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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New to me 79 Pinto glass hatch ESS

Started by russosborne, April 01, 2018, 01:43:15 AM

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russosborne

Sigh.
It's just after 7:30AM and I am awake. Fell asleep sitting on the couch about 8 last night. Not planned, but want to take advantage of the full day.
So, what's the problem, Russ?
It's WET outside! Rained overnight, and chance of more today I think.
No garage, no carport, no shelter at all over the Pinto. Or any of the other cars for that matter.
Hoping once the sun  shows up it isn't still raining.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

On a better note, we went out for a bit and when we got home my 5lug 11inch front disk brake kit was sitting by the door.
So now I need to get the old front suspension/brakes off, clean up and paint the subframe, and get the new stuff on. I don't want the car immobile for any longer than absolutely necessary.
Need to make sure my cordless impact wrench batteries (yes, I bought an extra) are charged and ready to go.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks. But the person who wrote those is a bit of an idiot.

Speaking of idiotic, what was I thinking when I bought the 15x10 rims? I took the 4 lug tires/rims off, there is no way that those huge things will fit. Good thing my final cost for those was $20.

Not doing so good, first the seats now the rims. Grrrr.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Wittsend


Quote from: russosborne on January 04, 2019, 04:09:22 AM
...  Just got home from work for the last time until Jan 14. Really hoping I can get my butt out of bed and get some stuff done. Don't have a good record recently of that happening.  ...


If you believe in self motivation here are a few (self) quotes to get you going:


Oct. 23rd
 
I've committed to my wife to get the  79 on the road by the end of March, unless something major (health, big expense with Subaru, etc) happens.
 
 
Nov.2nd
 
We don't have the room for all the stuff my wife will buy if I don't meet the end of March deadline. 

"Happy wife..., Happy life." T-Minus 86 days and c-o-u-n-t-i-n-g . . . .

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on January 04, 2019, 04:09:22 AM


Oh, I did order the cd rom version of the 79 manual. Really won't be much stock on the car, but maybe it will help a bit here and there.



Let's hope it helps, anyway!  Enjoy your time off and here's hoping you'll make lots of progress with the car!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

 >:(
At myself.
This is what happens when you just assume.
Turns out I won't be able to use racing harnesses with the Miata seats. They are not useable with hi back seats, so even the stock Pinto seats wouldn't work. Unless I were to cut slots in them, which isn't going to happen.
Not sure yet what I will do, other than pretend it didn't happen and ignore it for now. Don't need seats right now. Probably have to buy other seats since I really think it is best to have the harness with the roll cage from what I have heard.

Just got home from work for the last time until Jan 14. Really hoping I can get my butt out of bed and get some stuff done. Don't have a good record recently of that happening. 
:-X

Oh, I did order the cd rom version of the 79 manual. Really won't be much stock on the car, but maybe it will help a bit here and there.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I think I need to get a 79 service manual. I really thought that will almost nothing being stock I didn't need one, but I am going to need to see what all emissions equipment I am going to need.
Got 2 cats now, but thinking I might have to do the charcoal cannister thing, among other stuff that I may not be thinking of. Car has to go through emissions testing here, and not sure if they will open the hood to look since it is so old.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on December 31, 2018, 12:23:19 AM


I have to get up a little early for me so I can gather up some old car batteries and an aluminum rim (that came with the 74) and take them to a place that buys that stuff, will almost pay for the exhaust part.


Now that sounds like a deal!  Happy New Year, Russ!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

And keeping on with the exhaust, I am supposed to be buying the below for $40 tomorrow (Monday) afternoon.
Just for the parts if nothing else it will be a good deal for me.
Seller has had it on Offer Up for a month, so not a good deal for others I guess.  8)
Couldn't get cats cheaper if I tried. And cutouts and an H pipe even!
;D

I have to get up a little early for me so I can gather up some old car batteries and an aluminum rim (that came with the 74) and take them to a place that buys that stuff, will almost pay for the exhaust part.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Have I mentioned that I am going to smooth out the firewall? Going to go with a heater/ac setup like this
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Slim-Line-Heater-Air-Conditioning-Unit,50710.html
Not totally set on this one, but for the price why not. I am not going to try to use the stock stuff. 
Why am I mentioning this? Because it should help with the 351W install. I hope.
Plus, I can learn to weld filling in these little non-structural holes.

I bought some exhaust manifolds today, although they look more like shorty headers. Paid $25 for them, so it is worth the shot. I am thinking about running the exhaust pipe like fender well headers, since I don't have fender wells. :-) If not, time to start saving for the Hooker 351W swap headers. I am really hoping I can make these work.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Finally just ordered the Speedway disk brake kit. And it's in stock.
Got the rear axle bearings, now I just need to get the backing plates and stuff and head to a machine shop. Might have to wait for my next payday for that.

