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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New to me 79 Pinto glass hatch ESS

Started by russosborne, April 01, 2018, 01:43:15 AM

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russosborne

Thanks.
I bought the tool, it's easier for me to buy one than to try to fab something up.

This weekend was a bust as far as the Pinto goes. My wife wanted to go to Ikea to get a couple of work tables for her craft room. Well, we ended up getting a new bed as well. So guess what I spent all of Saturday night to 3am and about two more hours Sunday doing?
I am in so much pain it isn't funny.

I did get something for the Pinto. Found a used pair of Weiand sbf valve covers on Craigslist and picked them up Saturday on the way to Ikea. Since I have the Weiand intake, I figured why not, at least for now. They've been soda blasted. Not sure what I want to do with them. I like polished, but keeping it polished is a real pain. Maybe powder coat them. Or just paint them. I'll post a picture once I get one taken.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Wittsend


I gave my son a free HF MIG and he gave it to someone else. Pretty much says something right there. I have had a Lincoln Mig Pak 10 the past 19 years and it has been reliable. At the time Eastwood wanted $425 but my wife saw it at Costco (floor model) for $250. The only thing missing was a $12 nozzle. If you have the really small bottle (About 18") I recommend you upgrade the size. The cost to upgrade the bottle will be saved after a few fillings.


If money is an issue you don't really need the yoke tool.  I made a plate to torque the crank bolt (a similar 100-150 Ft. lb's) when I changed the timing belt on my Mazda. In this case it locked to an existing bolt on the front of the engine.   When I did the timing belt in my mother in laws Mazda the plate fit the flange but it did not line up with a bolt hole on the engine. To remedy the problem I just made a "peg leg" out of  piece of angle iron that was a bit longer than the distance to the ground. I was easily able to exert the torque needed because the full weight of the car was countering the pinion shaft rotation (see image). In your case you don't need a plate. Just bolt the angle iron to the flange and tighten.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on March 16, 2019, 05:53:11 AM

Hoping to get out there Sunday and get some stuff done. Even if it is only one or two things, I want to make some progress every week.


Sounds like a plan!!!  Hope it goes well!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

I got something today that should help me do some of this stuff and the Ranchero also.
A Lincoln Handy Mig.
OK, I know it might not be considered a real mig, but it is, just small.
It will be perfect for car sheet metal. I already have a smallish tank that is hopefully still full of 75/25 gas. And 2 HF cheap welding carts. Been procrastinating on building those since I got them last year.

We got our Federal tax refund, and I decided I should buy something I really need to do all this stuff with. I wasn't looking forward to trying to flux core weld using the HF flux core only welder. I have a HF mig as well, but I don't think it is still good. Had it under a tarp but didn't realise the the tarp came off and it got rained on for who  knows how long.
Can't try it out until at least Sunday, Karen has stuff planned for  later today. Ikea.

I guess I forgot to mention the new leaf springs. Afco 138lb. And I bought a pinion seal and differential gasket. Going to change the seal when I swap the rear end housings. Looks like it is leaking pretty good. And I bought a yoke tool. $45 for a 3/8ths thick one that has a spot for a piece of pipe. https://store.bleepinjeep.com/product/yoke-wrench-tool/

Hoping to get out there Sunday and get some stuff done. Even if it is only one or two things, I want to make some progress every week.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Note to self. Always go with your first plan.
Or, how to do a lousy job cutting the dash.
I will get it to look ok, just going to take more work.

I bought a diamond edged metal cutting grinder wheel yesterday.
Tried it out today. It works GREAT!

But, the problem is I overthought how I wanted to cut the dash to fit around the roll cage.
I thought I had a way to make the top section fit without cutting the width very much if at all.I really wanted to avoid cutting anywhere near the vin. And I had to keep reminding myself that sooner or later there will be a windshield, so I have to remember that.

Well, I was wrong. Not for the first time, just ask my wife.  ::)

I cut the top off from the rest of the dash in the area where the pad mounts, so the cut wouldn't show when it was all back together. That was a good idea to hide the cut, but it turns out I shouldn't have cut it like that. I still needed to cut the width, it would have been better to go with my first idea of just cutting the whole dash about 3 inches or so on each end. I will still have to cut the lower part of the dash like that.

