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Chilton's Repair & Tune-up Guide 1971-1979 Pinto and Bobcat

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

A 1972 turbo swap adventure

Started by 65ShelbyClone, July 20, 2014, 12:39:02 PM

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Wittsend

Isn't resonance the worse!  I have a 318Valiant and between 1,900-2,600 RPM it seems like an acoustic weapon. At 2,600 RPM it is like someone pulled the plug and it gets quiet. No crossover pipe.  I have 2" off the manifolds dump into a 3" pipe and then an acoustic resonance chamber called a Flowmaster muffler. But hey, it sounds awesome at idle LOL.

It would be an interesting court challenge regarding the passive ear protectors.  The law states (I believe) that it is the wired headphones that are the issue.  And it poses the question then if deaf people should be allowed to drive???  Seems you could argue you are being discriminated against as a hearing capable person. It also brings up the point of jeopardy that to comply with the law you then go deaf and that is worse than using the ear protectors.

OK, I've WAY over thought this and a cop would probably just say, "Fix the D*mn exhaust."  I just have a problem with laws that aren't thought through to their logical end.

65ShelbyClone

I put a 2.5" louvered glasspack and side-facing turndown on the car last night and it cut down the snap and turbine whistle dramatically. It also made the car quieter and better-sounding outside, but made low-frequency interior resonance about 10x worse! Seriously, -30dB earplugs are completely ineffective against it now. A shooter's headset works much better, but that's no solution (and it's probably illegal like headphones). Back to the open downpipe for now. My tentative goal is to have a full and finished 2.5" exhaust system before Christmas.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: Wittsend on November 12, 2014, 07:57:47 PM
I wish there was a universal standard for discussing tires AND rearend ratios. Something like revolutions per distance (say engine revolutions per 100 feet of tread travel distance)?  Because.., as we both know they go hand in hand. Whenever one of them (singular) is compared it becomes apples to oranges.

What I did is determine the percentage difference in rear tire radius and use that as a multiplier. In this case, my 185/70-R13s are 10.5% shorter than the Thunderbird's 225/60-R15s. 1.105 x 3.45 = 3.81. 3.55s are 2.9% steeper than 3.45s, so 3.81 x 1.029 = 3.92.

I did use tire revolutions per mile for determining approximate engine RPM for a given speed.

QuoteWhen I got my 8" it was a 3.00 and I had 215-60-14" tires on the rear. If I got on the boost I didn't notice a significant lack of power. What I did notice was in everyday driving the RPM range was "off" for a given speed.  What I mean is at a normal driving speed one gear was too low and the next too high. It was always missing the "sweet spot" if you will.

Something that 3.00s are going to do to my car is make 5th gear useful in fewer situations, but I think the other gears will be have better spacing at the same time.

Currently I'm looking at 3000/1900rpm in 2nd/3rd at 25mph and an almost identical split at 40mph in 3rd/4th. 3.00s will shift that to 2600 in 2nd and 2600in 3rd.

QuoteBTW, the T/C's came with 3.55 manual or 3.73 Auto - but they had much larger 225-60-16" tires.  And so like I said above it would be nice to have a universal standard to compare all these tire/rear numbers by.  I could do the math and use my own scale, but what does that mean to the rest of the world?

Just to be more specific, '83-86 TCs came with 3.45 gears; '87-88 TC manuals came with 3.55s and '87-88 automatics got 3.73s.

I guess a gearing equivalence ratio isn't something that online calculators address directly. Speedometer gear calculators involve it indirectly, but it's up to the user to apply it.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Wittsend

I wish there was a universal standard for discussing tires AND rearend ratios. Something like revolutions per distance (say engine revolutions per 100 feet of tread travel distance)?  Because.., as we both know they go hand in hand. Whenever one of them (singular) is compared it becomes apples to oranges.

  When I got my 8" it was a 3.00 and I had 215-60-14" tires on the rear. If I got on the boost I didn't notice a significant lack of power. What I did notice was in everyday driving the RPM range was "off" for a given speed.  What I mean is at a normal driving speed one gear was too low and the next too high. It was always missing the "sweet spot" if you will.

