Mini Classifieds

Hoard of Pinto parts
Date: 12/17/2016 04:14 pm
1979 hatch needed
Date: 05/13/2018 08:52 pm
1975 Pinto bumpers
Date: 10/24/2019 01:45 pm
Wanted - 71-73 Pinto grill
Date: 12/15/2016 03:32 pm
74 Pinto Hub Caps & Trim Rings

Date: 02/28/2018 09:37 am
2.8 Engine mount brackets
Date: 12/28/2016 11:42 am
WTB. Seat cover or material LFront
Date: 07/01/2019 03:17 pm
Selling off many SVO parts/motors etc.

Date: 07/13/2018 02:21 pm
Dumping '80 yellow Pinto

Date: 06/21/2017 03:45 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Pinto Powered Mustang Roadster

Started by rob289c, July 19, 2020, 06:19:07 PM

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dga57

It looks like your bodywork is coming along well!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

rob289c

Engine and tranny out of frame and separated.  Just getting the engine mounted to the stand was a project unto itself.  I had to make my own brackets.  The ones that came with the stand worked fine for my 289, but no the 2300.
rob289c

rob289c

Here are four pics of my bodywork to date.  I'm no expert but so far, so good.  I did some this AM, but it started to sprinkle so I pushed it back inside and did some other chores.  I am going to go back out to do more spreading and sanding.  I'll be glad when this phase is complete.  More rain is coming so I better get back out there.  I do it outside to keep the dust out of my shop.  If I can keep on the bodywork, I have the week of 8/15 off so my target would be to spray the underside, frame and body with another coat of epoxy then, and if time the frame, underside and interior black.  I can do the exterior body later or next year if I run out of time.  Once the frame is painted I can assemble the front suspension, do all the brakes, figure out my steering and get the engine back in. 
rob289c

dga57

Quote from: rob289c on July 23, 2022, 08:36:54 PM
I will send progress pictures tomorrow...

Welcome back!  Looking forward to your pictures.  Surely I'm not the only person here who has been patiently waiting to see when you were going to resume work on your project. 

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

rob289c

I'm back!!!  I started back on my project a few weeks ago.  I did a little frame repair/stiffening and now I am into the bodywork faze.  I'm not that good at it so I spend a lot of time applying and sanding body filler.  I will take and post some pics tomorrow.  I have the Mustang rear seat frames and seat covers at the upholstery shop; he said I will have it back in September.  I ordered wheel adapters to get me from the Mustang II front end kit's 5x4 1/2 lug pattern to the same as the Mustang rear 4x4 1/2 lug pattern so I can use the same 4-lug rims at all four corners.  The adapters also widen the front track as the Pinto/Mustang II is narrower than the Mustang rear so it will be more stable.  I relocated the Mustang parking brake cable brackets from the frame rails to behind the rear seat so now the transplanted Pinto parking brake is functional.  I scraped, wire wheeled, then used Simple Green and a small wire brush on the underside so it is now clean and  I can epoxy and paint.  I am trying to get all the frame and bodywork done so I can spray epoxy and paint, then I can start assembling the vehicle.  I have the engine out and mounted on the engine stand.  My plan is to remove accessories, clean, sand, prime, paint.  I don't plan to do any internal engine work.  I will paint the block and oil pan Ford Blue, leave the head natural, remove unnecessary emission controls, and reinstall back in the frame.  I have a mid-80's T-bird valve cover, a chrome air cleaner, and a ceramic coated header to "dress things up".  There will be no hood so the engine will always be on display.  I need to fabricate tranny mount brackets to lower the tranny a little.  The Pinto tranny position is higher than the Mustang so the 23 1/4" driveshaft is too close to the Mustang driveshaft tunnel.  This project has been interesting and I need to get it done!  I want to retire when the economy straightens out and this is my last automotive project.  I have my '67 Mustang Fastback, my Harley, and this Pinto/Mustang buggy (no longer a trike) will be the extent of my toys.  If I have any issues getting it titled, it will become my golf cart to buzz around the neighborhood!  I will send progress pictures tomorrow...
rob289c