I will probably try to weld it back together in the car with it mounted in place later on. Or at least make some brackets to go behind it for support. But planning on doing some welding, and this area won't show.

I also got the gas tank out. I ended up cutting the straps near the bolts. So now I can start really planning on where to cut the spare well out. Speaking of which, while taking the tank out I noticed something in the very front of the well area. There is some sort of thing that the safety plastic shield is attached to that is maybe 3 inches deep from the floor and a few inches wide. It looks like all it is for is that plastic shield thing?
But it is right where I need to cut the front of the well. Going to have to look into that.

Also, the rear of the well is only about an inch or less from the tailight panel. Much different than the 74 wagon setup.
I may have to cut just the well out from the inside of it instead of cutting out a square around it like I had planned. It also isn't centered. The wagon pretty much is.  :(

Sometimes doing crazy mods isn't that easy. :o ;D

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I had to get up at 10 to go to the post office today, so when we got home I forced myself to go out and do something.
I got the trans and engine separated finally. My impact driver ran out of juice before I could get all of the flexplate bolts off. Going to try to get it on the stand tomorrow. Might have to buy some bolts to mount it. Don't have a can of misc. bolts laying around like I used to when I was young and doing this stuff all the time.

And I found out the engine has been rebuilt. I took the passenger side exhaust manifold off so I could get to the starter and noticed something. It has a tag on it. And I don't like how the block looks near the tag.

Now I am a bit worried about it. I've been debating with myself for a few weeks about if I should open it up and regasket everything at a minimum. I think today has finished that debate.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I guess I never looked at the 79 front end much before. Mine had the grill and stuff in the car. Just looks "off" to me. Yeah, I will use the 74 stuff I have, but will need a small bumper and valance. Oh, and a grill.

As far as the bouncing around stuff, it would be nice to just get something finished. I just need to force myself to do it.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Russ,


A lot of people think it's necessary to see one thing through before starting another.  My personal feeling is that any progress is still progress.  Shifting focus on a project of this sort may slow things down a bit but, if you stick with it, the destination is still the same. 


I don't mind the looks of the '79/'80 Pintos but if you prefer the appearance of the older ones, then why not use the sheet metal from your '74.  In a project of this sort, you build the car that YOU want.


I know it gets really hot out there, but maybe it won't be too bad the end of April.  Hope not anyway!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, pretty much all spent on my end.
Bought a pair of Speedway strut rods (the stock ones) and an Edelbrock rebuild kit for the carb I originally was going to use on the Ranchero but now it is a Pinto carb. Already have the book on those carbs. Been 30 years or more since I tore into a carb. I've heard the carb cleaners aren't so good anymore, guess I will find out.

I did buy a video game I've been wanting. It is the Sony PlayStation Classic Console, the little mini one loaded with a bunch of games. Price dropped to under $40, couldn't refuse. I have the Nintendo NES mini, but missed getting the SNES one before they sold out and are now going for over $100. Maybe someday.

Maybe I shouldn't have bought the strut rods, but I decided I didn't want to use my limited time/energy cleaning up the originals. At $60 for the pair, it's not the worst thing I have bought by a long shot.

Double checked, my next week off is the end of April/first of May. Might be a tad warm by then, but honestly it might be better for me to be in heat than cold the way my body is getting. Going to try to pick away at it some each weekend before then. I may have adhd, it's hard for me to stick with doing one thing at a time. I always tend to start something, then get tired of that and move to another thing. Etc. I can focus, it is just hard. I've always been this way, I just never knew in my younger days that it wasn't so normal.

See, talking about the Pinto and get sidetracked.

ETA: I am pretty sure I am going to swap to the 74 front sheet metal. Been looking at pictures of the 79's and I just don't really like it. I will also be doing the small bumper, most likely fiberglass. Will have to come up with the valance panel. I've asked in the General forum if anyone knows if MAP351 is still making his stuff. I also will have to remove the cowl scoop from the 79 hood and put it on the 74. This will probably all be after the car is on the road though. Maybe.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

