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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

rear ended no boom

Started by JoeBob, April 20, 2019, 11:38:37 AM

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JoeBob

Denver is a very safe from natural disasters. We have very few weather events. No hurricanes, almost no tornados, we did have a flood in 65. We don't have much snow anymore, about 65 inches per year. That is more than most, but half what it used to be. It seldom stays for longer than a few days.
     What we do have is hail. Most shingles last less than 10 years. My dad replaced his roof 3 times in 5 years. Needless to say, this is hell on cars. A few years ago my friend lost all her glass and both bumpers were ripped off in 10 minutes. You can almost always find a car dealership selling hail damaged cars cheep.
      Your coverage is cheaper than mine for good reason.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

PintoMan1

oh, forgot to mention. that is full coverage, everything they have to offer is included.
1973 pinto runabout

PintoMan1

I to have Hagerty and mine is also $20,000 and $242.00 a year! my mileage is unlimited. but that doesn't matter, I'm lucky if I put 25 miles on it though out a summer. with time and weather not on my side!! last year I only put 4 miles on it. hoping to do more this season (July already) but its not looking good.  :(
1973 pinto runabout

JoeBob

     Time for a progress report. There is no progress!!! I did as Pinto_one recommended, " Find an old timer who understands vehicles of this era. The car was scheduled for the second week of May. It was postponed for a week and then another and another.
  Every year in June I go to a FOMOCO show in Golden CO. It is held just 2 miles from Coors. The show was June 23. I told the body shop I would like to set a firm date of the 24th. That would allow me to attend the show and give the shop 10 days to get their ducks in a row, then drop off the car.
    It is a good thing I went. They included my car on the poster and tee shirt for the show. I would not have wanted to miss that. My car won a prize despite it's damaged condition. I have attended 6 years and won a prize four of those years.
    A few days ago, I dropped in on the body shop to find the car sat untouched for almost 3 weeks. The guy now says he will start next week. Who knows?
    My Hagerty policy is up for renewal in July. I decided to update it. My coverage was $10.000 for $190 per year. I doubled the coverage, $20.000 for $292.00. I am no longer able to work on the car myself, If I have to replace it, I will have to hire it all done.
    Next we discussed the annual millage. I originally had it set for $3000 per year. Somehow it got change to 501 miles per year. If you have Hagerty you might want to check to make sure your millage limitations are accurate.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

one2.34me

I agree with pinto_one, your Bobcat should be out on the road for a long time to come.

pinto_one

A good frame man on a frame machine can pull most of that out , worked at a ford dealer in the late 70s and watch it done a few times , you just got to find a old guy thats been doing it for years to have a perfect job , ask around until you find one , that car looks good , saveing it would be a plus
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

JoeBob

I am expecting a higher price. One thing neither I or the insurance guy noticed was a kink in the real wheel wells. It is hard to see. The shop man saw it 30 feet away. At the top of the rear wheel well is a slight pucker. It is easy to miss. If the money was mine I could live with it. With Hagerty on the hook I want it perfect.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

one2.34me

Wow, $4,200.00. I wonder what he saw that would require that kind of money to repair. The car runs and drives good. If there is no structural damage under the car, it looks like your mechanic could work with the door hinges to get some clearance on the trailing edges of your doors. Then have a paint shop feather in those chips and scrapes and paint and blend those areas. I hope your mechanic comes back with some real good news.

JoeBob


Hagerty sent someone out I don't think he had a clue. He climbed under my car without a light. I don't know how he could assess anything. His estimate was $4200.00
I took it to the shop on Thursday, I don't have their estimate yet.
I will post a follow-up.
Bill
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

1972 Wagon

Just wondering how your Hagerty insurance claim is working out. Keep us posted.
*The Original Family Car: A 1972 Pinto Wagon*
Ordered by my folks from Bunnell Motor Company, Inc., Bunnell, Florida
Delivered: June 20, 1972
Entrusted to my care: August 1976

JoeBob


I drove the car home and did not think I had any damage. Only later did I notice the doors. I believe the car is fine. I shimmed the doors years ago because of worn hinge pin. I got 10 years usage out of it that way but it made the trailing door gap quite tight.. I am posting a picture of the driver side before the accident. You will see the trailing edge gap is real tight, but still cleared. If it only moved 1/16" it would prove to be a problem. The passenger door relaxed back into original position that I had it in. It works now. The gap is still tight but that is how I had it shimmed.

