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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

blow by

Started by bad bean, September 21, 2014, 10:51:08 PM

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bad bean

All that was checked.valve guides cut, spring heights all within.010+ or-, no coil binding.pvt checked.I knew it was rings .til today's leak down i was looking upper end.now I have another question what should my timing be set at with accel dual points distributor mechanical advance no vacuum.looking for idle timing and max timing at what rpms.cam as stated 284/544.just want it to sound it's best while I'm trying to sell it

amc49

Luck buddy, sorry to seem to bring you down and certainly not intentional, just better to hear it like it is rather than smoke.

If no one ever clearanced valve guides/springs/retainers for lift could easily be upstairs as in cracked guide, or maybe a serious seat leak. If valve to piston not correct maybe bent valve. You got big enough cam there all of that should have been checked 100%.

bad bean

Littleton Colorado craigslist.

Wittsend

Well, it has been a tough journey. From building this car for car shows and drags, to having the crankcase pressure issues, to finding out you need a heart transplant, to finding the rings are bad, to attempting to sell the car at an obvious lose.  That is a lot to deal with in a few short weeks!

Everything happens for a reason. So, all I can offer is to try and see the ultimate good that can come out of this. And, hopefully there are brighter days ahead after the important things are completed.

BTW, post the CL link here (I couldn't find it) and perhaps those here can direct a buyer to you. If you going to sell a Pinto, then Pinto owners are probably the most likely source of finding you a buyer.

bad bean

Did another compression test as follows:
#1@160 #2@145 #3@140 #4@155 #5@145 #6@130 #7@150 #8@145.
I completed the leak down test.as expected ring problem all cylinders were at 10-15% but number 6& 8 was at 40% you could here it pushing out valve cover.don't think ring upside down just not seating.or something else.where's overhauling at when you need them.only problem with selling now no one is buying.I have it on cl now, people want to trade don't need trades.

amc49

The car does not care would be my thoughts there..........yes the density difference would drop the number some. All this casting about should clearly show you are not going to get a one size fits all clear cut answer there. Any of the things mentioned are going to affect it. I get in the 160s on 7/1 two stroke engines all day long, would still be like 130 at that altitude.  Anything I've ever built with like 12/1 went way over 200 psi or something was wrong with it. There have been a bunch of those, we built plenty of bracket race engines of all types at our family shop. 200 psi sea level adjusted for 20% off at 1 mile up still is 160. I'm at about 500-550 foot here.

My view here would be play stupid, fix the breather issue and sell the car while still together and you around if truly looking to help the significant other.

bad bean

Something else that might be of interest on psi.I'm at 5400 ft in altitude.a site I was just reading say 150 psi at sea level will only be 120 at 6000 ft.what are thoughts on that.

bad bean

Yes I'm looking for that cure all than having to pull motor. Yes my time is short due to needing a heart transplant. But how many of you have looked for outs. God willing I'll be here for some time but a car in pieces doesn't sell to well. If something did happened. My wife would get taken advantage by scums looking to get something for nothing. If pulling motor is so easy come get you some.

dick1172762

Moly rings will seat well before the cam is broke in. That's one reason we use them. What do the other sites say is wrong with the motor? Maybe its time to get an experience engine builder to take a look. Everyone knows a really good dirt/drag racer. Find one and pay him if necessary. It may very well be your cheapest way out. And just remember that two many cooks spoil the pot.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Wittsend

I think what it is, is that he is hopeful that the problem will be something that  doesn't require opening the engine - or is corrective with alternative devices.  Thus there is an attempt to attribute the problem to cam overlap, need of an exhaust evac-system, low quality compression gauges etc..

I can understand that. He stated he has health (heart) issues.  I'd hate to have put an engine together only to have to tear it down shortly afterwards.  On the other hand I agree that it most likely is rings and that will require opening the engine. I see the leak down test that is supposedly coming as the final answer.  If that shows that the compression gauges were accurate then I don't think there is any question.  So, I see a finality coming shortly - one way or the other.