rob289c

This past Wednesday, on our last day of relatively warm weather, I sprayed the engine side of the firewall and underside of the trans hump gloss black.  I used tractor enamel with hardener so it should be fairly durable.  I let it cure until yesterday (Saturday) and reinstalled it temporarily back onto the chassis.  Today I am going to temporarily mount the dash and start figuring out how I am going to shorten the steering shaft to give me more access to the cockpit without moving the steering wheel too far forward.  I think I am going to eliminate the broken rag joint and use a 3/4-36 spline x 3/4 DD U-joint directly on the splined end of the steering rack and eliminate the factory u-joint and the overall 8" of round shaft that goes to the rag joint/rack end of the steering shaft.  I may have to use a short section of 3/4 DD shaft stock and a coupler to get the overall length correct to allow cockpit access and put the steering wheel in a comfortable position.  As I've said before, this is an "engineer it as you go" project!  I had previously cut the parking brake mount assy out of the Pinto and welded it into the driveshaft tunnel of the Mustang so it is between the seats like a Pinto vs under the dash on a 67 Mustang.  I installed the parking brake lever and cut the vinyl out of the old seat cover and will have the upholstery shop modify the new seat cover to make a neat access hole for the lever.  I did a hack job of cutting the section out of the old, but the upholstery shop will do a much nicer, neater job with the new.  I'm just trying to mock things up at this point.   Today I am also going to install the trans mount bolts so the tranny isn't hanging, requiring a jack stand or blocks of wood under the tranny while in Winter storage.  It is just about ready to push into the corner for Winter hibernation.  Dan, you are welcome to stop by any time you are in the Rochester area.  I look forward to meeting you!
rob289c

Dtmix

Thanks for sharing your updates and pictures! I will have to swing by your place to see it the next time I am in Rochester!

Happy Motoring!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

rob289c

Yesterday I finished patching and stitch-welding what was left of the firewall.  It looks like Frankenstein but welding patches inside and out stiffened it nicely.  It was corroded and flimsy.  It will be covered by diamond plate so it won't be seen.  Today I sprayed two coats of epoxy primer and it is now curing.  While I had primer mixed, I shot the leading edge of the roof that I welded on earlier this Spring.  One more thing I may do before putting it away is to shorten the steering shaft to move the steering wheel a little more forward.  That will complete the need for sectioning the dash and cowl to give me more room to enter the cockpit.  I am just about done for the season, so I will probably power wash the whole unit and put it away until Spring.  I hope to have more time to spend on it next year...
rob289c

rob289c

I've been off the grid for a while, mainly because I didn't make much progress on my project over the Summer.  I have done a few things recently.  When I put the dash in place I realized I couldn't get into the "cockpit".  I decided I would have to section the cowl and dash to move everything forward.  I also (mistakenly) decided to narrow the dash.  I cut about 3" off each end, then welded it back together.  I will be relocating the headlight switch to the former windshield wiper switch position and I filled in the spots where the vents were.  After sectioning the cowl, I have plenty of access so I didn't need to narrow the dash after all.  Too late, and I will make it work.  It cost me the better part of an afternoon.  There is a 79 in a nearby junkyard that I may consider salvaging but I probably won't.  The cowl sectioning consisted of cutting out the vent portion and welding it back together.  You'll see from the pics that it is really narrow and provides the room I needed to get in and out of the cockpit.  I am going to remove the cowl/firewall from the chassis and weld up what was left of the rotted floor.  The trans hump will eventually get covered with diamond plate and will be secured to the frame.  I am going to fabricate some radiator support to firewall rods like a Model A to further stiffen things up.  I wish I had accomplished more over the Summer but had a lot of other priorities.  I have a few weeks before it gets rolled into its Winter resting spot so I will post any further progress.  Thank you for reading...
rob289c

rob289c

I haven't made much progress on my progress...I have been caught up in a multitude of other tasks.  The two attached pics show recent work.  I finally welded the leading edge of the roof on and ground the weld down.  I have a little more to go, then I can clean, sand, spray more epoxy, then apply body filler to complete the roof work.  The other pic is a side view to show you how it is coming along.  Note the 23 1/4" driveshaft on the floor.  I hope to get more done this weekend and l a lot more done before I have to stop work in November.  I have too many irons in the fire...I will be happy to retire in the next few years!
rob289c

