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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2.3 EFI 1987 Mustang Pinto swap into a 79 Pinto

Started by dianne, January 25, 2015, 01:02:36 PM

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pinto_one

Not to bad , just have shorten it some and toss what you don't need , best is to look at the wiring diagram (colored coded in real color) on a table in a quite place , and take time to look it over , you will see how simple it is
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Wiring mess :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

oldkayaker

Below is a link to a 1988 Mustang EVTM.  Might be close enough for the 1987 ecm, but look for discrepancies.  For a exact match, hard copy EVTM's can found on ebay.  See page 26 in the link for the main power and ground connections.  Note their are several levels of power and grounds used to avoid electrical noise and circulating currents, so it is good to watch the details.
http://home.comcast.net/~smithmonte/Auto/1988_Mustang_EVTM.htm
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

ahuffman_09

I've searched and couldn't find anything but does someone know what wires on the ecm i need to tap into for power and ground?

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 17, 2015, 05:54:11 AM
I think I used a 55 gallon drum full of parts when I done my 76 , almost got the other drum full enough to start working on my Cruze wagon , 😜

You're crazier than me ahahahahahahahaha

Well, I can't wait to see what happens with the new flex plate :) Then it's rewiring.

This probably should have been under the 79 Pinto build to help someone else.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

I think I used a 55 gallon drum full of parts when I done my 76 , almost got the other drum full enough to start working on my Cruze wagon , 😜
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on June 16, 2015, 09:52:19 PM
A bucket of parts from different years and models makes for an interesting puzzle, lol.. :D

It sure had, I can't wait to get to the turbo in the wagon LOL
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

74 PintoWagon

A bucket of parts from different years and models makes for an interesting puzzle, lol.. :D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dianne

No pilot bearing. Something is not lining up. But again, we have a c4 going in tomorrow I hope if the flex plate gets in. That was going in the wagon on the turbo project, but now that's going manual :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

Wittsend

 Was the crank ever sent out to be turned? Often they just do an exchange. And, if the crank came out of a manual car the pilot bearing might still be in there. This is just a shot in the dark, but stranger things have happened.

pinto_one

Ok , I guess we got some confusion here , I know the C3 and 4 are very different , thought the original problem was you could not get the 79 C-3 trans from the pinto to bolt to the 89 2.3 out of a mustang , it is supposed to work,  botton line ,  but guess something happen to it when you had it apart , but since you got a working C4,and can get it to bolt up go for it ,  kind if hard to help when you can't touch it and your almost a thousand miles away ,  but good luck, let us know what happens ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 16, 2015, 11:21:19 AM
Are you sure you have the right converter, I did notice you had a A4LD on the floor that came out of the t bird for your pinto wagon project , make sure it did not accidentally got the converters mixed up , the converter is a inch longer , that is all it can be , to bad I am so far away to look myself , I do like to solve mysterys ,

Yes, positive. The C3 came out of the Pinto and the C4 was out of the Mustang. Honestly, they are different and I know what came out of the Pinto and the Mustang ;) It's annoying to be honest and the flex plate won't be here until tomorrow :(
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Are you sure you have the right converter, I did notice you had a A4LD on the floor that came out of the t bird for your pinto wagon project , make sure it did not accidentally got the converters mixed up , the converter is a inch longer , that is all it can be , to bad I am so far away to look myself , I do like to solve mysterys ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

The converter is seated. It just doesn't work. The C4 should resolve the problem...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

I'm certain my guys will read this. He knows his stuff, but maybe he can try again...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

They said they even tried to bolt it up to the engine with out the fly wheel and still went into a bind , I still believe that they have not got the converter fully seated into the pump gears , forgot about the seal , early ones used the rope , but ford motor sports had a two piece one to change over , and you are right on all of them sticking out the same on the trans side
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

oldkayaker

Their is a  difference between the 79 and 89 cranks but it should not affect bolting up the transmission components.  The 79 uses a two piece rear main seal and the crank has a oil slinger built in to help keep oil away from the seal.  The 89 uses a more efficient one piece rear main seal and the crank does not have the oil slinger ring. 

As a investigation procedure, have you tried bolting the flex plate on the crank and then the torque converter to the flex plate without the transmission?  You might be able to see if the interference is coming from converter snot.  Final assembly should be with converter seated in the transmission and then slid forward to bolt to the flex plate (stated to avoid confusion). 
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

pinto_one

They dies in the mustang II also , most were people that never left town and stuck in traffic with the A/C wide open on a hot day,  that back then came with the first joke about the pinto ,   Put IN Transmission Often, happen to me, alway stuck in the New Orleans traffic, stop and go and the seals got hard as a rock and lost pressure inside then burnt clutches , installed a larger pan and a oil cooler , problem gone ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

They did good in the Mustang? What's the difference between the two? Do you know why it gets kills in the Pinto and not the Mustang? There are oil cooler lines on the C4? Should I just put in an oil cooler?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 15, 2015, 09:03:52 PM
they make a nice oil pan for the C4 that holds a few more qts of trans fluid and has small tubes to help with some cooling , heat alway killed the C4 in the pinto ,the small torque converter made lots of heat and burned them up in stop and go traffic,