    I called Hagerity today. They had a 6 year out of date phone number for me. Things should start rolling now.
    The photos did not paste in order but you'll figure it out.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

Wittsend

My Turbo donor car was an '88 T-Bird Turbo Coupe. It was an insurance salvage car that had been hit in the rear. The hit was hard enough to indent the center of the bumper about 8" breaking the fiberglass under structure. However, the trunk and the quarter panels stayed straight... right up to the center of the wheel openings. It was there that they crimped and bulged (the back section of the car having a drooped appearance) but the doors opened fine.

I used a propane torch (on the "frame rail") and a 4 ton bottle jack and got things looking rather decent. The drivers side just went back to normal. The passenger side required a bit of Bondo. I used a bolted 2X4 to put the left/right half's of the fiberglass bumper sub-structure back to one piece. I poured boiling water on the inside of the rubber bumper and placed a spare tire on the indent removing 95% of it.  I then drove the car for 10 years until it became a donor for my Pinto upgrade.

So, that is hopefully some encouragement for the Bobcat.

one2.34me

I hope you are continuing to mend joebob. Do you still have the car so you can look it over real good and take it for a test drive to see how it feels? If it still runs. Perhaps being struck from the rear with such force, the body moved forward and the doors didn't, bending the hinges or hinge mount areas. That would leave no gap at the rear edge of the doors and a bigger gap on the forward edge. My ex was rear ended so hard in our '86 T-bird that it sheared the cars motor mounts. The only visual damage was a slightly misaligned bumper. She drove the car for years after that. I really hope you can save your Bobcat. I would hate to see it lost. It's a Mercury, they don't even make them any more!

JoeBob

I reported this to Hagerty Friday. No response yet.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

1972 Wagon

Any news from Hagerty? I assume Hagerty's is negotiating with the other person's insurance company. In the last 20 years, I think the only "passenger" in our Pinto's rear seat was our yellow Lab. We'd spread a blanket and Noah loved to ride back there.
*The Original Family Car: A 1972 Pinto Wagon*
Ordered by my folks from Bunnell Motor Company, Inc., Bunnell, Florida
Delivered: June 20, 1972
Entrusted to my care: August 1976

JoeBob

I should have mentioned I was not concerned about the release. In the 17 year I have owned the car, no one has ever sat in the back. I don't know the last time I saw the back seat, I keep it folded down. I assume the bolt holes will line up, but I wanted to know for sure. I am disabled so I need to ask someone to do it for me. I don't want to have them start the work and then find out it is not possible.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

Wittsend

I'm not familiar with the seats in a '77 but since I have flip-flopped seats myself look for the forward tilt lock (if a non-adjustable type) or the fore/aft tilt lever (if adjustable) location. Unless they are centered in the seat back (on the non-adjustable type) they move so far inward that it can be difficult if not impossible to tilt the seat forward for rear entry. This may apply to the adjustable tilt type too. Usually they are on the outer edge of the seat. Flip-flopping them creates that problem.

