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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

A 1972 turbo swap adventure

Started by 65ShelbyClone, July 20, 2014, 12:39:02 PM

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robertwwithee

I noticed right off as early hoods have ford on the drivers side corner and not in middle.  I bet hardly anybody would pick that out at a car show though. 

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


65ShelbyClone

Quote from: Wittsend on December 05, 2016, 12:34:50 PM
Glad you found so much clearance. I can't imaging you have the engine any lower than mine. With the stock starter it hits the steering rack hold down bolt with the slightest throttle application.


"So much" clearance...that's funny.  ;) There's still hardly any clearance anywhere. I had to cheat the radius on the new upper intake so the flange wouldn't hit the hood. It may still require a torque strap to keep the engine from hitting under acceleration.

Another obstacle is finding room for a front-mount intercooler. The Spearco one I got long ago is going to be tough to fit, so it's looking like a modified TurboCoupe IC might fit on the passenger side without tearing out the stock hood latch and grille support.

QuoteSo, I've searched Pick Your Part for years for a decent white hood (want to keep the original color and patina). I've wanted one as a replacement since I cut the air inlet for the factory intercooler.  Never found one. And yet here you are with a green car and - a white hood. Why does it always work out that way???


Funny you mention that. I still have the original green hood. I got the white one on a parts car and planned to use hood pins and cut it for a bubble/cowl/scoop to clear the intake, but decided not to(it was hard to find!). It's for a '77 anyway and doesn't have the right latch for my '72 hence the hood pins.

QuoteGlad to see the project moving forward even if slowly. Too often they die into obscurity.

Thanks. I figure I'll post updates as long as the car is "project" status which appears to be indefinitely at this rate.  :o


'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend


"It's amazing that the huge flange behind it fits."

I'd say so. With the shorter stock set up I had to file the factory flange to the edge of the bolt holes for clearance (see pic). And in my case that was near the higher center of the hood. In your case you have the throttle body going offset from the engine center and going forward. Both those directions have hood slope that diminish clearance. Glad you found so much clearance. I can't imaging you have the engine any lower than mine. With the stock starter it hits the steering rack hold down bolt with the slightest throttle application.


So, I've searched Pick Your Part for years for a decent white hood (want to keep the original color and patina). I've wanted one as a replacement since I cut the air inlet for the factory intercooler.  Never found one. And yet here you are with a green car and - a white hood. Why does it always work out that way???


Glad to see the project moving forward even if slowly. Too often they die into obscurity.

65ShelbyClone

Small update...





This is the handle of a telescoping magnet used to check hood clearance over the TB inlet. It's amazing that the huge flange behind it fits.






'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

I wanted to post something by October 30th to make it an even month, but have been down with a knarly cold for the last week...my first in several years.  :o Getting better though, so on with the show.

The upper intake is slowly coming together. A die grinder and carbide burr were used to radius the flange holes.



Which produced slivers galore. I was picking them out of my hands for DAYS.


I should have/would have started with aluminum, but the flange was made before I had a TIG welder.

At least now there's this:


There is also a throttle body flange ready for the upper intake now. I opted to use a standard Ford 5.0 pattern for future convenience. The installed TB will be a more compact 65mm one from a 4.6L Mustang which necessitates an adapter plate. Billet again.


If anyone is wondering why I didn't just put both patterns in the steel flange, it's because the 4.6L bolt circle intersects the tubing that the flange will get welded to. I could have taken measures to seal them, but this flange is more versatile and can be used on any old 5.0 HO upper intake.

Turns out that the green blow off valve is a Taiwanese copy of a '90s-era Turbosmart Type II. They are still going for only $16 apiece otd, so I bought two more, one silver and another green. Might get a few other colors later... ;D

The original green one has been modified extensively. The spring force was really high even with the adjuster backed off all the way. Replacement springs in other rates are hard to find and cost prohibitive, so I improvised by making a billet top hat that increases the installed height and thus, lowers the installed force. It will take some fine tuning to get it right for the peak vacuum my engine makes, but at least now that adjustment is possible.







The outlet hols have also been opened up into large slots for less restriction. I might make the ends more rectangular so there isn't an ugly silver/green border on the cuts.

'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

Scraping the edge of the highway is more like it. New rear shocks may be in order....unless Los Angeles County decides to start using road funds to fix the roads.  ::)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend

The "Broomstick." Sweeping the edge of the highway - one mile at a time. :-)

BTW, I'm thinking the "aligned to the body" look would be best with a slight projection beyond the rocker.  Might even paint the last 1/4" or so silver. But it is your car so do as you like.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

65ShelbyClone

'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

65ShelbyClone

This was from Labor Day weekend. I call it my boomstick.






The video was impromptu and not very good, so I'll try for better shots later, maybe this weekend.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

Oops! Forgot that I did some milling on an E6 manifold a few weeks ago. It was minor stuff and I didn't want to Twitterize this thread.







