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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New to me 79 Pinto glass hatch ESS

Started by russosborne, April 01, 2018, 01:43:15 AM

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russosborne

Thanks.

I think I have about everything for the rear axle.
bought these
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cee-2022
and these
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afc-20235-4
some leaf spring u bolts that I hope fit
and a gasket and nuts for the pumpkin.
I should have had the other housing painted by now, but can't get to it without moving a bunch of stuff. Add 20 degrees to the outside temp and that is about what it is in our storeroom (enclosed carport, no insulation).

i have to drag the Pinto forward about 2 feet so I can safely put the rear on jackstands. Maybe this weekend. Then I can finally finish getting the old rear end and leaf springs out.Car is actually sitting on the springs, they are on Harbor Freight dollies. Not the best thing in the world, so I don't get under the car much in the rear. And only with a floor jack for support in case.

We are having to buy a new to us vehicle, probably a late 90's Ranger, although I have found a 73 Ranchero in our budget. Waiting to actually get the cash before talking to anyone, but that is my priority for right now.Whatever we get CAN'T be any sort of project. Has to be ready to go from day one.

The Subaru is going to be parked and worked on a bit at a time, and will be our emergency vehicle. Needs normal stuff, brakes, struts, ac work, clutch soon, but the main worry is the front differential. Viscous coupling I believe it is. According to people on a Subaru forum, it sounds like it is about to go.

Need something will really cold a/c here. I just don't have enough faith in the Subaru at this point to want to put all of our money into it just to have something else go bad. I know, it's a chance with a used car as well. But hopefully I can weed out the bad stuff (yes, I learned a lesson with the Ranchero, take my time looking at it).

Anyway, back to Pinto land. My goal this winter is to at least get everything but the engine done. Seeing as I have most everything I will need already, just a matter of doing it. Even including getting the engine/transmission mounts ready. I would like to get the engine together and the car running, but we will have to wait and see, as that part will take money. And I still really want a Cleveland in it.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: russosborne on August 23, 2019, 04:54:37 AM
Seems the older I get (just turned 60) the harder I have dealing with the heat.


A belated Happy Birthday!  I hear you, buddy... I'm a couple years older than you and I don't handle the heat nearly as well as I used to.  Of course, I live in an air conditioned house, drive air conditioned vehicles, and work in an air conditioned facility.  I suppose my body has so little exposure to high temperatures that it's lost its ability to cope.  Just another victim of modern technology.  lol

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Seems the older I get (just turned 60) the harder I have dealing with the heat.

Don't tell Karen, but I spent a little money on the Pinto. Some nuts for the pumpkin, and a pair of aluminum bushings for the front of the leaf springs. Been wanting them for a year, decided I might as well do it so I can't use not having them as an excuse for not putting the springs on the car. Not made for the Pinto, but they are the correct diameter for the Afco springs. I might have to cut the length a bit. Will find out for sure once I get them. Can't remember if I mentioned I bought greasible bolts for the bushings back in the spring. Hollow, with a zerk fitting on one end. I'm getting fancy in my old age.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Hi Russ!


Glad to know you're still hanging in there!  Progress should speed up some when the temperature begins to cool.  In the meantime, I hope you're having a terrific summer!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Well, I haven't given up yet.
This heat is not doing me any favors.
But I am really getting excited for cooler weather to get here.
So, I think I posted this list last year. I've modified it some for this year. Eliminated what I got done, and added some stuff.

things to do with the pinto by last weekend of October 2019.


paint front frame, cage, firewall, and new suspension parts. Partially done.

install new front suspension.

install new front brakes.

get rear end together and installed with new springs.

Get the car on 4 wheels again. (have them sitting and waiting)(at least temporary ones)

empty interior of last loose stuff.

take a good look at interior and floor. especially cage and subrame connectors.

loosely mount fuel cell with mounting kit. Start figuring out fuel fill stuff.

Right now I am still doing vacuum tube electronics in the air conditioning. Having fun with it. But really getting anxious to work on the cars again.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Well, as they say, Rome wasn't built in a day!  You'll get there!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

I mentioned a little bit ago that I bought a mounting kit for the radiator.
Well, this is it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00383WP9A/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Says it isn't available currently, but I have one.
I could seriously have done better on my own, but I did't know that when I ordered it.
Oh, well. I can use it for a pattern if nothing else.
A couple of 1x tubes of aluminum about 20 inches tall or so, a couple of aluminum rods with threaded ends about 30 inches long, and 4 straps, maybe 3/4 wide with a couple of bends in each.
This mounts to the radiator, but then I still have to figure out how to mount it to the car.
Didn't actually cost me anything, I used a gift certificate I got from work.