rob289c

Here are some pics from today's work.  I found a spot on the leading edge were the inside width is 48" and the same dimension on the roof in a sport where I could shorten it.  I cut the leading edge off the front portion of the leftover Mustang roof and about a foot off the roof as it was.  I then welded the support piece in place and welded the leading edge on.  The entire roof is now shorter making it easier to get in and out, and the leading edge I still have more welding to do but for now it is tacked on well.  After that it will be grinding, then epoxy primer, body filler on all roof weld joints and block sanding.  The driveshaft should be done this week.  I look forward to getting it back so I can get it and other associated parts fit properly in the chassis.  I have a long way to go...
rob289c

rob289c

Please do...I will be going to NC Aug 18-23...otherwise I will be home.  Yesterday I did my driveshaft measurements and this AM I took the driveshaft to a shop to have it shortened to 23 1/4" and have new u-joints installed.  When I get it back I can modify my driveshaft tunnel.  Tomorrow I am going to start some body filler work on my weld seams.  I am also going to cut the roof back to about the point where the rear windows are, then cut about 6" of the leading edge of the roof and graft it on to the roof I welded on the Mustang portion.  It will stiffen the leading edge up so it doesn't flap in the wind.  I saw it flapping when I towed it to the weld shop last Fall.  It will also make for easier ingress and egress with a shorter roof.  It may ba hard to visualize but I will send pics to clear things up.
rob289c

Dtmix

I was in Rochester last week, but I was not able to find time to contact you to see if I could come by to see your Trike project and other Pintos you may have.  My apologies...

I will def keep you in mind when I return to Rochester in August.

Happy Motoring!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

rob289c

I discovered that I am going to have to do some driveshaft tunnel modification on the Mustang half of the vehicle.  The Pinto tranny tailshaft is in a much higher position than the Mustang.  I am going to have to get the driveshaft shortened (to about 24") so I can get it mocked up then modify the tunnel. I save parts of the Pinto tunnel so I should be able to use them.  Of course this means I will have to modify my seat frame so it will sit with the higher tunnel.  In the meantime I will shift gears and do some body work for a change of pace.  I will take and post some pictures so you can see what I'm playing with.
rob289c

dga57

Glad to see that you're back at it!  It's quite a project and I can't wait to see how it turns out!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

rob289c

I'm back...I have started back on my project.  When I cut the Pinto up for my project, I cut the cowl away from the firewall...I spent a full day last weekend welding them back together.  I did a hack job cutting it apart so putting it back together wasn't much fun, especially with all the seam sealer that was melting and burning!  Today I was making patch panels for what was left of the floor area of the firewall.  The entire floor was rotted away so I fabbed in patches.  Not real pretty but will be functional.  I will finish it tomorrow, then fit it to the frame and figure out how to marry it to the Mustang driveshaft tunnel.  Once it is fit properly I will make some markings so I know exactly where it goes.  I need to remove it, finish the metal work, then do the corrosion work, prime, paint and then re-attach permanently.  I am working with junk and making it up as I go along.  I'll be glad when this part of the job is over!
rob289c

rob289c

I'm using mechanicals from both the Mustang and the Pinto.  The rear half of the Mustang is where I will sit.  So the body panels, seat, rear suspension, rear axle, rear brakes and, tail lights are Mustang.

I grafted the Pinto front subframe to the Mustang rear frame.  So the Pinto portion is the engine, tranny, driveshaft (to be shortened), radiator, front suspension and brakes, cowl, firewall, dash and components, steering wheel and shaft, wiring harnesses, parking brake lever, and misc. other parts. 

Since it's no longer going to be a trike I should inquire about changing the title of the thread.  The trike idea was cool but I think it will be easier to make it a 4-wheel buggy.  I'm committed now since I already bought the front end kit and 4 rims!  I was out doing my oil change and tire rotation on the daily driver and spent a few minutes looking at my project wishing Spring was here!

As for my profession, I manage 4 locations for a large propane company.  My entire civilian career has been in the energy and HVAC industries.  This time of year we are extremely busy.  I have Drivers and Techs that work all hours so when they're working, I'm working.  I spen 6 days a week in the office and Sunday is on and off the computer supporting my men.    I am retired from the military (23 years of Navy and Air Force), 19 of those years were Reserve and Air Guard. 

I'll be 60 this coming year so a few more years of this and I'll be able to slow down a bit and do something different.  Then I'll have more time for my Harley, Mustang, and the Mustang-Pinto Buggy I'm building! 
rob289c

Dtmix

Your logic makes complete sense! For some odd reason I was thinking you were using the mechanicals from a Pinto as you parted out a Pinto for this project, although having a Mustang rear body.