I went to 175-70-13" because I got a set of Rallye wheels (and got three, new Sumitumo's off CL for $35 - for all three!). It helped a little, but not enough.  Eventually I got a 3.40 rear and I have been very happy with it. Everyday driving is much better.  I'll be moving up to 205-60-13" if I ever get off my butt and mount them.

I would concur with you that 3.25 would be the ideal ratio (again a tough call given what tire size???). There is a 3.18 - unfortunately in the 6-3/4" rearend.  The 3.40 probably winds out a little (not much, but a little) too much and doesn't take full advantage of the torque when the boost comes on.  Like I said above, I had no acceleration issues with the 3.00, it was just the general driving that was unpleasant.

Unfortunately in the 8" Pinto/Mustang II rear you get 3.00, 3.40 or 3.55.  I even spoke to a rearend Pro (he was the guy snagging all the 8" center sections at Pick Your Part) and he said from the factory the 3.25 was very limited. Aftermarket is the place to get them.  So, it is 3.40 for me and I'll "tune" my final outcome with tire size. THankfully my Sunbeam Tiger and the Pinto share the same bolt pattern. Now if I ever get the Tiger going.... .

BTW, the T/C's came with 3.55 manual or 3.73 Auto - but they had much larger 225-60-16" tires.  And so like I said above it would be nice to have a universal standard to compare all these tire/rear numbers by.  I could do the math and use my own scale, but what does that mean to the rest of the world?

65ShelbyClone

Not really an update so much as an observation.

My car seems a little short-legged with 3.55s. By any other standard they wouldn't and I wondered why, so I crunched the driveline numbers.

3.55s with the much shorter tires on my Pinto are functionally equivalent to putting a 3.94 ratio in the the Thunderbird that the driveline came from.

To match the 'Birds original 3.45s while taking tire height into consideration, it would only need a 3.12 ratio out back if it existed. I was concerned that the 3.00 MII rear end was going to make it a slug, but this is reassuring. 3.25s and a T-Lok might be a good all-around combo in the future.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: Wittsend on November 08, 2014, 10:27:03 PM
Why is it I feel if I came to your house I'd see these graphs framed and hung on the wall. LOL  You are obviously having way too much fun with lines and numbers.

You wouldn't see anything framed until I can get the AFR to stay rock solid through transients.  ;)

QuoteWhat are you running for an exhaust? I had to pinch off the second muffler feed of the stock pipes. Not the best for sure. I even have the CAT still attached. Just a little bend in the pipe got me to a muffler under the rear seat.  And, you're not running an IC are you?  Any plans?

Exhaust? Barely any! I have the stock downpipe and a 45° elbow on the end facing outward by the trans crossmember. It's a little rough on the eardrums. The 'Bird had a generic turbo muffler that I saved, so that is probably what I'll use until a full-length exhaust system gets put on.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend

Why is it I feel if I came to your house I'd see these graphs framed and hung on the wall. LOL  You are obviously having way too much fun with lines and numbers.

What are you running for an exhaust? I had to pinch off the second muffler feed of the stock pipes. Not the best for sure. I even have the CAT still attached. Just a little bend in the pipe got me to a muffler under the rear seat.  And, you're not running an IC are you?  Any plans?

65ShelbyClone

Yeah, Ford adapters are all over the place. Back burner for now though.

I haven't played with the G-Tech yet, but have been doing (much) more testing and tuning. Acceleration enrichment is coming along and the closed-loop idle is fun stuff.

An open downpipe is starting to $uck. The bass notes are so powerful that good earplugs are only marginally effective against a headache. Good exhaust is on the horizon and bad muffled exhaust may be in the immediate future.

On a side note, I want to discuss why "turbo lag" is such a frequently misused term. My car came with the largest T3 of the entire 2.3T lineup, a turbo nearly as large as what GM put on their 3.8L Buick Grand National. This graph (click it for full size) illustrates why genuine turbo lag has been an urban legend for several decades:



Span A is where I went from 27% throttle to just 44% and got 4.5psi of boost in 0.132 second.

