Mini Classifieds

72 pinto wagon. 1 owner. 67K miles
Date: 10/14/2019 08:24 pm
ford pinto door panels
Date: 03/20/2022 07:51 pm
Need 76' coupe rear Glass and Front Grille
Date: 07/20/2017 01:23 am
TWM Intake
Date: 08/15/2018 08:20 pm
Looking for oil dipstick and tube 2.3L
Date: 11/23/2017 05:44 pm
ENGINE COMPLETE 1971 PINTO
Date: 12/28/2017 03:55 pm
Deluxe Steering Wheel
Date: 10/16/2017 08:13 am
Looking for fan shroud for 72' Pinto 1.6
Date: 04/13/2017 04:56 am
72 Pinto
Date: 03/07/2019 12:07 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,577
  • Total Topics: 16,269
  • Online today: 1,090
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 111
  • Total: 111
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Which trans is likely here?

Started by C. M. Wolf, April 12, 2017, 12:39:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pinto_one

The one on the left fits ranger/bronco II  the right one fits mustang II ,  just sold the mustang II headers to a guy in Texas that some how found out I had them , just like the 2.8 pinto headers , Rare . If anyone here know anybody that can copy the old ones let me know , it would be east to set up for the 2.9 or even 4.0 , later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pinto_one

The rusty ones are 2.8 pinto , the new ones are 2.8 mustang ii which had more room
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pinto_one

Your best off using the ranger or Scorpio manifolds , the headers on my 2.8 are tight on the passenger side , but they will not fit the 2.9 due to the exhaust port spacing , took me a few years to find the set I have now , do have a rusty set I was planning on copying and use the 2.9 or 4.0 header flanges , also I just got me a 2.9 top for the future swap in case the 2.8 ever gives up the ghost , the ranger headers will not work at all , i got a 2.8 ranger headers I brought a long time ago to try , and then a set of mustang II headers , nope , the drivers side would work with a few mods but the right side nope ,will post a photo of the right side headersntomshow how tight they are , Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

enzo

Forgot to say, that I also looked at those headers.  I am wondering the same thing.  How will they fit around the Pinto front cross member and the steering shaft? The stock manifold is so close to the right sub frame with the engine offset that I can't get the main knuckles of my hand past the manifold. Will they fit with the engine centered in the chassis?
Has anyone purchased these headers and tried to fit them to a Pinto with a 2.9L engine? 

Any advice is appreciated.
Enzo

enzo

COOL! Glad you guys found some.  I picked one up about 5 years ago just because it looked good and was thinking about maybe doing a 2.9L.  Didn't think they would be extinct in a few years.

In 2013 I rebuilt my 2.8L in the Pinto.  Won't be doing an automotive 2.8L again because of the difficulty finding parts for it.  The Ranger 2.8L is still being supported (barely), so, more likely.  But, then again, too many later model engines that might fit to choose from.  Too many ideas, not enough time and money to realize the projects.

Did you get an engine harness somewhere?, or are you going to make one?  I haven't found a last year Bronco II to strip the engine harness from as suggested by pinto_one.  With my latest wiring problem, not sure I could rewire a late model engine into a Pinto with success anyway!!

Wishing swift movement on your project.
enzo

C. M. Wolf

I GOT ONE! Hooyahh! I've got a Merkur Scorpio 2.9 L Intake(complete) now sitting on my dinning rm table(I'll put it on once I sand-blast the exterior of it, mask it off & paint it the same as the engine & polish the highlights). I've also now gotten(inbound yet) a distributor, & ignition electronics that go w/it. (I'll hand-pick the plug wires for color & size).

My next question to you most Wonderful People is.. Headers? I've a part number from "Pacesetter"(through Summit Racing), PSM-70-1118 ( https://www.summitracing.com/parts/psm-70-1118 ) these are listed for the BroncoII/Ranger-PU, but will they fit into this 1973 Pinto Wagon bolted onto this 2.9 L V6 Engine? (Maybe if I reject the lower "Y-Pipe" & re-set/re-make that lower section, Hopefully w/out having to re-cut or re-bend the actual header itself?)

Please let me know what ya'll think/know about this?

..& Again, many thanks for all the help.

Michael

pinto_one

FOUND TWO !!!!!   located a setup for you place called M-45 , phone number 800 214 2472 ,  1988 murkur Scorpio ,  they have one ,  I also brought one for future just in case mods , (will i ever learn ) in case my 2.8 gives up one day . Later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pinto_one

Found 2 of them , but they are in the U.K. , on E bay U.K. , I have brought a few things for my 2.8 off of E bay there so give it a look and see , just type in Ford 2.9 intake manifold , ask what shipping might be , I might buy one Too ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

C. M. Wolf

Sigh.. Ok, here's the current status on the Ford-Mercury/Merkur-Scorpio 2.9 L Intake Manifold(upper & lower).. a big "0" ,goose-egg so far. "Flowers Wrecking/PA" showed that they 'had' one.. that they crushed 15 yrs ago & they checked some 200 'participating' auto-dismantle-rs & they could find nothing showing/available.

..I simply refuse to put a V-8 into this lil-Pony Wagon.. sigh.. if anyone can shake the bushes of their local areas to turn up a low-profile Intake Manifold that'll fit this 1987- 2.9 L Ranger Engine.. please let me know. The only other alt I can think of is having one cast new from a pro-shop maker.