Are you a firefighter or an EMT? ER doc? Regardless, thank you for your service during these trying times!

Happy Motoring,
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

rob289c

Thanks Dan, but I'm all set.  I have received 3 of the 4 I ordered and the 4th one will be here soon.  I ordered the 4x4.5 bolt pattern rather than the Pinto 4/108mm pattern as my Mustang rear axles are 4x4.5 and it is going to be a lot easier to get the 5x4.5 rotors that come with my front end kit drilled for 4x4.5 than it would be to remove the Mustang axles  and have them re-drilled for the 4x108mm pattern.  I want them all to be the same bolt pattern so I can rotate tires.  I just got a BO notification that my front end kit still isn't complete and there is no estimated ship time.  That's fine with me.  I don't need it till May and they won't charge me until they ship.  They can store the parts for now, rather than me storing them!  I am looking forward t Spring so I can get back on this project!  For now I work 7 days a week and emergency calls don't stop just because it's Christmas...
rob289c

Dtmix

Hi Rob,

Those wheels are similar to the ones available as factory options from Ford. I recently saw two of those original OEM wheels on Amazon priced at $160 for two. The seller did not have the other two, but in your case that's all you need. Would you like for me to locate the ad again for you?

Happy Motoring and holidays!
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

rob289c

I ordered and will soon be receiving 4 of these rims.  The pic shows 5-lug but I will be getting 4--lug.  I think they will look cool on my Stang-Bucket (a play on T-Bucket).  I got an update on my front end kit...the BO parts will be received on 12/28 and should ship shortly thereafter. 
rob289c

rob289c

I've been collecting parts for the last few weeks but I won't be working on it until at least April, and maybe May depending on how the Winter goes.  In November I rearrange my shop and everything goes into its Winter spot, not to be moved until Spring.  I will attempt to attach the parts list that represents my orders and receipts to give you an idea of what's in receipt and yet to come.  Green shade means it is been received.  Yellow means it has been received, but not by me.  I wasn't allowed to ship the header to NY State but I will have it in my possession before Spring.  Unshaded means I have not yet ordered or received.  I have a few more things to order so I will have plenty of material to work with once the weather breaks.  The first mission will be to degrease and clean the underside of the Mustang, including the rear end and leaf springs, then spray epoxy primer and black paint.  Then I can start/finish bodywork and get ready for primer and paint (frame and body).  Once that is done, I can detail the engine and tranny, weld the cowl back to the firewall, and weld that assembly to the frame.  Then I can start putting everything together.  I have plenty of time for new ideas to pop into my head so there will be a plan.  Thank you for inquiring...I won't have many updates through the Winter but I will have questions and updates on which parts I have purchased or plan to purchase. 
rob289c

Dtmix

Hey, Rob...I know it's only a couple weeks since you last posted, but wondered if there are any updates on your trike project? The weather has been holding up, so thought maybe you may have done something more? I cannot wait until Spring! Chuckling...

Are you getting all the parts you need, or is there something that you are looking for? Maybe we as members can pitch in the search?

Happy Motoring,
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

rob289c

Thank you for the advice...I reached out to NY State DMV long before starting the project and I have all the info saved.  I think it's going to be easier to register now that it is going to be a 4-wheel vehicle rather than my original plan of a 3-wheel.  That would have been a bit messier.  Since my last post on this project, I ended up ordering the complete Mustang II front end kit, but rather getting the one with the stamped steel control arms, I got the one with the tubular arms.  It will be a bit sturdier.  My only concern is it is a strutless system so I don't know how camber will be adjusted?  I also order many other parts:  some for the Mustang portion and some for the Pinto portion.  I have received some already, with more coming.  I will be able to hit the ground running as soon as Spring gets here!
rob289c

Dtmix

It's me again, Dan. I can understand your concern with the registration process being a native New Yorker.! If I were you, before going further with the Trike project, I would read up on not only the motorcycle and car registration laws, but those regarding one-offs, special production, and replica car registrations requirements. After reviewing each and every one of them, select one that comes the closest to your project and tailor-design your project accordingly. It will assure your ability to register and road-worthiness. I also encourage everything not to be newer than any laws or regulations concerning EPA, crash tests, and related requirements. Hence the one offs and replica regulations being your friend. Your engine, frame, vin numbers, and the like seems to be in the 60s so you should be safe.  Fingers crossed!