It's probably the same as the one in the Mustang II, but that may have been modified for the mini stock. I'll look into that! Thanks! Do you know what the one was? Where did you get your pans?
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

they make a nice oil pan for the C4 that holds a few more qts of trans fluid and has small tubes to help with some cooling , heat alway killed the C4 in the pinto ,the small torque converter made lots of heat and burned them up in stop and go traffic,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 15, 2015, 08:07:38 PM
Which trans are you going to use ,  and also the the 2.3 cranks are the same from 1974 up to late or early 88 , then they reduced the main bearing size , it stayed that way until the end of the run of the engine,

This one is an 89. Going to go with the C4 when the flex plate comes in tomorrow :) Better transmission anyway :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Which trans are you going to use ,  and also the the 2.3 cranks are the same from 1974 up to late or early 88 , then they reduced the main bearing size , it stayed that way until the end of the run of the engine,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 15, 2015, 06:19:47 PM
The C3 and the C4 flex plates are very different , and having piles of parts in the shop just waiting to be mixed matched , priceless,  that is why I use aircraft safety wire to tie things that must stay together for future projects, the C3 not bolting up to a 2.3 that was once bolted to a2.3 sounds like a good story for a book deal in the future to sove this mystery or sabotage, the plot thickens, 📝👀

LOL and it's thick :) The new flex plate gets here tomorrow. It looks like the cranks are different also in the 79 Pinto and the 89 Mustang...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

The C3 and the C4 flex plates are very different , and having piles of parts in the shop just waiting to be mixed matched , priceless,  that is why I use aircraft safety wire to tie things that must stay together for future projects, the C3 not bolting up to a 2.3 that was once bolted to a2.3 sounds like a good story for a book deal in the future to sove this mystery or sabotage, the plot thickens, 📝👀
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 15, 2015, 04:50:14 PM
Well kind of hard when you can not see it, and guess since it was taken apart and all the peaces were kept together , it should work, unless you have in the shop a A4ld that was taken out of a efi mustang or thunderbird and the converter ended up in the C3 , yes it will go in, but it is an inch longer, the c4 bell housing will have to come off a 2.3 , rare, but if you have one off a 2.0 you will have to use stepped dowels, to center everything up, do not leave the dowel out , it will wear out the pump bushing in no time , good luck , and I hope you find why , later Blaine

The transmission was taken out of the Pinto and everything kept together. If you look up the flex plates for these you'll see how different they look and the C4 flex plate has a concave some. Weird...
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Well kind of hard when you can not see it, and guess since it was taken apart and all the peaces were kept together , it should work, unless you have in the shop a A4ld that was taken out of a efi mustang or thunderbird and the converter ended up in the C3 , yes it will go in, but it is an inch longer, the c4 bell housing will have to come off a 2.3 , rare, but if you have one off a 2.0 you will have to use stepped dowels, to center everything up, do not leave the dowel out , it will wear out the pump bushing in no time , good luck , and I hope you find why , later Blaine
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

ahuffman_09

i've even pulled the converter and rotated it 180* and reinstalled it. trust me the converter is seated all the way. it is not my first rodeo. i have discovered that the c4 bellhousing is longer than the c3. and the converter pilot is not mushroomed. i think you are misunderstanding me. the pilot doesnt get jammed the crank bottoms out on the converter pilot. i think it would need a different converter and/or the bellhousings swapped in order to work. but the c4 will be going in so problem solved.

dianne

Quote from: pinto_one on June 15, 2015, 04:22:24 PM
Well something has changed , the 2.3 cranks shafts are all the same, the converter may have been dropped by accident and not one knew about it, might want to find a trans shop and find a pump gear to test that , a C3 or A4LD will work,, next you will see a taper one one side of the gear , that is to help in alinement to engage the converter, I have found a few installed backwards and they will still work but a bitch to line up, those I stood on the tail shaft with the belhouseing pointing up, and put in the converter and spin it until it drops in the rest of the way , good thinking on trying it with out the flywheel , just make sure the stub shaft on the converter slides all the way in the crank to make sure , that end will bend also when dropped , had a few bite me,s over the years on that also , hope this helps ,

Nothing was dropped Blaine. Aaron actually took the converter out and marked the orientation of the pump drive, put the converter in and rotated 90 degrees and then took transmission out and saw that the pump rotated 90 degrees.

We looked up the crankshaft for these two years, the 79 Pinto and the 89 Mustang engine, and they have two different part numbers. I'm guess something there is different. So in goes the C4 I guess. Then I can convert to a T5 and make the wagon a standard with the turbo :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

pinto_one

Well something has changed , the 2.3 cranks shafts are all the same, the converter may have been dropped by accident and not one knew about it, might want to find a trans shop and find a pump gear to test that , a C3 or A4LD will work,, next you will see a taper one one side of the gear , that is to help in alinement to engage the converter, I have found a few installed backwards and they will still work but a bitch to line up, those I stood on the tail shaft with the belhouseing pointing up, and put in the converter and spin it until it drops in the rest of the way , good thinking on trying it with out the flywheel , just make sure the stub shaft on the converter slides all the way in the crank to make sure , that end will bend also when dropped , had a few bite me,s over the years on that also , hope this helps ,

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0