Mini Classifieds

72 Runabout Sprint Edition

Date: 04/25/2018 02:51 pm
1978 PINTO PONY FOR SALE 17,000 ORIGINAL MILES !!!!!!!
Date: 10/10/2019 10:02 pm
Custom Pinto Project

Date: 06/12/2016 07:37 pm
1976 Ford Pinto Wagon - just rebuilt. 302 v8

Date: 11/11/2019 03:38 pm
Needed- Good 71-73 Rear End or parts- close to AL
Date: 09/15/2019 12:38 pm
79 pinto steering column
Date: 08/18/2018 02:00 pm
1977 Cruiser
Date: 06/29/2019 06:28 am
looking for 1978 pinto head rebuild kit
Date: 05/24/2020 08:19 am
'79 Ford Pinto, Green,

Date: 10/29/2019 11:50 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 642
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 497
  • Total: 497
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Any way to Reattach lug to Hatchback Heated Glass

Started by Henrius, November 17, 2019, 09:02:43 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Billnparts

Permatex makes a kit to reglue those tabs back on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

LongTimeFordMan

How far is the rub er crom the place you are soldering.

And what sort of soldering iron are you using

If its more than 1/4" inch you shouldnet have a problem with  heat transfer if like Wittsend mentioned just tin both surfaces well and you shouod be able to join the pices in a few seconds or less anyway
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Henrius

Quote from: Wittsend on November 18, 2019, 11:18:39 AM
If you have put the iron on the trace for 2-3 seconds to apply solder that will be a lot. Once the parts have solder on the (BTW, that is called "tinning") it will probably be 1/2 to 1 second to connect a jumper wire to the trace. At that point you are simply melting solder to solder. So, it is just an estimation that the glass will be fine but I don't see it as an issue. The fine lines is getting enough heat for a proper solder bond and minimizing heat so the traces don't start lifting.


Lastly I didn't mention it but use a flux paste. I find it helps a lot over just using the solder with the flux built in.

I have soldered with resin solder a lot. Wasn't worried about the glass, but the rubber weatherstrip holding the glass. Don't know if the glass would conduct enough heat to burn the rubber.
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!

LongTimeFordMan

Also sorry for drifting but fo anyone interested in finding cheep electronic parts like connectors and misc  all electronics has a mail order catalog at

allelectronics.com
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Wittsend

Yep, I used Luky's to purchase a lot of the suspension bolts on my Sunbeam Tiger. And what I didn't get there I got down the street at Allen Bolt.  To those that are following this post LTFM and I are making reference to the many places in the San Fernando Valley (California) that sell items that are helpful to modifying or keeping our cars on the road.

So, my apology for drifting off the subject. But I believe we have covered the original question and these establishments might be helpful for others to know of.

LongTimeFordMan

Getting a little off subject but Luky's hardware on Burbank blvd in burbank is another great place.

They have bolts by the pound and heavy duty hoses, fittings and stuff..

Every time i get a chance to go back to LA i stock up.
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Wittsend

If you have put the iron on the trace for 2-3 seconds to apply solder that will be a lot. Once the parts have solder on the (BTW, that is called "tinning") it will probably be 1/2 to 1 second to connect a jumper wire to the trace. At that point you are simply melting solder to solder. So, it is just an estimation that the glass will be fine but I don't see it as an issue. The fine lines is getting enough heat for a proper solder bond and minimizing heat so the traces don't start lifting.


Lastly I didn't mention it but use a flux paste. I find it helps a lot over just using the solder with the flux built in.

LongTimeFordMan

Henrius

Im not familiar with the specifics of the attachment

If you could provide some pix of the area i think we could provide you with some more specific info about how to do the repair
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Wittsend

Yes, both Apex and ALL are places I consider "Men's Shopping." My son frequents them more than I do today.  In some ways he is a throwback to the 1950's in terms of skills.  He CAD draws, machines (mostly CNC), welds, 3-D prints. Here is a cued up You Tube video of us at ALL Electronics (I had just been to Pick Your Part).  They wouldn't let him shooting Apex. https://youtu.be/CvMub2SKVNg?t=442


I learned to solder when I raced slot cars in the late 60's/early 70's before most all the tracks folded. And for 9 years I was the TV Studio technician at the college I eventually taught at. So, I was able to take a hobby skill and make it an employable skill.