'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

It looks like you're right and I ordered the "wrong" parts from Rock. That said, some quick sleuthing suggests that the master cylinders were the same diameter across all years, so I'm just not going to sweat it. The MII rear end is getting MII brakes. 8)

I'm doing dual 2.25" tips out the side to finish off the exhaust. You all may remember from eons ago that I put the muffler under the middle of the car and kinda stopped there. It's not call-the-cops loud anymore, but interior resonance is bad. Really bad. That resonance is gone when piped all the way out the side.

Poll: should I do staggered straight-cut pipes or slash-cut them to align with the body?





In other news, I pulled the 2.3 out of my '77 parts car.


Only to find this under the #3 exhaust port:


>:(

Incidentally, I had to pull the clutch for the engine stand to fit on the block. Check the date on that disc:


That's "SEP 17 1976", 40 years ago to the day.  :o
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

oldkayaker

That wheel cylinder size did not seem right so I check Rock Auto (handy site).  The 72 sedan rear wheel cylinder was 23/32" while the wagon, 74/80 Pinto, and Mustang II used a 7/8" (look at the cylinder rebuild kits for sizes).  Note Rock Auto is doing a "wholesaler closeout" on the 23/32" stuff so replacement parts will be harder to get in the future.  That 23/32" cylinder was a pain to rebuild too, my 3-stone hone would not fit inside it.  Using the torques listed in the Ford manuals, the bolts used to connect the cylinder to the backing plate are smaller for the 23/32" than the 7/8" cylinder.  So some accommodation may be needed if swapping cylinder sizes without swapping backing plates.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Wittsend

I can confirm that the 6.75" 73 wagon rear drums do not fit a 8".  As mentioned the center hole in the drum is too small.  Not sure about the backing plates but I recall something was different between the Mustang II and the Pinto - might have had to do with the E brake cable???  I'd turn the drum as the later/larger holed drums are probably easier to find. Turning the axle will force the use of replacement drums with smaller holes.

65ShelbyClone

Thanks for the info.  :)

From what I could find, it looks like the 7/8" wheel cylinders were used for all models while the shoes are wider for MIIs and Pinto wagons.  ??? In addition to stock, I also got some 13/16" wheel cylinders (1/16" smaller) to try if the rear bias is too much.

As long as the backing plates interchange, I'll be all set. The center hole is no problem; I can either open up the drum, turn-down the hub pilot on the axles, use the brakes off of the '77 Pinto parts car, or use the brakes that came with the 8". It's good to have options.  8)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

oldkayaker

The hubs on the 71/73 cars are smaller than the 74/80 Pinto's and Mustang II's.  So your 72 drums will not fit over the larger Mustang II hub with out modification.  From vague recall, the wagons and 73 and later sedans had the wider drums with some cooling fins plus a little larger hydraulic brake wheel cylinder, so you will get a little more rear bias.  I put a Mustang II 8" with brakes in my 71 and did not notice the different brake bias but I am not good at sensing such things.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

dick1172762

74/80 brake drums are the same as Mustang II. 71/73 Pinto drums are narrow when compared to the 74/80 Pintos drums.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

65ShelbyClone

Quick question for anyone watching: will the drum brakes from a 6.75" rear fit on a Mustang II 8"?

No problem if they don't; I have just read about the MII brakes being a little wider and affecting the brake bias. If I can avoid playing with proportioning valves and brakes cylinders, so much the better.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

I made a lightweight Delrin replacement for the brass piston in the Chinese $18.50 blow off valve mentioned previously. The Holset turbo I plan on using initially is known for not being the most tolerant of surge or slow blow off valves, so I wanted this one to open as fast as possible. The brass piston is amazingly heavy.




The sealing lip heights aren't the same because it was a non-critical dimension. The spring pocket to sealing edge dims are the same and I had to open up the piston-bore clearance to allow for Delrin's higher expansion rate, so I left the slight extra length.

'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

I don't know why, but I don't always get reply notifications on this thread even though I have it set to instant email.  ???

Haven't done anything to the car since last; just picked up a few more tchotchkes like a new steering rack (in transit) and an amazingly cheap Chinese piston-type blow off valve that is green like my ride  8) . The plan is to replace the heavy brass piston with one machined from Delrin for faster response.

I also polished the burnt bearing journals on the turbine shaft above. It looks like new, but turns out the shaft is bent out of spec making it a pretty paperweight.

Quote from: Wittsend on July 02, 2016, 03:38:43 PM1. Are any turbo wheels clocked with a key?

Not any I've ever heard of. A key would cause balance and strength issues. Freedom of rotation also allows for balancing without grinding on anything; sometimes just rotating the compressor is enough to bring the assembly into spec.

Holset rebuild manuals instruct to permanently mark the wheel and shaft so they can be aligned on reassembly.

Quote2. How are the valves swirl polished. I have a car guy/machinist friend and even he wondered.

I actually don't know how, but the most plausible reasons why seem to be manufacturing and marketing. Titanium valves are never swirl polished and many modern stainless race valves aren't either.