JoeBob


     I am back from the doctor with a good prognosis. I do have back problems but it just seems the accident just undid what the chiropractor finish doing 20 minutes before the accident.
     I have not heard back from Hagerty, but it has bee only one business day.
     I am hoping on receiving good news. I am planning on my next project for the car. The driver's seat is starting to have vinyl flake off. I am guessing that the front seats are interchangeable. If I take them off of their base, I am thinking they will interchange. The damage is hard to see, With the lighter usage of the passenger side, I thinking this will make it last for my lifetime. Someone please chime in and let me know if I am right.
Thanks
Bill
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

1972 Wagon

Hope that you are on the mend and not as sore. Your "bump" sounds identical to what happened in 1992 to my 1972 Pinto wagon. I was stopped for a school crossing guard and was hit by a full size pick-up with a big bumper. As the Pinto's bumper was pushed, its bumper guards went into the tailgate crushing it. Above the rear windows, there was a definite "bend" in the body. The restoration shop that repaired my car had the body straightened, found a 1973 tailgate (Had the lift handle which the 72 model lacked so I didn't mind the different year), and replaced the bumper. After the repairs, my dad measured the door gaps and they were identical to what existed before the accident. I have no idea why Dad even knew what the gaps were! 27 years later, my Pinto is still on the road. Hopefully Hagerty's will cover your repairs. Good luck!
*The Original Family Car: A 1972 Pinto Wagon*
Ordered by my folks from Bunnell Motor Company, Inc., Bunnell, Florida
Delivered: June 20, 1972
Entrusted to my care: August 1976

JoeBob


    I was joking about the no boom. I was not expecting one.
    I am holding out one last bit of hope. It might look worse than it is. My hinge pins were getting worn. The doors sagged, so I cheated. I lifted the doors into the correct position and put a washer on the bolt. This washer is now between the hinge and the mounting. This solved the problem. The doors worked just fine. It did narrow the gap at the trailing edge of the door. This gap was tighter than it should be, but did clear. I did this ten years ago. I don't know what this gap would look like without damage today. The gap might have closed as little as a 1/16th of an inch perhaps 1/8 to cause the problem.
    I will await the expert opinion. If this car is saved it will be a blessing. If it is lost, I will have an adventure searching out a replacement. I was looking for a pinto when I found this bobcat. Perhaps a pinto is still in my future.
Bill
   
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

russosborne

Bill,
very sorry about your car and your back. Make sure you get to the doctor asap, document everything, and let Hagerty know. And probably just file a claim with Hagerty and let them fight it out with the other insurance company. The other driver's insurance SHOULD be on the hook for any medical costs related to this. Again, talk to Hagerty about it.

These cars do NOT have a frame. They are what is called unibody, where the body sheet metal is the major structural part. They do have what is called subframes, think of them as mini frames, in front and in back. Like where your bumpers mount.  But in between, just sheet metal unless the car has been modded, like mine. These are the same as the Mustangs/Mavericks in that matter.

Your car did what it was designed to do in order to minimize your injuries. In emotional terms, it gave it's life for you.

Odds are your car is beyond economical repair. While it could probably be pulled out on a frame machine, no insurance will pay for that. And even then, I wouldn't drive it without adding sub frames from front to back, and maybe a cage. It most likely would never be quite the same.

As far as the boom, odds are your car had the safety bit added years ago to help prevent the boom. Early Mustangs (65-73) had the top of the tank as the trunk floor. Seriously. And the gas filler neck was open in the trunk from the tail light panel to the tank. Ford has a history of making some stupid design moves with gas tanks.

Again, really sorry to hear this, and I hope your injuries are as minor as you think. But please, keep an eye on things, stuff shows up days later sometimes.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

JoeBob


When I got the car 17 years ago. I had Hagerty insure it for $2000. Each time I made an obvious improvement I photographed it. I would email in photos and request a higher valuation. I would suggest the value I wanted, most of the time they would agree.
    It has been 3 years now that I had the $10,000 value. I was getting ready to bump it up to $12,000. I wanted to install a new graphic first. I stripped off the old one. I received my new graphic last week.  It is not installed yet. Last month I did $1,200 in overdue maintenance. Too bad I did not put that off a little longer.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

dga57

Bill,

Sorry this happened to you and I hope your injuries are nothing more ominous than a bad jar that your  chiropractor can take care of Monday.