Henrius

Thanks for this valuable into, Wittsend and LongTimeFordMan.  Do y'all think the heat generate would necessitate removing the glass from the hatch, or would merely removing the hatch to set it on a horizontal table be sufficient?
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!

LongTimeFordMan

Good advice Wittsend..

I forgot to provide the specifics you did..

Ive been soldering so long that i sort of took that for granted. And would be lost without my old radio shack 100 watt gun and a roll of Kester solder. Use it almost every week for something.

But most folks no longer master that skill

BUt a couple of years ago I taught my grandson to solder. He was about 14 at the time..

He was in a robotics class in HS and the teacher was impressed that he knew how.

BTW Wittsend are yiu camiliar with Apex electronics in Sun Valley and All Elecfronics in Van Nuys. Alsk.Luky's hardware in Burbank they have mostly screws bolts and misc small.stuff.all.surplus

Before i came to.texas i lived in sun valley by the airport and bought a lot of stuff from them
Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Wittsend

Good advice above.  When I need to deal with repairing electrical traces I first get the solder to stick to all the surfaces before I attempt to connect them. With the traces on the window you might have to CAREFULLY scrape the coating off to get to a solderable surface. You likely will have to solder in a short bare copper jumper wire to reconnect the lug and the trace.

I would follow this order:

1. Get solder attached to all the surfaces (lug, short jumper wire, trace).

2. Solder the short jumper wire to the lug.

3. Epoxy the lug back onto the glass. You might have to unbolt the hatch and flip it over to facilitate that letting gravity work for you. Don't break the glass!

4. Solder the jumper wire to the trace using the minimum of heat necessary.

5. Reinstall the wire on the lug carefully. I would support the lug with my finger to minimize stress when installing.


It seems odd that most cars have these window heaters and yet here in So. Cal. I don't think I have EVER used them.

LongTimeFordMan

Do a google or yahoo search for adhesives with silver fillers

There are several types made for repairing printed ircuits and equipment that cannot be soldered.

In any case if you can solder the lug back on use standard low temp 60/40  tin lead rosin core elecfrical.solder.

https://www.amazon.com/RadioShack-Rosin-Core-Solder-0-050-Diameter/dp/B007Z7QFDM

Also be careful not to dislodge or break the contact pad or heating element.

If you have not soldered before get a kit like this

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200642637_200642637?&cm_mmc=Google-LIA&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIg5mv0ZLz5QIVmB-tBh3lswNIEAQYDyABEgINjvD_BwE&utm_campaign=Ironton&utm_content=43984&utm_medium=Electrical%20%3E%20Electrical%20Tools%20%3E%20Kits&utm_source=Google_LIA

And practice getting a good smooth shiny pool of solder on some copper foil or strips or tin cans  before you tackle the window.

Again.. be very careful to not damage the existing pad or element they are fragile and can be dislodged from the window easily.

Do not try to use "silver solder" because it requires very high temps in the range of 1200 to 1600 farenheit and a torch.which might even melt the window.

Silver solder is used by experienced folks to join parts that require mechanical strength

Red 1973 pinto wagon DD, SoCal desert car, Factory 4 speed, 3.40 gears, Stock engine, 14" rims and tires, 60 K original miles

Henrius

I pulled a heated hatch glass years ago from a junkyard car. Glass like that is so rare!


Had it installed when my Pinto was painted. When I attached the power cable- the lug broke loose from the glass! Now the heated glass I spent so much time looking for is non-functional.


Can these lugs be silver-soldered back on? Will I have to remove the glass? Glass isn't a real good conductor of heat.  Or is there a glue that would work that would transmit electricity?
1973 Pinto Runabout with upgraded 2.0 liter & 4 speed, and factory sunroof. My first car, now restored, and better than it was when it rolled off the assembly line!