QuoteOK, a third question:

3. Static compression is lowered to compensate for the added volume on a turbo motor such as the case in the T/C engine.  It would seem that much like one measures dynamic compression as it relates to the cam, similar aspects would seem to apply to larger turbos. It would seem that as the turbo got larger and the PSI increased you reach a peak cylinder pressure that you should not exceed. Yet when I hear of Indy type cars with boost over 40 PSI it makes me wonder what (static) compression ratio those cars run???

You're talking about effective compression ratio.

Effective compression takes intake charge density into account. If you stuff two volumes of air into one volume of space, that's a 2:1 compression ratio. Atmospheric pressure is about 14.7psi absolute. 14.7psi of boost on top of that means that two volumes of air are in the cylinder before the piston starts to compress anything. With an 8:1 compression ratio like a 2.3T has, you get 2 x 8 = 16:1 effective compression. That's pretty high for pump gas already and 20:1 is nearing the ragged edge for a 2.3T, but it's nowhere near what methanol can tolerate. That's what Indy engines used to use. Now they use E85 which isn't as forgiving, but is still a lot nicer in that regard than pump gas.

Turbo F1 cars reached as much as 80psi of boost in the 1986 season. The BMWs had 7.5:1 static compression, so ~41.3:1 effective... :o
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend

I always find you posts to be engaging.  Probably because you dare to go where I fear to tread!

Two questions:

1. Are any turbo wheels clocked with a key?  I loosened up my intake wheel to clean behind it, got it loose and realized it spun free on the shaft. As best I could I immediately rotated it back to the approximate area it was and then marked the wheels.  I always wondered about the balance but have been thankful that "close enough" indexing has not displayed any problems - yet. It has been about 2,000 miles without issue. Are they balanced independently and it doesn't matter. The turbo is an '88 IHI.

2. How are the valves swirl polished. I have a car guy/machinist friend and even he wondered.

OK, a third question:

3. Static compression is lowered to compensate for the added volume on a turbo motor such as the case in the T/C engine.  It would seem that much like one measures dynamic compression as it relates to the cam, similar aspects would seem to apply to larger turbos. It would seem that as the turbo got larger and the PSI increased you reach a peak cylinder pressure that you should not exceed. Yet when I hear of Indy type cars with boost over 40 PSI it makes me wonder what (static) compression ratio those cars run???

65ShelbyClone

I think I might have a problem. Really.


This time it's an HE341. The only difference between it an an HE351 is the 56mm compressor and physically smaller housing. This one has a stuck wastegate flapper, but I think the HY35 housing will fit on it.

Speaking of the HY35, it's the reason I have an HE341 now. The HY35's shaft journals are still in spec and they feel smooth, but there is evidence of friction-related heat. Also to my dismay was finding that the turbine had been hitting the housing as well. The turbine wheel can probably be balanced and used, but the HE341 cartridge seems to have life left. I'll know more when the housings come off. Until then, here's some hurt HY35:



QuoteI also have some Ferrea big valves coming in.

And they're purdy.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

After a lot of whittling on a lathe, a 6" round of Delrin became a 4.375" round of Delrin. It was then given to a CNC mill with a toothy beak that did this:


to get here:


So this could be done:


To achieve this:


Now the air filter sits below the hood.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

That's good to know. It looks like the "G" is Holset-ese for a natural gas application. One thing I have noticed about Holsets transplanted onto high-EGT gas engines is that they seem to suffer from the heat a bit. Maybe not enough to fail, but possibly enough to shorten their life.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

82expghost

Hy35g and you have the same turbo watercooled

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

65ShelbyClone

Grabbed a couple cheap rebuilt oval-port 2.3 heads and another E6 turbo manifold this week, all destined for porting.


I also have some Ferrea big valves coming in.

And.....oh no, what have I done?


I needed another turbo like I need a hole in my head, but it was fairly cheap and won't be as difficult to fit in the Pinto as the Borg Warner in my previous posts. This is a Holset HY35W-A with a 56mm compressor and 9cm hot housing that make it good for a spiced-up 2.3T. Unfortunately the bearings and compressor wheel are junk so I'm looking into getting it rebuilt and upgraded to HE351 (60mm) spec. Some people with other twin-cam 16v cars have made upwards of 600bhp on the HE351, but it will work at 250hp-300hp (my initial target) just fine as well.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

bbobcat75

man that turbo look sweet!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

Wittsend

Whatever the stock alternator that came on a '88 T/C is what it is.  The mount on the head is not stock, but very common on 2.3 engines. The self serve yards are full of the import mini alternators.  They seem to cram nicely into tight spaces.  I've included a few pics of one I have on my Tiger. The original generator hung out wide and high. So much so the factory indented the inner fender for it. The pivot point is on the head and the front braces at the water pump with a second, bottom (unseen) bracket off the same bolt being slotted for adjustment.

That turbo should create a nice vacuum in front of the Pinto so as to draw the car quickly forward!  ;D

65ShelbyClone

Is that alternator smaller than a regular one? It looks like it. I had a brainwave today that maybe a compact alternator would work. I have a 3G now and it's pretty big.

I also have a high mount bracket like yours, but am a bit more restricted by plans to run a forward-facing intake and FMIC.

Hear that funky noise?


And there's this in the feasibility study...
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.