old" cars that I own. And all things considered it is one of the better running of my cars - but that isn't saying much. Back in October 2019 I started work on my 61 Corvair wagon that has sat for 25 years. It is the worse of all my old cars, I'm getting old and I just took a 'now or never' attitude towards it. I decided to make it a Winter only project (So. Cal. here so Winter mean daily lows in the 50's-60's) regardless of how many Winters it took. If I felt like it was getting too overwhelming I'd just part ways with it.


In the Spring of 2020 I fully intended to get to work on my 20 year Sunbeam Tiger project. Covid came in March, my son came home from university and with him around working on the Tiger in the garage was going to be difficult and that got delayed. The Corvair project just crept along but recently I hit a wall with it. In fact, lacking space all the Corvair engine parts are in the back of my Pinto wagon for safe keeping (pic 1).


My son went back to work in September so not having him under foot had me FINNALY starting panel replacement on the Tiger (pic 2). I surely had a definitive plan of 'one car at a time, in a certain order' and that has all changed. But the good news is that I'm finally getting to projects that have sat 20 and 25 years respectively. And, thought I hate the split attention it is progress. So, gentlemen press on. In some ways the restrictions of Covid are a blessing in that the time isn't drawn away to other things.

Tonycando

Hi Dan. Yes it is good for the soul to keep occupied it seems. The manual actually has not come in yet, this is me going through my bagged and tagged collection of bits and pieces and found I guess I was thinking when I started this project from nothing about 5 yrs ago  sorry for your loss as well  while my Father did not die from COVID all the restrictions kept me from being able to travel to see him.

Dtmix

I am sorry to hear of your loss. I lost my dad due to COVID in April, so I can relate with your sense of loss and frustrations. Hence, my taking on the pandemic project with my Ford Pinto Squire Wagon this year. I was surprised how therapeutic it has been! I suspect you will find the same with your Cleveland project as well!

I am glad your shop manual has arrived! It's fun leafing through it before even starting anything! A dream-starter, that's for sure!

Let us know how the manual is as for directions, illustrations, and if part numbers are identified as many of us would like to know!

Happy Motoring,
Dan

Sent from my iPad
Happy Motoring!
Dan

Tonycando

I ordered a radiator that I hope I should be able to make work infront of the rad support  once I get that mounted and hooked up that should be the last of required system needed to run and then on to the new electrical harness,going to get some help on that for sure  but am looking forward to hearing the Cleveland come back to life.

Reeves1

Bought 200 LTS of Fury 108 (same as VP C12) $800.00 , thinking I was going to get the car out lots..... had it out for two short drives !

No work on the blue car since spring. Have to get back at that one !

All needs $ and there is not much work in the Patch.

Tonycando

Quote from: Reeves1 on November 27, 2020, 11:17:36 AM
Bout time ! LOL



Yea I know hey. My should take about a year project lol,It's been a couple of brutal years with Alberta's economy,loss of life long friends and just recently my Dad passed away in Manitoba and with all this covid crap could not be there with him  Brutal what this is doing to humanity but I gotta get going on this project cause I ain't getting any younger that's for sure.

Reeves1


Tonycando

This is the manual I ordered  hopefully it will work and if not I'll add it to my collection.

Dtmix

Most definitely the Ford Manuals over the mainstream publications, due to using actual diagrams and having parts numbers included. As for the DIY manual, that is a generic manual for tune ups, replacing bulbs, etc as Ford was trying to market the Pinto as a low maintenance car that is easily serviced by a layperson. I also have that copy if one wants a picture of it. It's with a white cover with a large green wrench.