Span B is the entire event from tip-in to 15.3psi boost, which is 0.924s. Subtract the non-WOT time above and it took the turbo 0.792s to gain 11psi. Engine speed only increased by ~150rpm so that was all turbo; no help from the engine. 2900rpm is well above the boost threshold for any 2.3T which is why there was hardly any lag at all with this 33+ year-old technology. Mashing the gas below boost threshold and waiting for it to wind up isn't lag, it's a problem of technique.  8)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

Nice wheel, should be able to get a Ford adapter...
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

65ShelbyClone

Sheesh, I didn't even think to take the fan out of the lawsuit avoidance enclosure finger guard.

Oh well. It's staying fairly cool now that the daytime temps are in the 60s, but it gets up pretty high before the thermostat will open. Might have to put a bleeder hole in it even though I made sure it seated past the bypass hole in the housing like it's supposed to.

Anyone remember these?


I bought one about 13 years ago (when they were $140 and the dollar had 300% the buying power!) and still have it. The bad news is that it only does 1/4mi readings, not 1/8. I don't really want to pull my car up to 90+mph yet, so 0-60mph tests may be the only thing I do for now.

Oh yeah, and I'm thinking about installing this:


I think it was supposed to compete with Grant because it has what looks like a Grant-compatible adapter. Too bad it fits a Toyota Landcruiser and not a Ford.  :P
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Wittsend

I run my fan (yes, a pusher) out of a cage. It allows me to run as large a blade as possible (not sure of the size and it is getting chilly tonight). Power comes from the factory relay box. I also enlarged the cradle and use a stock Pinto 20" radiator.  It allows me to maintain the factory hood latch.  Never have a cooling issue.

65ShelbyClone

Well yeah a 16" is better, but:

1.) '71-73 cars have no room between the rad and water pump for a fan. ( I can barely snake a belt between the rad and pulley bolts). This means that a pusher fan is the only option.

2.) The 16" fan I have that could be reconfigured as a pusher was too big to fit on the front of the radiator. It hit the core support and hood latch support.

3.) The nice and thin 16" SPAL fan I have can only be used as a puller.

4.) I already had the 12" and it does fit.

I may end up modifying or ditching the hood latch parts depending on what happens with the hood in order to clear the intake. If I have to use hood pins, then a 16" fan is the obvious choice.

Does this look like fun?


Well, it's NOT. Those spikes and dips on the battery voltage (bottom graph in white) were causing a lot of problems, especially the low voltage dips. This noise is likely coming from the low-z injector circuit and is compounded by having to use PWM current limiting because they're low-z. When people said the MegaSquirt v3.0 board was sensitive to noise, I thought they meant external sources like RFI from non-resistor spark plugs. Well, it's actually internal noise from flawed design.  >:( There are some ways to fix it with jumpers and trace-cutting, but I elected to:

(1.) install a filter capacitor on the injector flyback circuitry. This brought the voltage swings down to a tolerable level, but they still spiked between 11 and 15v. I knew it could be better, so I

(2.) put another filter cap on the bootloader header. Finally, rock-solid voltage readings.  8)

Now that noise is no longer an issue, acceleration enrichment is proving to be a tougher nut to crack even without venturing into the realm of Enhanced Acceleration Enrichment (EAE).
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

How bout one 16" fan should be better than a 12" I would think???.. .. BTW, cool vid sounds good..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

65ShelbyClone

Been running the car a lot and poring over resultant datalogs. I also fixed a noisy and very aggravating voltage problem with the wideband controller. For no obvious reason the AFR would dip almost full rich and the sensor would enter warmup mode. After some thought, I suspected that instantaneous voltage drops were causing it to reset. A 3300μF cap accross the controller's power and ground fixed 99% of that. Now I have to do the same thing for the ECU.

I installed one of those parts-store adjustable fan controllers and an unimpressive 12" electric fan. It keeps the car under 200° most of the time at least. We'll see how inadequate the cooling system is when summer comes back around. I had two 16" fans, but one wouldn't fit and the one that did couldn't be reconfigured as a pusher.