Hasn't been any progress made on the Pinto. Trying to work too much during the week is causing me to lose at least one weekend day to exhaustion. Plus I hurt my already hurting back this week. Bent over  wrong, felt something give. Still can't stand up straight without lot's of pain.

And it has finally warmed up to where it is supposed to be for Phoenix in June.

Wife needs thousands of dollars worth of work done to her teeth. And cataract surgery that is helping her to be blind in one eye, besides the macular stuff. So I am down to spending pennies on anything else. Need to spend a bit on the Pinto to get it on all four tires, then I probably am done spending for a good while. I'll be able to keep at it though. Wiring still needs done, mounting the engine and trans. Stuff I have the needed (mostly) stuff to do. Will always be able to squeeze a little into the budget.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I used to have a 69 Mustang. Used to filling those up. I would like to use the stock location, but not thrilled with the idea of having the filler tube running that much in the hatch area. Once I get the cell located I can get a better idea of what I have to do.

The fuel cell will be below the floor, either the stock one or one I will build out of 14 gauge sheet metal. Hoping to have it completely underneath the stock floor (yes, I will have to make the part where the spare was). Depends on how the mounting brackets I have fit.

Definitely a work in progress and plans always change.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

Wittsend

How would you define "Inside the car?"  Many cars, Ford for instance, in the Falcon, used the top of the fuel tank as the floor of the trunk. It dropped in a large opening and there was a flange that screwed to the tank to the trunk floor. So the bulk of the tank suspended downward out of the trunk area and could be thought of as being external. But, the top of the tank being the trunk floor arguably could have constituted it as being "In the car."  Months ago when you cut out the spare tire well I assumed you were considering a tank much like I described used in the Falcon.

On another note having the filler neck externally on the rear of the Pinto (I assume you mean between the two tail lights) does force the fuel tank/cell pretty much below the trunk floor as liquids do not flow upward. I'd also advise against a a rear mount fuel filler neck for two reasons. One, in a rear impact it is more susceptible to ripping loose. Second, the filler neck will be perpendicular (90 degrees) to the road and that is an awkward position to hold the fuel nozzle at the station.  This isn't very self evident until you fill up a 60's era car (my '64 Studebaker for instance) and feel like you are doing palliates in the process of pumping gas.

russosborne

I cut out the spare tire tub. It's a waste of space with big 15 inch tires. 😁
In a hatchback I would never put the cell inside the car. It will be going underneath a floor. Routing the filler tube is the question. I won't have it where I would have to fill it up from inside the car.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

pinto_one

I also think that having a gas tank inside of the car with you is a bad idea even if its a fuel cell , they are other options , one I have done is a idea you may want to think on , one is the car going to be on the street or just track only , giving the 15 gallon tank makes me say you are for the street , two is placment for saftey , under car would be best , next your car has a full roll cage , and did they cut out the spare tire tubb ??  thirty years ago I built a runabout up with a turbo 2.3 , rear hach leaked and rusted up the tire tubb , I cut it out and bolted a large piece of  0.125 2024 T4 alum plate , then bolted a boat tank to the bottom of it and welded a nipple the same size as the filler tube and made a crossover to the tank , it also had a sender which matched the fuel gauge , it held 18 gallons and worked great on the cheep , if for drag strip only you could bolt a fuel cell under it and do the same , this is a few ideas that you can ponder on , even tape a cardbourd box tothe bottem to get even more ideas ,  a 12 X 12 box will hold a tad over 7 gallons ,, good luck ,  later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

russosborne

I did get out there. Got the rear loose from the car.
However, I am going to have to take the leaf springs off before I can yank the rear out from under.
The problem with that is right now the leaf springs are what is holding the rear of the car off the ground. They are setting on Harbor Freight car dollies. The cheap $40 or so a pair ones.  And I can't safely put the car on jackstands in the rear because the rear of the car is on the sloped part of my driveway.
I need to get the car moved about 2-3 feet forward. I should be able to do that shortly.
I had thought I could maneuver the rear end enough to clear everything, but nope.
Oh, well.