Happy Motoring,
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

oldkayaker

The "1971 Car Shop Manual Ford Pinto" was a single manual (model specific) unlike the later years when Pinto shared the multiple volumes with the other Ford models, like pictured by Dtmix above.  There are over thirty on ebay at the moment from $8 to $32.  There was also a Ford "1971 Pinto Do It Yourself Manual" which I had but can not find at the moment (do not know the difference).  I would recommend the Ford publications instead of Chilton and others.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Tonycando

Quote from: Dtmix on November 25, 2020, 12:20:19 PM
Ford produced shop manuals in several volumes for the dealership service department technicians on a yearly basis. Each volume targets a particular area such as body, engine, electrical, and so forth. I purchased a 5 volume set for 1980 Ford Pinto for about $70. You can buy just one volume which tends to go for $28 to $32. The volume pertaining to body would be the book you want if you do not wish to get the entire set. It's useful with part numbers, step by step directions, pictures, and diagrams. It's different than Chilton's shop books. I brought mine through eBay. If you cannot find it, you can try Auto literature retailers. If you want me to help you find it, let me know the year. Your pics looks like a 71 or 72?

Happy Motoring,
Dan

Yes in fact my build is a 1971 and if you do come across a manual please let me know.
Quote from: Dtmix on November 26, 2020, 10:12:00 AM
Great minds indeed! I hope that you'll find it helpful as it illustrates every part and gives clear and concise directions every step of the way! I am attaching pictures of my 1980 manuals for others to see. Ford produced one for each model year for the use of dealership technicians.

Happy Motoring! Happy Thanksgiving!
Dan

dga57

Quote from: Dtmix on November 26, 2020, 10:12:00 AM
Great minds indeed! I hope that you'll find it helpful as it illustrates every part and gives clear and concise directions every step of the way! I am attaching pictures of my 1980 manuals for others to see. Ford produced one for each model year for the use of dealership technicians.

Happy Motoring! Happy Thanksgiving!
Dan

Yep, worth their weight in gold!!! 


Happy Thanksgiving guys!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Dtmix

Great minds indeed! I hope that you'll find it helpful as it illustrates every part and gives clear and concise directions every step of the way! I am attaching pictures of my 1980 manuals for others to see. Ford produced one for each model year for the use of dealership technicians.

Happy Motoring! Happy Thanksgiving!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

Tonycando

Quote from: Dtmix on November 25, 2020, 12:20:19 PM
Ford produced shop manuals in several volumes for the dealership service department technicians on a yearly basis. Each volume targets a particular area such as body, engine, electrical, and so forth. I purchased a 5 volume set for 1980 Ford Pinto for about $70. You can buy just one volume which tends to go for $28 to $32. The volume pertaining to body would be the book you want if you do not wish to get the entire set. It's useful with part numbers, step by step directions, pictures, and diagrams. It's different than Chilton's shop books. I brought mine through eBay. If you cannot find it, you can try Auto literature retailers. If you want me to help you find it, let me know the year. Your pics looks like a 71 or 72?

Happy Motoring,
Dan

Thanks for your advise, great minds must think alike as I just ordered what I hope I need off of Enay.


Dtmix

Ford produced shop manuals in several volumes for the dealership service department technicians on a yearly basis. Each volume targets a particular area such as body, engine, electrical, and so forth. I purchased a 5 volume set for 1980 Ford Pinto for about $70. You can buy just one volume which tends to go for $28 to $32. The volume pertaining to body would be the book you want if you do not wish to get the entire set. It's useful with part numbers, step by step directions, pictures, and diagrams. It's different than Chilton's shop books. I brought mine through eBay. If you cannot find it, you can try Auto literature retailers. If you want me to help you find it, let me know the year. Your pics looks like a 71 or 72?

Happy Motoring,
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

dga57

Not off-hand, but if I think of anyone I'll let you know,


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Tonycando

Quote from: dga57 on November 24, 2020, 08:13:38 AM
Glad to have you back! 

Dwayne :)

Thanks Dwayne  would you know anyone with assembly diagrams for the window and door assembly procedures.

dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Tonycando

Had to stop progress for a couple of yrs but getting that itch again to get her going,posted pics years ago of the build in progress but a short recap is it's a 351 Cleveland aluminum rod engine solid lifter cam,top loader 4 speed,and 9" diff with 3:89 gears,should be a fun ride when it's done and still need the community's help so stay tuned with my questions 

Thanks all