Happy Motoring,
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

rob289c

This is the kit I am going to order for my Pinto/Mustang Roadster:

https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mustang-II-IFS-w-New-Stock-Control-Arms-Springs-Shocks-and-Spindles,35670.html

There is another kit but it has 2" drop spindles.  I think I am better off staying with the stock spindles.  If for no other reason, I think it would be better for alignment purposes, not to mention normal ground clearance.

Has anyone else bought and/or used this kit?  Was it a direct bolt on?  Was it necessary to purchase anything else?  I know it doesn't come with a sway bar so I will have to get my back that I gave away. The good news is I don't think the recipient had plans to use it so I think he'll give it back.  It appears to be a complete kit.  The one mod I will have to make is to have the rotors drilled for a 4x4.5 lug pattern.  I have no plans to change the Mustang rear end to a 5-lug so I want all 4 wheels to be the same 4-lug pattern.  I am going to use Ansen Sprint Slotted Mags on all 4 corners.

https://www.tirerack.com/wheels/WheelCloseUpServlet?target=wheelCloseUp&wheelMake=American+Racing+Authentic+Hot+Rod&wheelModel=VN69+Ansen+Sprint&wheelFinish=Polished&tab=wheels

I am thinking 15x7 in the rear with 225 60 15 tires...any advice in the front?  I am thinking a smaller, tire in the front.  I don't know if the rims come in 15x6 and not sure of the tire size...maybe a 205 60 15?  It would give it a little bit of a raked look. 

Any feedback on my change of plans or advice?  Any experience with the front suspension kit I am planning to buy?  Is there any real difference between Mustang II and Pinto?  The kit says it will fit an '80 Pinto.   I thought the trike project would be cool, but finding someone to engineer the front was going to be a challenge and registering it in the People's Republic of NY would be even harder. 
rob289c

Dtmix

Rob,

I knew that you were building a trike, but never seen your project until now. Your moving it to the project section helped me to discover it-😃 It is much more elaborate and bigger project than what I had pictured in mind! I am impressed! I cannot wait to see it the next time I am in the Rochester area!

Happy Motoring,
Dan
Happy Motoring!
Dan

rob289c

After being at the weld shop for a month I finally got it home a couple of weeks ago.  The Pinto and Mustang frames are married together and a caster is mounted to the crossmember so I can move it around the shop.  I re-installed the engine and tranny for floor space saving purposes.  It is in its Winter spot and I won't mess with it until at least April.  Today I made the decision that it is not going to be a trike.  Finding an appropriate motorcycle front end and then finding a shop that is willing and able to fab and mount it was going to be difficult and expensive.  I have decided to keep it a four-wheeler.  It will be an open-air, engine-exposed buggy.  Not a trike, but still a cool project.  I am going to buy a Mustang II front end kit that will provide upper and lower control arms, steering rack, tie rods, brakes, and other pieces/parts.  It will be a lot cheaper than going the MC front end route.  I will need to get my sway bar and strut rods back from the guy I gave my leftovers to.  I don't think he will have a problem with that (I hope).  I think this will be a better way to go and will ne a cool little roadster.  In retrospect, I would have done things differently if I thought about going this route than making it into a trike.  It wil come together more quickly this way.  I will post more when I get parts or get back to work on it in the Spring.
rob289c

rob289c

All loaded up on the dolly.  Will transport to the weld shop on Tuesday.  Hopefully it will be back by the weekend so I can once again re-install the engine in the chassis and tuck it away for the Winter.  Over the Winter I need to figure out the front end.  I will have to hire a custom MC builder as designing and installing it is beyond my capabilities. 
rob289c

rob289c

Today I pinned the fames together.  Tomorrow I will remove the engine from the chassis and get it ready to take to the weld shop.  I also cut off about 6" off the driveshaft tunnel.  It shortened it up a bit and allows better reach to the accelerator.    I would have gotten more done today but I spent several hours helping my son install a stupid siren system in his car.  It was against my better judgement but I was able to spend time with him and teach him some mechanical skills.  He usually fights me on everything so since he needed my "assistance" I worked on his project instead of mine. 
rob289c