As The Whistler pointed out, your car will probably be considered a total loss.  I don't know the laws in your state, but you may be able to collect through Hagerty, whereupon they will sue the other driver's insurance company to recoup.  Another possible route is to notify Hagerty and let them negotiate with the other insurance company on your behalf.  The fact that they were willing to insure it for $10,000 says a lot and should bode well for you in any negotiations.  My advice is, if you haven't already done so, contact Hagerty and at least let them know what has happened. 

Back in 2006, my mother was involved in a head-on crash with a Nissan Sentra.  She was driving a 3 series BMW.  Both cars were relatively new.  The exact same thing happened with the license plates; the Nissan's plate attached itself to her car's in the collision.  I'd never seen or heard of that happening before or since until you described it in your post.  Perhaps it's not as uncommon as I thought. 

Pintos and Bobcats got an undeserved bad rap on the explosion thing.  I bought a brand new '74 Pinto when I was sixteen years old.  When it was about a year old, my girlfriend and I were returning home from a school function on a rainy afternoon when I skidded off the wet pavement on a sharp turn.  We went through a barbed wire fence, grazing a fence post, bounced off a tree, and then hit a cattle loading chute sideways and did a complete rollover before coming to a halt, landing right-side-up.  Other than some muscle aches and minor bruising, neither of us were hurt and the car was still driveable and repairable.  You can't tell me those little cars aren't tough as nails! 

Best wishes on your recovery and keep us posted on what happens with the car.  We care about both.

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

JoeBob

As I have stated other places, I know nothing about mechanics. I assumed the body compressed forward slipping a little on the frame. The bumper being bolted directly to the frame, you are probably right.
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9

The Whistler

Sorry for your injuries.  Next sorry for the loss of your car. From what you describe your car is totaled. You may not agree but how do you think get door gaps closed in with out frame movement! The car is the frame! The chassis did its job!
Turbo is a way of life

JoeBob


    It felt like I was hit hard, but the bumper shows no damage. I don't understand these rear fat bumpers. There are no shock absorbers, they just stick out. Mine has been drawn in, but has no damage, just scuff marks. I have it painted with black plastic coat, just a 2 minute touch-up
    True to the reports, my passenger door won't open. The driver door fits poorly and clips the door frame chipping paint. The compression of the passenger side door frame also caused chipping on the trailing edge of the door and body. The leading edge of my doors have 3/16" gap, the trailing edge of each door, zero. At the scene, I did not realize I had any damage.
    I was stopped at a light and was hit square on.  When I looked at my car it seemed normal, but my tag was missing.
    We looked for my plate for a while. We thought it bounced into a ditch or something. Then I noticed that the plate frame on my car looked odd. It wasn't mine.
I was hit so center, that her license plate frame locked on to my plate like a Tupperware lid. When the cars separated her plate frame stayed on my car. The plates were face to face. The back side of her plate frame faced outward. This made it look as if my plate was missing.
    The square on hit, gives me hope that I don't have a twisted frame. I have no idea how serious the compaction of the body is going to be.
Other than the door alignment, the car looks and drives just fine.
     I have upper back pain. I was on my way back from the chiropractor and my back was loosened up. I don't know if this made the results of the impact better or worse. I went right back to the doctor, but the can't see me until Monday.
     Because I was in pain I did not exit the car until the ambulance arrived. My first question to the med tec was, "What does the back of my car look like?" He said men ask about their car first and health second.
      I have Hagerty Insurance. We have an agreed upon value of $10,000. The other driver's insurance will have to pay. I have no idea what will happen when they value my car at just a few thousand. My car is restored to look almost factory new. It cost me a lot to do it, but we all know a great looking 42 year-old bobcat with no upgrades, has little value.
      I will keep you all posted on how the car is. After that I may mention how I am doing.
Bill
77 yellow Bobcat hatchback
Deuteronomy 7:9