Update - Try running the engine longer and see if the compression comes up.  Even if not to optimal at least a notable increase.  It would support the theory of the rings not yet seated. Maybe it will take more time (though unusual).  I remember once my wife took a pregnancy test and commented that she was SO pregnant that the test stick was completely colored immediately.  I then read the instructions (isn't that a role reversal) and noted that you are not suppose to read the test for 10 minutes.  By that time we were no longer expecting.

bad bean

I'm not denying that there is blow by from rings. And that oil is getting by some seals. Other sites have stated that motors can go many miles before rings seal. I'm not saying many thousands just hundreds of miles. Since motor only has maybe 1hr run time. I know that people on this site say it should happen quickly. With test for leak down will let me know where from. Not sure but some sites say that cylinder pressure of 180 gives you over 12.1 compression.

amc49

You're doing the same thing all over again, asking about overlap (but no mention of how much) but only half-framing the question setup........seems to me some of your grief is self induced by vague questions with no information to frame any possible answer that makes sense, and then answer not liked. You give incompletely, you get back incomplete.

Looking at overlap is looking at the issue backwards, the compression effect is from intake closing point not opening point, just that the two are linked mechanically since cam is not DOHC.

I built a 304 AMC using 8.5/1 pistons and heavy chamber work with biggest hydro stick (IIRC 234I-244E @ .050", .550" lift) I could find and still had 140 psi with maybe true 8/1 compression.

BBC with true adjusted 12.5/1 and huge overlap roller and 300psi.

You are not going to make up for that huge difference with overlap alone. Overlap has nothing to do with the OP blowing out of seals either. That is from leak across the rings, the engine is an air pump and will pump up the crankcase as fast as the cylinder if leaking.

Wittsend

Quote from: dick1172762 on October 01, 2014, 10:33:26 AM
      I don't want to stop reading this post because its like a good story, but we can't turn to the last page to see the outcome. I've learned all kinds of good stuff on here, buts its all coming from other people. Ever possible thing that could be wrong has been talked about over and over and all say to pull it out. Sorry if you don't like that idea but it will happen sooner or later.

That is likely the case, but since he now has access to a leak down tester I think there is one last thing to see here. You know, kind of like the doctor sees the X-Ray, then a CAT Scan, then (and where we are at now) a MRI.

  Stranger things happen. My daily drive (Mazda Protege) was throwing P-300 codes (Multiple Random Misfire).  Couldn't figure out why.  And, it often happened when the A/C was on. I attributed it to the A/C clutch engaging, - and momentarily slowing the engine.  This went on for about 6 months. The car developed a slight tick sound at idle (only). I looked everywhere and could not find the source. Eventually the tick took on every aspect of a rod knock.  Eventually I found the problem.  A loose balancer that was spinning fore/aft on the crank shaft within the key clearance (that was increasing constantly). This was throwing off the Crank Position Sensor  The bolt was "stiff" in the treads and thus felt tight so I assumed the balancer was tight.  So, sometimes disastrous symptoms  (rod knock sound) have simple solutions (tight the balancer bolt).

dick1172762

Quote from: bad bean on September 30, 2014, 06:22:53 PM
Last I checked didn't ask anyone in particular to put there two cents in. If you don't want to answer stop reading. I just needed help not smart @$$. Must be wrong site to seek help.
I don't want to stop reading this post because its like a good story, but we can't turn to the last page to see the outcome. I've learned all kinds of good stuff on here, buts its all coming from other people. Ever possible thing that could be wrong has been talked about over and over and all say to pull it out. Sorry if you don't like that idea but it will happen sooner or later.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

74 PintoWagon

Well good luck, hope it's an easy fix.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

bad bean

Borrowing one from friend he said to do leak down as well.had someone else say same thing in earlier post.didn't have one til now this will let me know where problem is upper or bottom would much rather find problem on top than bottom removing head is nothing compared to doing while motor.

74 PintoWagon

Should do a leak down on it..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

bad bean

Thanks thats all I'm asking. They are rental gauges not a good gauge. But that's all I have for now. Pistons are rated 12.1.I think I'm at 10.5-11 according to sites when I enter specs. How much do you know about over lapping and could that cause low psi.

Reeves1

125 lbs too low for 12:1 comp.

My B2 engine (that was returned ready to blow up - long story) had 10.35:1 pistons & had 170 lbs.

Try another gage. Some oil in each cyl.

As I mentioned, gaskets are cheap. If I were you I'd pull it & do a detailed inspection (after trying another gage).

bad bean

Last I checked didn't ask anyone in particular to put there two cents in. If you don't want to answer stop reading. I just needed help not smart @$$. Must be wrong site to seek help.

dick1172762

Well sooner or later you've got to live with it or pull it out and fix it right. In the old days with chrome rings, we would put bondamy in to the cylinders to seat the rings. Those day are over thank God. Guess you can do like the Brits over across the pond, and drive it till it breaks, and then you know what was wrong with it. Or you could do like we did on dragsters back in the 60's and wrap rags around the breathers to catch the oil. That trick was also good to play mind games with the car in the other lane. That and adding a quart of oil as you staged the dragster. But none of this is going to help you one bit. Pull it out and give us a break please.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

amc49

I get 170-180 psi on 9/1 engines all day long.....................................the rings will seal to show that in five minutes, the last bit takes a bit longer say hour. Drag race motors go to the strip and max power expecting max compression after the 20 minute cam break-in.......................I certainly did it enough.