I have to think about where to place the fuel cell. As in, do I want it centered, or sitting to the passenger side? I weigh over 300. Normally won't be a passenger in the car. So thinking having the cell off center will help offset my weight. I have to do some thinking/searching on this one. Having it offset to the passenger side will effect where I can put the battery, as I realised today. I had cut out the spare tire well a while back, and it is offset to the passenger side, which got me thinking about this in the first place. The cell is relatively small, 15 gallons, but little. So there should be plenty of wiggle room to mount it wherever I come up with as the best. I am definitely open to opinions on this.
I have decided, if I center the cell, to run a fuel filler tube like the vintage Mustangs, middle of the rear above the bumper. Will be a lot easier than trying to route a fuel filler tube to the stock location. I never liked the idea of having that much fuel filler inside the car. I can box in the filler tube easily if I run it out the back.

Depression sucks. Once I get my butt out there it is ok, but getting myself to actually get started is the hard part.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Well, wont' be working tomorrow after all.
Dealing with the idiot I talked about in another post wiped out my saturday and most of sunday. so tomorrow I will get some stuff done on the Pinto instead of working.
Probably didn't need to spend that money anyway.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Hmm, the picture is gone now. ???
Guess it will be best not to post any more pictures until Scott gets everything back together.

I've got a potential dilemma.  :-\
Came across someone selling an 83 5.0 running engine for $350. Not quite what I want, but then the 351W isn't either. But it would be much quicker to get the Pinto on the road again. (cue Willie Nelson).
Now, by the time I get that much cash together (middle of June) it will likely be sold. But, if not I might go for it. The T5 stuff will all work. I would have to get a flywheel for that style engine (think they were 50 oz balance by then) but I have to buy a flywheel and clutch either way. I don't know if it comes with all accessories and carb/etc. Not going to bother the guy with questions until much closer to the time I would have the cash. If it doesn't come with the intake/carb, I would have to buy those, as I have an intake for a 351W and a larger carb that would be too much for a stockish or even a not so stockish 5.0. Maybe even the 351W. It was meant for my Cleveland in the Ranchero.

Being able to just drop in a running engine would be great, but then I don't have the best of luck with that. The 351W was supposed to be that.  :-[

Going to try to get the rear end out this weekend. Just need to cut the passenger side u bolts.  Need to get a couple of saw horses to set the other one on to clean/paint/assemble. Was going to get the cheap HF ones, glad I didn't. Read the reviews on those, not good. Not good for a 2x4, definitely not for a rear end.
Maybe start mocking up the fuel cell mounting. Maybe pick a spot for the battery box. Have I mentioned I am going to put the fuse box right next to that? Will find or make a little box for it, more to keep it hidden from prying eyes. Having a glass hatch can be a bit revealing.  :o
I am working Monday, will be pure overtime. That is how I am getting the extra cash. Either for that 5.0, or a cam and springs for the 351 someone is selling on the Mustang forum. At least that is the plan for the money at the moment. I'm running out of littler things to buy for the Pinto. Clutch, flywheel, hydraulic clutch stuff, driveshaft (probably, doubt if the 2.3l one for the T5 will fit), new disc brake parts for the Crown Vic rear discs. Heat and A/C. Windshield. Can't forget that one. I'm sure once I really get  into it I will find lots of little things I will need, but nothing really is popping into my head at the moment.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

pinto_one

The picture came out well , but the old post listing has not , guess the are still working out the bugs , and doing the same thing at my place , cleaning up and out the old junk that I know I will never use and still working on my retirement complex , its been on year since I have started and halfway there , good luck on yours
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

russosborne

picture test
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Let me try this again. Maybe we can't add pictures to our posts due to the way Scott had to get us back up.

I got the engine on the stand correctly. Even got it half apart. Got rid of the efi stuff, and got the accessories off. And one head removed. Lots of rust in the water passages. Not good. Hoping I can still use this engine. Probably going to have to take it all the way down to the bare block, and have it hot tanked and checked out by a machine shop.

Changed plans with the seats again. I ended up finding some RCI poly seats cheap.  I will eventually get some covers for these, but not until the car is running, unless I somehow come across some really cheap. These are the style I had originally wanted, so it worked out in the long run. My wife isn't happy that these are the third pair.