I've got 4 days off, now through the first. I need to get some stuff going. Like getting the rims for Bill ready. And getting some of the left over stuff on CL or OfferUp. Or both.

Got some cleaning/sorting done in the work room, I can almost see my work bench. But I CAN get to it now. Couldn't before. Adding some length to it for Karen, she has started making vinyl signs on wood. And she is sanding and painting or staining the wood. So she needs a better place to do that than on top of the washing machine.

I'm starting to forget what all I have bought for this thing. I need to make a list.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Note to self.
Remove the gas tank before cutting the floor above it.
somehow I keep forgetting that little step when I am planning.

Did get it turned around, and even sold the Mustang floor pans.

Looks like I won't be working Christmas Eve or Christmas. I could use the money, but I can use the time off more right now. Hoping to get a bit done on the Pinto, but have some stuff to do around the house also. I've got to get the rims/tires off the car for sure. Got to get the rims shipped next weekend.

Just got home from buying a pair of front rims/tires for $50. Not sure what the rims are, aluminum aftermarket. I need to look at them for markings. Kind of ugly, but for the price they were worth it. The tires may be too big, but for now they will work for rollers if nothing else. And,no, I didn't get the center covers. Keep repeating to myself, "$50". He was asking $100 originally, but came down recently. $100, no thanks. $50, sure.

Should be ordering the Speedway 11 inch disk brake kit next weekend. Need to take the new axles and the parts to a machine shop to be put together.

Found a T5 semi locally, but it is either buy it and nothing else right now, or get the brakes and axles so I can get this rolling asap. So rolling it is. The trans is near a town called Show Low, and the drive is a bit more than I trust the Subaru to do right now. Oh, that reminds me. I bought another cheap floor jack and some 1/2 inch drive metric deep sockets, so I can do the rear struts on that car. Yet something else that needs done more than the Pinto. :-(

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, since I am getting ready to get rid of the rims on the car currently, I got to thinking about things, and I think I have finally made up my mind one one area that has been up in the air.

I have 2 MustangII/Pinto 8 inch rear ends. The one currently on the 79, and the one I bought for the 74 and is all apart. Been going back and forth on which to use.

Decided that even though it will be a bit more work for me, I am going to get the one that is sitting in my workroom put together. The one on the 79 looks rather greasy and has been sitting for what, 20 years or more. So I would be better off taking that one apart anyway, although right now I probably wouldn't. So I will keep that one on the car for now, get the other one cleaned up, modified for the Crown Vic disc brakes (minor cutting on the ends) maybe powder coated or at least painted, and have it ready to go. Also need to get the new 5lug axles ready, need spacers for the brakes and new bearings pressed on. Then take the  other  one off the car, take out the 3rd member, and swap that. And hopefully not have any leaks. Allthough I am worried about the pinion thingie leaking on it, might have to have that checked out by a pro.

This would be the ideal time to put Traction Lock in it. But that probably won't happen for now. Have gotten to the point where I need to concentrate on needs, not wants.

Got to get the car turned around later  today so it is in the correct position for my working on it while the tires are still attached. At least it rolls pretty easily. Be good if I get that much done, I also need to get the transmission off of the 351W so I can put it up for sale. Although I am having no luck selling the 65-70 Mustang floor pans. Wonder why. Arizona, not many rusty cars. Hmmm, think there is any connection?  :P

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, oops.
I bought one more thing today. Found a pair of 275/60/15 tires on Craigslist for $70. They were near the seat location. Guy had several people interested, I managed to be there first. Yay, me.
Now how to tell Karen.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Those seats will look great in a Pinto!  Congrats on finding the movie disc player you wanted!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Apparently I have decided on what seats to use.  :o
I am buying these tomorrow before work. $150. ;D

I kept seeing the cheap racing style seats, and thought I was going to get them used, but then I saw these. They aren't exactly what I wanted in looks, but they are very close. And most importantly, they are OEM seats. I was a bit worried about the cheap part of the other seats, especially in a crash. Knowing that these Miata seats are stock, I am not worried about them falling apart if something happens. All the seats I have been interested in have been around the same price. Not about to spend hundreds on seats at this point just to have some "name".

Found out that some of these have speakers in the headrest. These are from a base 95, not sure if these have them or not. Would be cool if they do, but not why I am getting them so it really doesn't matter.

Not going to worry about it right away, but I've found some very good recover upholstery fairly cheap for these. Apparently Miatas are pretty popular. At least the seats, there are tons of covers for them.

This is probably my only purchase for the Pinto this check. I am spending $60 on something I've been hoping to find for quite a while. It is from the 80's, was called an RCA Selectivision player. Plays movie discs, but unlike the laser disc this used a capacitive discharge setup that has a needle like the old vinyl record players. I used to have one and many movies/shows. Always wanted another one, even though CD and now BluRay is so much better. These were just so cool back then. This one comes with like 80 movies. Might be a challenge finding a new needle cartridge, but any I bought would have the same issue. Tired of looking at thrift stores for one.