There is no night vs. day point at which the cylinder is dead but 10 psi higher it's not, the 120ish mentioned is still pretty much dead for an engine like that.

Could be crap gauge, the cheaper ones can be pretty ratty, I learned early on to get a good one and I'm cheap, cheap. It don't work there.

bad bean

Did another check on compression. This time the cylinders were 125 except the number 6 hole was 110 put a drop off oil it then went to 125. Not sure if overlapping of valves or rings making low or is that OK cylinder pressure. Can or will rings seat after running for some time. I know that someone said that it could be the best they will show after few minutes. Now I have  to figure out about leaks.

bad bean

I did state that it was high compression my bad.my mind is rambling so not getting things always correct.like I stated moments ago.looking for advice not ridicule.I want to thank all again for input.hope I get good compression reading so I give good news before I tear it down.

bad bean

Sorry that I didn't give full description.Some people forget the reason people are on this post is to get answers.I'm just looking for advice. Not wanting to year a fresh motor apart. If I'm over looking something.Got another gauge doing test tomorrow. If leaving out anything you need to know to help please ask.

amc49

My bad as well, I get rambunctious over this stuff and have a tendency to say things I shouldn't thus creating problems. I have no desire to actually rip or insult but I sure seem to go there enough. My apologies to all. It just seems that people should think a little more and that certainly includes me. Chalk it up to my lack of patience as I age, not my strong point. Stupid old man we'll say.

Wittsend

".........ru bber glove on pcv, that one's borderline stupid."

I'll take the hit for that one. He had stated that it didn't seem like there was a lot of air coming in /out of the oil filler cap. There seemed to be doubt in his mind that he was able to detect it  I told him to put a rubber glove over the PCV hose as a way of telling (visually) just how fast there the crank case pressure was building - if at all. It wasn't meant to be any kind of a definitive test, just a way of observing that which he was struggling to perceive.

I had tried it once when my Chevy 283 powered Studebaker was showing 150 PSI on the gauge, the valves had both new O-Ring and umbrella seals, the valve stems didn't feel "too loose" and yet it was smoking quite a bit.

amc49

And yet asking how much psi without telling any of that...........(chuckling to self) Major omissions like that are why you are here now.......... Just now finding out about the overbore after I mentioned possible not being bored issues twice. Your lack of attention to detail is death playing with a specialty engine like this, the same lack (and resultant damage) would be likely to be expected on the engine itself. No insult intended again, just the facts ma'am.

Rubber glove on pcv, that one's borderline stupid. As in on the OTHER side of that border.

'I didn't say that compression was 12.1...'

Au contrere mon frere. reply #10 says...

' I'm running high compression about 12.1...'

'they told me I would be fine...'

Oh boy, if I had a buck for every time I've heard THAT one......you ALWAYS doublecheck the work. Say piston-to-wall is too tight and you seize piston to gouge aluminum then that ringset is stuck from metal flow and your blowby. Seen that plenty of times with fresh boring, the incompetence is usually worse with the louder the shop crows about how good they are.

Look here, all the flogging in the world not gonna do a thing until you real world either trip over better compression numbers or make them happen by more work. The motor is dead at those low numbers, 100 psi is the point at which cylinder is considered to be not contributing to power even if it is working. A bang up trick ignition (MSD) might fire it but no power because power comes from gas expansion, ergo, COMPRESSION.

In reference to OP issue you must baffle pre-pcv and I'd look at adding more breather as well.

dick1172762

Also do like they teach you in A&P school. After you run the compression check, shoot some motor oil in the spark plug hole on the low cylinders and recheck the compression again. If the reading goes up its the rings. If there is no change its the valves.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

bad bean

I didn't say that compression was 12.1 I merely stated that trw piston 12.1,60cc heads 210 runners,motor bored .030, they told me I would be fine for Moly rings.no decking needed..015 piston to deck height, gaskets .041 compressed.compression should be about 10.5-11.1.a fire notch was cut in piston for plug clearances.I don't do machine work so I'm relying on them.only thing I noticed was the cross hatching.cylinder felt smooth.