well, I think I've decided how to pull the rear end. I'm just going to unbolt the leaf springs and pull it all out. No shocks to worry about.
Yes, I just ordered new leaf springs.
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/AFCO-20311-Pinto-Mini-Stock-Leaf-Spring-138-Lb-Rate,24115.html
Not sure why, but I started thinking I should get new ones a couple of days ago. These are about $40 more for the pair than the Landrum brand they also sell, but the AFCO just sounded like a better product from reading the descriptions.
Might be too harsh, but I doubt it. I'm kind of going for a go kart feel anyway. I can always change them later if they are too bad for me.
Need to get some shackles. Thinking about getting the old style long ones that we all used in the 70's, only cutting them down to match the stock ones. Need bigger bolts than the stock ones have, plus I'd like thicker steel. Ordered some poly bushings for the rear ends of the springs as well. These fit the Pintos, but the bolt holes are too big for stock shackles. They actually are for Chryslers of some sort.
Also ordered the AN fittings I think I will need for the fuel cell/fuel line. At least for the back end of the car. Already have half inch fuel line waiting to be used.

For anyone asking, YES, our state tax refund came today. We are splitting it, and I've spent about 2/3rds of mine in one go. Slowly whittling down the wish list at Speedway anyway. Mostly AC stuff left on that one, and that stuff will have to wait.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks.

The March deadline is really the end of March, so I still have time. But it most likely won't happen. But we have had some family issues to deal with, so the Pinto is not number one right now. As long as I am making progress, she really doesn't care about the deadline.
Plus, we are getting a decent tax return, so she can spend money anyway.  ::) So can I, hopefully. But our Subaru might be needing some repairs, some I can do and some I can't. Have to see.

As far as the trans, yeah, this is the one to use for my situation. When I found it for sale on OfferUp, I was crossing my fingers that he wouldn't sell it before I got the money to buy it. He did have it listed funny, I only found it by accident.

Russ

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Wittsend

So, I guess the March deadline... has slipped by the wife unnoticed... . Don't discount those nights (working quietly) because shortly the 90+ degree weather will be upon you.

The 2.95 1st T-5 you acquired is a desirable gear set to have. Especially with a higher torque engine and a light weight car.

russosborne

YAY, SCOTT  ;D ;D ;D
We're back! Been going through withdrawals for sure.
One thing I've learned is I need to keep a copy of important posts on my computer so I can reference them if the site or the internet is down.

Got good news and not so good news.

I bought a Tremec aftermarket T5 off of CL locally for $600.
Here's the info for it.
1352-251   A/M 79-93           330            2.95 1.94 1.34 1.1 0.63 -  2.76           
Won't know for sure until I use it, but from the bench checks I could do without opening it, it seems ok.
Actually bought it the Sunday the site went down. Seller has a Fox Mustang he is having  a monster engine built and knew the T5 can't hold it.

I started to put the front end together, and went to mount the spindles, and realized I didn't have the castle nuts for the upper ball joints. These were the ones I bought at a swap meet here a few years ago for the 74 orginally. I guess I just never paid attention if the nuts were there. I had to order some off of Amazon, got them but haven't been able to get back to the car since I received them.

I did finally get the hatch lift supports (along with the body mounts) installed. Nice. The hatch opens by itself now, and I don't have to hold it up anymore.

I sold the Miata seats. Took my usual bath on them, I took $75 for them, had them listed for $125. Guy is on disability. Why not. Needed them gone more than I needed the extra money. He was the only one interested in them.
Bought a HF engine stand (new, with 20% coupon)from HF.
Also a bag full of Taylor wire loom T's of different sizes cheap off of CL. I have several factory harnesses from different cars for the actual looms, but not many connectors/T's. And I found out they aren't cheap brand new.

Figured out how I am going to install the dash. More or less, need to decide on details. But I am basically going to cut the ends off of it by about 4 or so inches. Don't want to cut too close to the VIN. Don't want to draw attention any more than I have to. Yeah, full cage. That won't draw attention. ;D That is one of the decisions yet. That way the main part can still be installed/removed normally in between the cage. I will permanently mount the ends (at least that is the thinking right now). One thought I just had is to leave the top of the dash alone, and cut just the face. Might be able to angle the main part in, but I have to remember normally there will be a windshield there. Got to play around with it some more.
But at least I do have 1 solution that will work for sure.