Both of these are thanks to Offer Up. Still using Craigslist as well.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks.
I wish I could quit window shopping on Craigslist. And now I am doing it on OfferUp.
Wouldn't be bad except I keep finding things I need but have to wait and hope they haven't sold before my next payday.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

They look to be in good shape!  Nice score!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Oh, I knew I was forgetting something.
I bought these the day the site went kaboom.
Net cost $20, I sold the wheels/tires that came on the Pinto for $50 earlier that day, and then found these on CL for $70. Went that night and got them.
Oh, they are not real Centerlines, but close enough for me.
Now the question is will they fit? Not out much if not, but hoping they will.
15x10   :o ;D
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, looks like I won't be using the Pinto seats from the 74.
Asked about cost to recover them and this is what I got.
"Just guessing recover 300-400 each , foam is the question , not sure if you need back and bottom and what they are shaped like, you could end up with 600 in each seat as a ball park estimate"
I think I can get some decent seats for half of that at least.

Have to think a bit, having the site down for so long has made me confused on where I was at.

Thanks,
Russ

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I have the last big order (at least for a month or two) coming from Speedway on Friday.
Maybe I should gather up everything I've bought and take some pictures. Or should I just take pictures of the invoices? ::)
Not too sure I want to see all those in one place.  :o
I'm already finding stuff that I have bought in the last month that I have forgotten about.  :-[

We bought a very cheap plasma cutter from Home Depot. We as in my wife has talked about wanting one for years. Might try it out on the Pinto. I am going to have to cut out the spare tire well. Might just use the metal saw I bought. This time around I am going to just make it a nice square cut, be easier to patch. This is so I can fit the fuel cell underneath the hatch floor. I also need to get rid of the stock tank. I am hoping I can make the Speedmaster fuel cell I bought a few years ago work. I really need to have the filler connected to the stock fill tube/cap. But so far it seems no one makes a fill tube/valve that fits their size/bolt pattern. Once I can get to it, I need to measure it and see if it is close to anything already out there. One of the things coming Friday is Speedway's fuel cell mounting bracket kit. It's close to what I had in mind to try to make myself. Figured what the heck, might as well just buy it. Doing that a lot this time around, maybe it will actually help me to finish a car for once. :-[ :-X
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speedway-Bolt-In-Fuel-Cell-Brackets,56241.html

I also bought a 31 inch double pass aluminum radiator. Normally way too big for a Pinto, but I'm thinking with no radiator support or anything it shouldn't be a problem. With a 351 in Phoenix big is better. Still need to come up with a way to mount it. Might have found something, but it needs a cross bar to mount to, and I don't have one up front, yet. Thinking about making a bolt in one just for this, as I don't want anything blocking the engine from going in or coming out easily.

Also a master cylinder, and two proportioning valves. One nice and fancy with a brake light switch, and one simple one in case the other doesn't have enough adjustment. This second one goes all the way to zero if needed.

And a Weiand 351w stealth intake manifold. This I just got impatient with, should have been looking at swap meets. But new is good too.

Aluminum 1/2 inch fuel line, and a very nice 37 degree flaring tool. The tool was almost the same price as the radiator, but it is supposed to be the best available. Ridgid.

Speaking of Speedway, their 11 inch brake kit is still on back order. Can't afford it right now anyway. I wish they had charged me for it when I placed the order. My luck, the one time I order something that ends up on back order they don't charge me right away.

And of course, I find a 351C 4bbl engine and trans on sale for $300 on CL the other night. Needs rebuilt, so it wouldn't have worked for me right now, but for that kind of money if I hadn't already have bought an engine I would have been ringing this seller's phone off the hook. (oops, does that show my age?) I posted the link on the Torino site and people are drooling over it, but they are all too far away to make it practical. I'm right where it is, but am cash poor right now. Oh, well. Wasn't meant to be for me.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks to pintob (Brent) I have the missing hatch upper brackets.
Great to meet you.

Hoping to get going on the car tomorrow, today was a get the shopping stuff done sort of day.

These 2 day weekends are just too short. I'm taking the 15th and 16th off this month, last of my vacation time for this year. Next year will have 4 weeks, so will be using some early for the Pinto.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

It's a disease. That is what it is. :-[
But then one local radio station has already started non stop (except for commercials) Christmas music. So this is my Christmas present to me.  :o

I just ordered this.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/qti-rm-6053/overview/make/ford

I guess I am committed to a manual now. Or maybe just committable.  ::) With this bellhousing at least there is a choice of transmissions.
And this one is the Mustang II size. I wanted SFI cert, but they don't have them in this size. Figured I am not racing anyway, so it shouldn't matter much. Decided that for this kind of money I might as well get the one that fits better. Going to need all the help I can get there.