Got rid of a bunch of stuff the last two bulk trash pickup days. We have those once a month. Although I think both times nothing actually ended up in the trash. In total, the Mustang hatch, door, sway bars, Pinto gas tanks (both the wagon and this one), the wagon driveshaft, the most recent bucket seats, the centerline copy wheels, 5.8 efi stuff, axles from the CV rear, and other misc stuff. About all I have left to drag out is the rear end from the wagon, and the donor Crown Vic rear I took the disk brakes from.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Still in buying mode. Mainly tool stuff.
Bought a boroscope that works with your phone.
Bought a real AC/DC arc welder. Older Century. Probably mid '70's. 220V AC. Will need new leads at some point. Not right away though.
Some thread chasers.
A mounting bracket for the radiator.
A few hundred pounds of scrap steel tubing and a few small pieces of plate. Will be great for welding practice. $12. It just barely fit in the Subaru.

Finally got rid of the Mustang stuff. Bulk trash, but someone took it all before the city. Also got rid of both Pinto gas tanks, and the 74 exhaust.

Probably forgetting about something. Just glad we are back.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Lots and not much. That's what I have been doing to/for the car.
Got the rear end half off. Need a new cut off blade for the grinder. Cutting the U bolts off as I can't get to the nuts on them safely.

Bought a few things. A Lunati dual timing chain. Bunch of stuff for the garage I don't have. An older Montgomery Ward arc welder. Very basic, but it works. A metal cart that will be a good welding table. Thing weighs a ton. An extension cord for the welders. An air line kit, it's a Milton one. Pretty cheap, hope it works. Also got a bunch of Milton V series connectors. Supposed to be good for some extra air flow.

Getting warm here. I have to get busy on this. Or else I will be "sweating ON the oldie Pinto". 😂

Thanks
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

this is a slow process.  :-[

Got a couple of things done today.

Went on a minor road trip, diagonally across Phoenix to a suburb called Gilbert. Picked up an Edelbrock Victor Series High Performance Street Mechanical Water Pumps 8840 from a guy on the vintage Mustang forum. $80. Hoping it works on the 351. Summit's write up only has it for the 5.0 from 86 to 93, but the 5.8/351 should be the same. Could be an outlet position thing or something. Since this is a swap, I am not worried about factory correct.  ;D It's been sitting for many years, but has never been used.

Finally got the engine on the stand. Sort of. It's on, but is rotated 90 degrees and I can't get it to move. I can't get the retaining pin out to rotate it. Will work on it some more maybe tomorrow. Hopefully.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Ordered something to help with making the engine mount brackets.
http://www.swagoffroad.com/SWAG-12-TON-Press-Brake-DIY-Builder-Kit-_p_72.html
I paid the extra $100 to have it fully assembled. I do not want to practice welding on something like this. Plus I don't have a welder capable of the thicknesses involved even if I could weld that well.
Only does up to 13 inches wide with 1/8th, but will be perfect for the brackets.

Tomorrow I am expecting to get some stuff done on the Pinto. Need to get the engine on the stand so I can move the hoist and then move the Pinto forward a foot or two. Then it will be all level, so I can get the rear on jack stands.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Got two things accomplished today.

One was I finally sold the SBF C6. Got a whole $60 for it. Guy who bought it is going to have it rebuilt so he can put it in his wife's truck, which needs a new transmission but he didn't want her to not have it to drive while the original was being rebuilt.

Second was I finally built on of the HF welding carts I bought like a year or more ago. Got the Lincoln Handy Mig and the Lotos ( I never heard of them either until I saw it on the HD site) Plasma cutter (very cheap from Home Depot, hope it works) on it. The gas cylinder is still sitting in the Ranchero. Cart is in the house, so will wait on the gas until ready to use it.

Oh, found someone selling some 1/8th sheet, getting two pieces, each about 40x15, for $30 total. Engine frame mounts here we come. He/they(not sure) has a shop in Tempe, has lots of other sheet metal for sale similar size but different gauges. Same price. Hope to get more when I get paid. Have to get up a bit early today (Monday) so I can go get it before work. But it should be worth it.

Also got some bolts/washers to mount the engine on the stand. It's an HF one, all I am seeing is it slowly collapsing once the engine is on it in my mind. I am sure it will be fine. But....