Oh, and video (watch it on YouTube for the full view):
http://youtu.be/mgqdjY86-d0

I just realized that I could be driving around Paso Robles in that video. Scenery looks just like that.

It also still has the stock rear end with 3.55s, so that's where some of the punch comes from. Hopefully it doesn't break before I can get the 8" installed.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

Mine lifts a lot even under moderate throttle.

Just have to know the spring outside diameter, inside diameter, free length, car weight+bias and measure/estimate the compressed length at ride height to arrive at a spring rate. That's all... ::)
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend

I'm experiencing the same with my Turbo/2.3 '73 wagon. Too much weight and too little spring rate. There is a noticeable lift upon strong acceleration.  It would be nice if there was a variable rate spring from another application we could use the springs from.

  Over in my 1960's Studebaker world the hot ticket for front springs is an option, variable rate spring from the rear of mid to late 80's Buick Olds, Pontiac FWD cars. Maybe Pinto's have some unknown, oddball donor spring that might work too.

65ShelbyClone

I had heard that Mustang II springs were an option. Stock ride height is preferable, but a little higher spring rate would be fine. The car has no swaybar yet, so any help in the front end counts.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

dick1172762

All we did for springs was use a 74/80 Pinto spring. They are longer than the 71/73 springs and will need a coil or two removed. The more you cut off the stiffer the spring becomes. I try'd Walsh springs and there was no difference. One of Walsh's crew told me that the spring they sold were for a V-6 Pinto wagon with air.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

65ShelbyClone

With the way it feels, I'd say it's easily capable of a sub-14 quarter mile even on this groggy tune. The video doesn't capture it, but that quick  little 1-2-3-4 jaunt was up to 55mph. :o I can safely flog it a bit with the rich upper map, but the WBO2 is in the stock turbo outlet and I'm trying not to roast the sensor. It already overheated once. :P

Post-swap observation: this car needs stiffer front springs! It sits at least an inch lower in the front now and is very soft and easy to bottom-out.

Here's a parting glamour shot since I probably won't get anything done again until next week.

'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

Sounds like it should haul the mail. 8)
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

65ShelbyClone

Thanks. The car rocks when I try to "wiggle" the tray. 8)

When there's nothing on TV, make your own.
http://youtu.be/dBoJ_gKpYjc

This video doesn't do justice to the turbine whine. No one else's do either, so it may be inherent to recording vs. experiencing.

I fought for a long time trying to figure out why the AFR reading was so unstable no matter what I did to the fuel map. Today I traced it to a noisy ground on the wideband controller. Now it's a lot less fussy to tune. Low-load and transients need the most attention now; boost portion of the map are decent enough to move down the list.

I think this car is going to surprise a few people if I can get a hood to cover that lump in the engine bay.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

65ShelbyClone

Heeey kids, it's time for another update.

Support bracket for battery tray. Done.


Filling that tray with a battery. Done.


Bracket to put TFI coil in original location. Done.


Now I can get back to fiddling with the EFI.

Tomorrow will bring the first attempt at moving the car under its own power.  :o
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

And maybe some "necessity is the mother of invention" thrown in. I'm accustomed to playing with Mustangs where anything and everything you can imagine is available. It's completely the opposite with this car where even stock parts are often hard to find. Even if I wanted the battery in the hatch, there aren't any plastic boxes or universal trays small enough for a group 51R!

Solution: build one.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

Wittsend

I said B-U-I-L-D it not Billet!!! ;D   I love all your custom pieces. I'm sure skills from years of experience and a labor of love.

65ShelbyClone

Wideband connected and billet battery tray almost done.



Next up: coil bracket and e-fan.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

65ShelbyClone

Like a tractor motor should.  ;) Thanks.

It's not quite drivable yet, but probably will be by the weekend. I need to bolt down the battery and coil, install the electric fan, and hook up the wideband O₂ sensor. At that point I can start tuning. Once that is mostly sorted, the details will get finished like tucking wires and making a gauge console to hold everything.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.