This was a vacation week for me, and I didn't get much done. Did go to a new doctor as my previous one moved to a group I can't go to with my insurance. He has some concerns, some of which are affecting my get up and go. Hopefully we can get some of it improved. Got another week vacation in a month I think. Or two months, I can't remember right now. It's either the end of March into April, or end of April into May.  :-[
Anyway, I am trying to be a good neighbor and not making noise outside after dark, which is the time I actually tend to want to get started. Just had an idea to not make noise at least while dropping things. Put a blanket or something under the work area.  :-\ I have plenty of good halogen work lights (bought off of Facebook I think, my wife actually found them for sale for me) so lighting isn't an issue.

Thanks,
Russ



In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Interesting.
I was trying to learn about the Spal Fan-PWM that came with the fan. Apparently it has been taken off the market a while back, and it isn't on their website.
The reason I got a new one (as well as the old one the seller had) was that his original one got wet and quit working. This might be why they took it off the market, but I can't find anything for sure. Not interested enough to spend too much tiime on it.
The new one was a warranty replacement. Thinking about opening up the old one and seeing if I can fix it. I am an electronic tech after all.  :o Depends if there are any proprietary chips/programming on the board, though.

Wondering if Spal taking it off the market is a reason he had such a hard time selling this stuff. Like I said before, $125 was the top end of the price I was willing to pay for the fan. Didn't want to pay more for something extra I didn't want/need.

I am definitely not going to use it. I like how I have the Ranchero fan wired up and will be doing the same thing with the Pinto. A small relay that is triggered by the temp sensor, and that relay in turn triggers a continuous duty 100 amp or more (don't remember and can't find the one I have online) solenoid like the Ford starter solenoid, only the Ford isn't continuous duty, that powers the fan. The Lincoln fan draws a lot of current.

Don't know what I will do with the Spal stuff. Doubt if it is worth trying to sell since they took it off the market. Maybe just keep the harnesses that came with them (used one and a new one) and toss the modules. If someone here wants them with the harnesses for the shipping cost, let me know. Supposedly they work good when they work.

I came across this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072KJNPHJ?pf_rd_p=c2945051-950f-485c-b4df-15aac5223b10&pf_rd_r=SJWJ2PHDNC8EF0EME1FW
while looking for the Spal stuff. It is similar to the Jeep Cherokee engine fuse box I am using, only it is new and doesn't come with relays/fuses/wiring. But pretty cheap if you need one and can't find a Cherokee to steal it from.

Got a new boss at work. I actually had to go in to work Saturday. GRRRRR. I work 10-12 hour days during the week so I don't have to work weekends. I won't be working that much during the week if I have to start working Saturdays. Plus I easily could have gotten what he wanted me to do today(saturday) done Friday night, only I didn't since I HAD to go in Saturday.
So I got nothing done that needed doing. Now I have to try to cram it all in on Sunday. I hate that. Sunday is supposed to be my rest day. Not in a religious sense, I just need one day for doing nothing.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Picked up a Lincoln Mk VIII fan and a Spal pwm controller before work today. I'm not sure if I can use the controller the way I power the fan, but I'll see what I can find out.
$125. Been watching it on offerup, original price was $200. Didn't want the fan that bad, but what I paid for it is a good price for just the fan.

Thanks
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I'm out of room.
Still have those seats in the back of the Subaru.  :-[
Once I get Bill's wheels shipped I will set the seats in the Pinto for now.

Still waffling on the Miata seats. But I really should just sell them. Or try to make some room in our storage place.

Going to really try to get the leftovers from the Mustang on CL and OfferUp later today. Doubt I will get much if anything, but need to try.

Going to order the ball joint wrench from Speedway the 31st. Need to get the front rolling so I can move the car up a bit to get the whole thing on the flat part of the driveway. I tried to get the rear up where it is now, but it was too iffy for me. Couldn't trust it. Another foot or so forward should be good.

I did get some cleaning done. This past week was the monthly bulk pickup, and I ended up putting the Pinto stock suspension out, along with the Ranchero's stock front coils. Did that Saturday night. Someone took it all by Sunday morning. Assuming it was a scrapper. Wish I could have gotten the 6.75 74 Pinto rear and the Crown Vic I took the disk brakes off of out front, but my back just flat said NO! So next month they will go. Got the Ranchero bed cleaned out, it was being used as a storage place, but most of what was there needed to be tossed. Looks a lot better now.

Thanks,
Russ

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks.
They are attached, plus I don't have a vise. That's on the need to get sooner or later list.
I keep forgetting to see what size wrench I need.
ETA, looks like 1 and 15/16ths. Speedway sells a spanner wrench for like $13 for these bushings.