I almost went with a much cheaper aluminum one, but that one wasn't available in the MII size either, and I would have been locked into one transmission. And it didn't come with the block plate or hardware.

This engine had better be able to use a manual trans. Not sure on Fords, but back in my Pontiac days there were cranks that weren't machined for a pilot bearing. But manuals were available with this engine in 89, so I should be ok.

No word from either seller on CL, not a surprise.  ::)

If you stop hearing from me, my wife has found out how much I have spent.  :-X

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, she does the bills, and right now I don't have a debit card since someone (scum) stole the information and took $420. Had to get a new account and I am waiting on the new card.
Bank credited back the money finally at least.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on November 02, 2018, 06:53:26 AM


Maybe I can get the trans I want sooner rather than later.


That would be great!  The key to not getting killed by the wife is NEVER tell her what you're up to! ;)

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Oh, geez.

Someone on the vintage Mustang forum was telling someone about Modern Driveline. They have a T5 that would work.
Got me thinking, since this is a stock engine more or less, for now at least, maybe I could get by with a V8 T5 trans for now. Just no 4 grand starts.
One local is listed for $300, and another one doesn't have a price. I just emailed both of them, although there is no way I could buy it right now. My wife would kill me for sure. But they have been listed for quite a while, so maybe another couple of weeks.

Looks like I will be working Saturday.

Maybe I can get the trans I want sooner rather than later.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Got my 5 lug axles today from Dutchman Axles. Shiny.  ;D
Now, the only problem is I can't find the spacer kit for the Crown Vic disk brakes I bought about 3 years ago. I need it installed the same time as bearings, otherwise I could have had Dutchman do the bearings as well as the lugs. I might have to buy another kit. Only about $50, but still a pain. I know it is here SOMEWHERE. I have the brakes, bought them and the kit for the Ranchero, but you know how that is going. I will have to get another setup for it when the time comes. Not a real problem.

Starting to think there is a problem with the Speedway front brake kit. Keeps getting pushed back. Oh, well. I haven't paid for it yet so I can wait.  :'(

Also ordered a Summit HEI distributor. Right now cost was a factor, plus I do not want anything that has to have a separate control box. Not even a Duraspark setup.
Will have to see how it does once it is together. I know lots of people hate HEI on a Ford, but I don't. Whatever works best and I can afford.

The guy on CL just sold his $75 intake, but there is the swap meet this Sunday. Generally can get that sort of stuff cheap there. If I am allowed to spend any more money. I've spent just a little on this so far.  :-[ :-X

I am feeling pretty good about the carb decision. Feels like a huge weight lifted off of me. EFI just has so many sensors and wires and injectors and stuff. I am not up to dealing with all that at this point. I can always go with an aftermarket EFI down the road if I really want it. Maybe I can sell it all to someone who wants to do EFI. Although this is the truck stuff, a bit different from the car version. Not sure what all. That was part of the problem. I just don't know much about EFI. Not that interested in learning either.  :-[

Good thing about doing the engine is I can install it straight in, no up and over and angles and dangles.  8)
One advantage to no radiator support.

Sounds like I will be redoing the trans tunnel from what I am hearing. I kind of wish I didn't have to, but I have to deal with what I have. And I imagine an overdrive transmission won't be much smaller, so it shouldn't really hurt anything in the long run. Still hoping to be able to get a good 5 speed eventually, but I am not going to wait for that to happen to get this on the road. We don't have the room for all the stuff my wife will buy if I don't meet the end of March deadline.  ::)

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Been doing nothing but googling this efi to carb swap the last few hours. :o

Finally found out the for a 351 that I can swap in a non efi distributor without any problems. Thought there was a oil pump shaft issue, but turns out that it only makes a difference with the 302, unless you are trying to use an efi distributor in an originally carbed 351 engine. Which I am not. ;D

So for me I am going to just go with the carb. It'll make my life a lot simpler as far as getting this car on the road. I have a carb I was going to use on the Ranchero already as well. So I need a distributor and an intake. Not a huge expense. And I've seen an intake on CL for $75. Since I was planning on (and have) a fuel pump for the carb setup that I really want to use, and would have to do new fuel lines regardless, that isn't an issue.

If this was going into a car that had efi already, I would make the effort just for emissions sake. But no Pinto I ever heard of came with EFI.  :D

More stuff to toss on CL and never sell. goody.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

AAARRRGGGHHH!!!

My brain is about to explode. Looking at the EFI stuff online and realized I will have to get an air intake, as well as an EFI capable fuel setup.
Thinking "just go with the carb", then realize I need a different distributor (I think).

This is not going to be an easy decision.

ETA, just found out that I have a "truck" 5.8. Apparently the EFI stuff is different. Carb is sounding better all the time.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.