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Dwayne, that's OUR line. ;)

I just came in from actually touching the Pinto.
And I do mean touch. With a cutoff wheel.
this is just the first rough cut of the trunk floor, there are things underneath that I better not cut, so this was just a quick one to get the biggest piece out of the way. I won't know for sure how much more I need to cut until I get the fuel cell and it's mount mocked up in there. It also depends on if I want it centered. The spare tire well is NOT centered, off to the passenger side quite a bit, and that is pretty much what I cut out today.

and I got a picture of one of the wheels. Made in Brazil. Best I could tell the company is called Mangala? But they are dirty, so maybe I missed the big name. 15x7J. No clue what the J stands for. ???And they are directional. Two have "right" and two have "left". Again, not the ones I want when finished, but these will do the job for now. And they are better than lots of the ones I have been seeing. Current tires on them are P205/70. Will see what else fits these wheels.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Quote from: Wittsend on March 22, 2019, 12:26:29 PM
Anyway, what I had wanted to say was:

"... The result was a 16 X 28 room..."

Sounds like parking for four Pinto's to me!  ;D

You're right, but instead it is parking space for two sorry old worn out bodies.

Dwayne ;D
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

Wittsend

Anyway, what I had wanted to say was:

"... The result was a 16 X 28 room..."

Sounds like parking for four Pinto's to me!  ;D

Wittsend

If you can't read the post above then you grasp my frustration. So many times I will simply cut and paste directly from a PCCA post and it resizes the font when it posts (looks correct prior). WHY???

Wittsend

IIf you can't read this then you grasp my frustrartion. So many tgimes I will simply cut and paste directly from a PCCA post and it resizes the font.

dga57

Those wheels sound like a real steal! 


Can't imagine going from a king to a full bed but I definitely understand about space considerations .  At one point early in our marriage, Gloria and I had a king bed, along with a dresser, chest, and nightstand in a room that was 10 x 12.  No room to get around at all! 


About five years ago we decided to remodel two side-by-side bedrooms in our five bedroom house into a new master bedroom.  The result was a 16 x 28 room with his and hers closets and a seating area that includes an electric fireplace.  Now we have a king bed, a huge dresser, a media chest, two nightstands, a boudoir bench, two chairs, a corner curio and a ficus tree in there and still have lots of space to walk around.  It was a simple project because the two rooms were mirror images of one another.  The closets were in the far corners so nothing needed to be done there.  The windows are to either side of the headboard so again, no alteration needed.  Once the dividing wall was taken out, we closed up one door and re-wired to relocate the light switches to a position beside the remaining door.  The original lights, centered in the rooms, were replaced with recessed can lights and wired to work together off one dimmer switch.  We added a ceiling fan with light between them in the area where the wall had been removed, wired to a separate switch.  I paid an electrician to do all that stuff.  I framed in the doorway and hung the drywall there as well as the drywall to fill in the gaps where the wall had been and had a professional painter do the drywall finishing and new paint.  Once that was all done, I installed new hardwood flooring.  Total cost on the whole thing was about $3500 including the materials, the fan, and the fireplace.  My electrician and painter were co-workers of mine and charged very little, so that was definitely a factor, but I wanted the expertise of professionals and would have hired through normal channels if I had not had a connection.  The demolition, framing/drywall hanging, and floor installation were things I felt comfortable with being DIY projects.  With such a nice room, we decided to furnish it accordingly and spent a little over $10,000 on solid cherry furniture and an adjustable bed.  As far as I'm concerned, it is probably the best investment I've ever made and is the reason that we'll likely live in this house until the day we die.  The biggest aggravation of the whole thing was the assembly of the fireplace (purchased from Home Depot).  The instructions were near useless and it ultimately took two people to hold it together until the final steps were performed by a third person and actually stabilized the whole thing.  My son and daughter-in-law had the honor of getting involved in that mess!  lol  Anyway, I hope you and Karen don't have too much trouble adjusting to your cozier bed; the space you created around it is probably well worth the sacrifice!


Dwayne :) 
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Nightmare is a good word. But I am finally getting over the pain. We went from a king size to a full. Lots more room to get around now, still getting used to the new size though. Don't think the kids (2dogs 1cat) are totally thrilled with it.

Bought something else for the Pinto today. 4 aluminum mag wheels and roller tires. $20. Yes, twenty. I will have to get pictures later, I couldn't copy the ones that were in the ad. Probably 15x7, didn't have time to look. They will work to get the car on the road.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Assembling Ikea furniture is a nightmare compared to working on a Pinto, but at least it is something accomplished!  Hope your muscles will feel better soon!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.