Bought some different seats the other day. Not the greatest, and not what I really want, but for now they should work. For $60. Can always put covers on them.
Don't even know what they are out of, the seller had bought them used a couple of years ago and didn't remember.
Definitely need a good cleaning. But at least I can use the 4 point harnesses with these. Assuming they will fit in the car.

Trying to decide what to do with the Miata seats. Probably end up selling them, but part of me wants to keep them for the Ranchero.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Wittsend

If the suspension arms are not attached use a vise as the socket to hold the ball, and the arm itself as the wrench to tighten it. Just be careful with those fine threads.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on January 12, 2019, 04:19:17 PM

Odds of making my March deadline aren't good. But as long as I am making decent progress my wife isn't going to hold me to that deadline. But it will start to hit 100 degrees here in April, so there is a real deadline there.


Well, you're making progress and Karen is in a position to see that for herself, so I think you'll be just fine so long as you can finish it up before it gets so terribly hot.

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Or not. :-[

All I've gotten done since my last post is to get the control arms installed loosely since you don't want to fully tighten things until the car is on the ground under load. I should have put the lower ball joints on but I had a question on those since I've never used screw in ones before. Got that answered, but haven't gotten back out. I think I am going to have to buy a big wrench for the ball joints, another thing I didn't think about.

I am really surprised I got as much as I did done. I am going to go out as soon as I wake up here (lots of diet Dr. Pepper) and try to get the gas tank out at least. Problem I am having working on the back of the car is that the back is on the sloped part of my driveway. Not a huge slope, but enough to make me not want to trust the car being on jack stands on that part. :(

Back to trying to get things done on weekends for now. I'll take another week off in maybe late Feb or early March. Need to get back into the overtime at work to get some more money for the transmission, windshield, and misc. stuff here and there.
Odds of making my March deadline aren't good. But as long as I am making decent progress my wife isn't going to hold me to that deadline. But it will start to hit 100 degrees here in April, so there is a real deadline there.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Well, perhaps after a day away from it, you can approach the Pinto with renewed vigor!  Go for it!!!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, today was the day I'd been dreading.
A nothing day.
Had to do some other stuff and just got nothing done with the Pinto.
And really tired on top of it all. I had to finish up Karen's work bench also.

I did get a grease gun, some grease, and a bearing packer though.
So I should be all set for tomorrow.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

a few progress pictures, and one of the wiring that came off the 351.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I'm trying, but I am running out of gas.
Had to get up early today to run and get a floor jack (used of course) for $40. Close to full size, it's a Pittsburgh (HF). Couldn't refuse.
Working on painting the crossmember, need to go out and do the second coat.

Probably won't get anything else done today on the Pinto, got a pair of workbench legs I had ordered, Karen needs a bench to do wood sanding and cutting. Bought her a compound miter saw a while back, need the bench for it also. She has a Silhouette vinyl cutting machine and is now making signs with cutesy sayings on them. Uses painted wood for the base. https://www.amazon.com/Silhouette-Cameo-Starter-Bundle/dp/B00NAX7H78
I can use this for thin sheet plastic for custom model parts, if I ever get back to that. I will some day, but I can only handle one hobby at a time.

Probably end up using 2x4s again for the bench top. Saw a solid door on CL cheap, but it's just too big to fit in the Subaru. I need the Ranchero running.
I need to mount the miter saw lower than the top, so the cutting surface is level with the bench top. Shouldn't be too hard, I am pretty creative with wood.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on January 07, 2019, 03:45:55 PM
Well, first of all I am getting tired of being about the only one with new posts showing up on the main page.
I'm really not a post whore.
:o



No, you're not... but I think you're the main one actively working on a project at the moment.  Keep up the good work!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Better late than never I guess.
Here's a couple of naked front Pinto pictures. And yes, I had to unbolt the rack to get the lower control arms off.
I didn't get any of the new paint yet.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, first of all I am getting tired of being about the only one with new posts showing up on the main page.
I'm really not a post whore.
:o

But seriously, got some stuff done today. Got to go back out and clean up and cover up shortly, but I'm giving the Tylenol a chance to kick in first.