TIA,
Michael

enzo

No problem!  Glad I was able to help. Let us know how your project is going.
enzo

C. M. Wolf

I suppose I'm having trouble finding them.. well.. mostly because I don't know everything, & I've been looking in "Ford".. as in "Ford-Lincoln-then-Mercury".. sigh I mean, for cryin' out loud.. FORD takes the credit for the lil' monsters AND made the money off 'em too.. lol

Michael

P.S. Well I'll be darned.. there they all are! Just as pretty as ya please.. under "Mercury"! Who'd have thought such a thing? (Go ahead, make fun of me, I guess I deserve it..) ;)
Enzo, I am most grateful for your patients & all your help! If there's anything I can ever do for you, please let me know. :)

enzo

The Merkur XR4Ti and Scorpio were sold in the US under the Mercury brand. The XR4Ti was made from 1985 through mid 1989.
The Scorpio was made mid 1987 through mid 1989. The XR4Ti used the US Ford 2.3 and the Scorpio used the Cologne 2.9 V6.

I looked at car-part again and was able to find the listing for them.  Not sure why you are having trouble.

PM me and I will try to help you.
enzo

C. M. Wolf

Yes I did.. I actually opened the www link you provided. It simply shows nothing "Merkur or Scorpio". ...And they don't answer my emails. I'll try to call by phone.. :(

Michael

enzo

Michael,

Did you put the dash (-) in the address?
Carpart is a different site than I suggested.

Please try again with www.car-part.com.

Enzo.

C. M. Wolf

Quote from: enzo on April 16, 2017, 10:34:46 PM
Try www.car-part.com. Website is easy to use, connected to wrecking yards all over. ...
...You will have to call and specify V6 to them.
Enzo

I guess I'll have to call & see if they carry anything Merkur-Scorpio, I tried to tap that up on their site & it doesn't even show anything nor will it allow it to be typed in.. sigh..

I certainly don't expect to walk around tripping over the parts I need to build this Pinto.. but I do wish it were a touch easier to find the right parts..
I also wish to thank everyone for helping me with this. ;)

Michael

pinto_one

no , the cover is for a 2.0 , which is lower and has the filler up front anyway so should clear well , now a 2.3 i do beleive it would hit , still it would be a nice dress up part for the car ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dick1172762

That front located breather would end up very close to the hood on a Pinto don't you think????
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

pinto_one

for got to post the name of the out fit that makes them ,  Redmond Metalcasting  ,  they are located in Ireland but do ship overseas ,  best part they can put what ever you want printed on top of the cover , also found they make the 2.0 valve covers for the early pintos ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pinto_one

Also some covers for the 2.8 ,   on swapping the bellhousing on you 2.0 to bolt up to the 2.9 yes you can but you have to change the clutch packs in the transmission ,   the 2.0 and 2.3 C-4 only had 2 clutch disk in each pack , Forward clutch pack and high clutch pack,    the V-8 had 5 in each , the small six,s had 3 and large six,s had 4 ,  Got a C-3 transmission out of my pinto when I converted to a A4LD for overdrive , also have a Pinto C-4 (early ) out of a V-6 pinto , been sitting for years , if your nearby you can come take a look at them , Pass Christian ,MS   later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

pinto_one

Good call ENZO , looked at the site and they do have some maifolds listed ,  not a bad price , I also found a mustang 2 that some had used that manifold on top from a scorpio , and also found that they are some nice cast valve covers that would dress up the engine ,  also looks like you should grab the air cleaner also , that gives me a few more thought on mine , later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

enzo

Try www.car-part.com. Website is easy to use, connected to wrecking yards all over. I have gotten parts through that web site and I'm completely satisfied. I checked before responding and they have the XR4TI and the Scorpio lumped together. You will have to call and specify V6 to them.
Enzo

pinto_one

I have a C-3 and a C-4 transmission that will fit the 2.9 , I have seen a few merkur sites that had the top manifold , just have to find it , and yes I agree on not cutting the hood ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

C. M. Wolf

Many Thanks for the response.

So, I'll need a different bell housing to bolt in this 2.9 engine? Is there Ranger Bell that 'will' bolt onto this C-4 trans & are the splines also a match?

I've been looking into the "Merkur Scorpio" intake set-up, I just don't seem to find one available. If you have any leads, please let me know. My only other alt is to cut the hood & set a custom-reversed scoop over the cut. (Do-able, but I'd rather not cut the hood). I'll be making my own custom grill & wheel flares as it is.

I look forward to hearing more on this.. again, Many Thanks.

Michael

pinto_one

If you have the 2.0 pinto (German) it has he C-4 , the 2.9 has to he same belhousing As the 2.8 , and no the 2.0 bell will not bolt up , last year for the 2.0 in the pinto was 1974 , change mounts on frame , easy . 73 down , hard but can be done , the 2.8 engine mounts will bolt to the 2.9 , and oil pan too , use the 2.9 merkur Scorpio top intake , its low profile ,




76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

C. M. Wolf

The Spec-Tag reads "M" for trans?.. originally equipped w/a 2.0 engine & currently has a floor-shift 3sd auto-trans.

I'm having to do a LOT of research on everything "Pinto" & now "Ranger"(Pick-Up) because I'm trying to place a Ranger Cologne 1987 2.9 L engine(the redesigned head-version) where the Cologne-2.0 L engine now is. (I understand there's nothing like climbing under it to read the trans-tag & measuring everything myself, but all the help I can get BEFORE I pull the engine is most appreciated.. I'm till driving it around some while I get everything ready to rework it..).

Many Thanks in Advance..

Michael