Got the front frame and cage painted. I still need to do the cross member.
Started out using my grinder with a cheap set of wire wheels/brushes. They actually worked pretty good. Better than I did. I got the driver's side cleaned up, and ran out of gas. So I just painted the rest. It doesn't look much different, but I will go back someday after it is all together and running and redo it. Someday.  :-[
I do need to wire wheel the cross memeber and didn't want to do it with wet paint in the area, so I will try to tackle that tomorrow.

I also got the lower tubular control arms painted. These are the Speedway brand, and come bare metal. You'd think they could paint or coat them and just charge a few dollars more.  I thought of powder coating them, but they come with the bushing installed, and they would look out of place with the other stuff painted, at least to me. That's another down the road thing I may do if I get rich.  I used VHT Rollbar and Chassis spray paint on everything. Probably about 5 coats on the frame/cage, and 4 on the arms. Should last a while.  ::)

Then after a break, (yes, lots of those) I went out intending to separate the trans from the engine. Well, after looking at it a bit I realised it would be a lot easier if I removed the wiring harnesses and stuff cluttering it all up just to get to the starter. Started looking at that and decided it wasn't worth trying to "save" it for selling, and besides I go to junk yards to buy harnesses, here's one in my lap.  8) So I got it off with only a few snips, well maybe 8-10. I only cut connectors off that I would never use anyway.
You can actually tell there is an engine there now.

I'm still going to try to sell the EFI stuff, upper and lower intakes, fuel rails and injectors. But being a 5.8L truck only deal it probably won't sell. But no big loss if it doesn't. I'll be one of "those" people on Craigslist who has it on there forever. And Offer Up as well.  ;D The 5.8 EFI upper intake is huge. No way it would fit in a Pinto without a scoop.

I'll get some pictures with our camera, I don't have any luck with my phone and this computer for some reason.

Tomorrow paint the crossmember, and maybe start on the new parts. Although I need to get the gas tank off, and the rear pulled. Start fitting the fuel cell and battery box. Have I mentioned that I am putting the battery in the inside of the car? I'm going to use the same battery we have now in the Subaru, a Bosche AGM type. Wasn't a lot more than the regular acid type. Be perfect for the Pinto. I was planning on putting it underneath with the fuel cell, but I just feel more comfortable with it inside the car. I'll still vent the box to the outside just in case.

Wow, it just hit me. I can't believe I am actually doing this! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I am too old for this.

To quote my favorite tv Dr., "The pain, the pain!"

I got the passenger side off. Didn't go as smoothly as the other side, I ended up having to separate the upper control arm and ball joint as I couldn't get the control arm bolts off without lifting the control arm up some. Once I got it up, impact took them right off, but I couldn't break them loose otherwise. Can only get an open end wrench on them when they are in the assembled position and the driver's side came loose right away.

I was seriously thinking about trying our new plasma cutter, but I was worried I might not stop.

Hoping it warms up tomorrow, I need to sand and paint before I can start assembling the new front suspension and brakes.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I've been able to get about 3 hours worth of work in, in spurts.

Taking another break right now do to old man body.

Got about 1.5 hours in earlier, then it started raining. Worked out good actually, because I forgot to charge the batteries for the impact wrench/driver/whatever you call it. Thing doesn't work great when the battery isn't very full. I have to remember when it stops loosening stuff it's time for the other battery, instead of cussing it out like I was  doing earlier.
After the first battery recharged, I went back out. Finally got the driver's side suspension/brakes off. Learned a couple of things to remember when I go back out to do the passenger side.

Sky outside reminds me of back east when it is getting ready to snow. 20 degrees cooler and it might snow here. But it is supposed to be warming up back to near normal this week. Hope so, got a lot to do.

Oh, I HIGHLY recommend Mechanix (spelling?) brand gloves. I borrowed my work pair (haven't needed them there lately) just in case. I normally don't like wearing gloves at all, but it was a bit cool outside and very damp so I tried them. Very nice. If you are only handling things like wrenches or sockets there is no problem with grip. Grabbing something really small probably would be difficult. I'm going to have to buy a replacement pair as I may be keeping these.

Got about 2 good hours of sunlight left. Hoping I can get the other side off quicker than the first.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Mother Nature does have a way of interfering with our best intentions, doesn't she?  Here's hoping it will clear up and you can get out there today!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.