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1977 Pinto Cruising Wagon FOR SALE

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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Finally found a Pinto

Started by ricohman, July 12, 2014, 08:02:26 PM

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ricohman

Quote from: Pintopower on August 02, 2016, 03:50:08 PM
The car looks stunning but as you can see I am partial:


I have owned this car since 2004 when I found it in a scrap yard the way you see it here. The only thing i have done was a new cylinder head, wheels and rear spoiler. It has been a perfect car for 11 years never needing any work. The interior is also like new. On its last road trip to Las Vegas from Los Angeles, the car averaged 44mpg and passes CA smog at a PZEV level. I cannot speak more highly of this little guy.
Oh and for some reason this car keeps getting used in movies and commercials. Here is the last finished one:
https://youtu.be/eYi1yAIL_Z4

Now that is pretty cool!

Pintopower

Quote from: ricohman on June 16, 2016, 09:00:15 AM
I've been enjoying the car as it is. And I even took it to a local show and shine. I can't believe how many people want to stop and share their Pinto stories. Seems everyone has a Pinto story.
The little "disposable" car attracted more attention than a new Shelby Mustang parked across from it.

The car looks stunning but as you can see I am partial:


I have owned this car since 2004 when I found it in a scrap yard the way you see it here. The only thing i have done was a new cylinder head, wheels and rear spoiler. It has been a perfect car for 11 years never needing any work. The interior is also like new. On its last road trip to Las Vegas from Los Angeles, the car averaged 44mpg and passes CA smog at a PZEV level. I cannot speak more highly of this little guy.
Oh and for some reason this car keeps getting used in movies and commercials. Here is the last finished one:
https://youtu.be/eYi1yAIL_Z4
I have many Pintos, I like them....
#1. 1979 Wagon V6 Restored
#2. 1977 Wagon V6 Restored
#3. 1980 Sedan I4 Original
#4. 1974 Pangra Wagon I4 Turbo
#5. 1980 Wagon I4 Restored
#6. 1976 Bobcat Squire Hatchback (Restoring)
...Like i said, I like them.
...and I have 4 Fiats.

Reeves1

No need to wait for an Mll.
Motor mounts are not hard to make.

I keep meaning to post up a set of headers for sale as well.
They were on an engine in a car, started , but never on the road.
Was going to have them ceramic coated before selling.......which will make them expensive , and not likely sell ?
Small budget ? I posted the part numbers of exhaust manifolds that work...... someplace ! LOL

Custom headers are super expensive here in Canada.
Nothing to spend 3500.00 or more.

ricohman

Must be sold.
Oh well. I still need to find a V8 Mustang II donor car.

Reeves1

Quote from: ricohman on February 05, 2016, 10:51:02 PM
I am looking for alternatives to cutting up this car for a V8 swap.
This has popped up locally.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/regina/1971-ford-pinto/1136489484?enableSearchNa%3Cspan%20style=
It's a 1.6 4 spd with 36000 miles.
I have swapped a V8 into a 72 before. I was able to use the C4 trans in the 72 2.0. This car would need engine and trans. I doubt it has disc brakes though.
Ideas???

Link wrong ?

ricohman

I've been enjoying the car as it is. And I even took it to a local show and shine. I can't believe how many people want to stop and share their Pinto stories. Seems everyone has a Pinto story.
The little "disposable" car attracted more attention than a new Shelby Mustang parked across from it.

ricohman

I am looking for alternatives to cutting up this car for a V8 swap.
This has popped up locally.
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-classic-cars/regina/1971-ford-pinto/1136489484?enableSearchNa%3Cspan%20style=
It's a 1.6 4 spd with 36000 miles.
I have swapped a V8 into a 72 before. I was able to use the C4 trans in the 72 2.0. This car would need engine and trans. I doubt it has disc brakes though.
Ideas???

ricohman

I went to get the Pinto today. I brought along a wide assortment of tools but didn't need anything. The car made it all the way home without any real trouble. The carb needs cleaning and it will need a tune up but it drives very nice. With only 46000km (28000 miles) I guess it should be a tight car.
I'm not sure what I want to do with it. Maybe I should give it a good cleaning, tune and a repaint and drive it. I haven't seen a Pinto on the road in years and today I was driving one.
Pretty cool.

Reeves1

Was told it was in better shape than it is.
Plus I'm dumb......sometimes !

ricohman

Quote from: Reeves1 on December 21, 2015, 05:33:31 AM
See you are in Sask - I'm in AB.

Read this: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=22522.0
Four pages. I'll never get it going. Too old and will never have enough extra cash.
Car is from Ont.

If interested , maybe we can make a deal ?

If it was an SK car maybe. But going through the out of province inspection is something I do now want to do again anytime soon.
Curious as to why you went to Ontario? There always seems to be a few Pinto's for sale in AB. I think.

Reeves1

See you are in Sask - I'm in AB.

Read this: http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php?topic=22522.0
Four pages. I'll never get it going. Too old and will never have enough extra cash.
Car is from Ont.

If interested , maybe we can make a deal ?

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

ricohman

I hear what you guys are saying. But I live in Saskatchewan and these cars are long gone. You can buy a junker for 500-800, that is if you can find one.
I plan on bringing it home and cleaning it up. Haven't decided on a repaint or not. It has a few "old lady touch ups" meaning yellow spray paint over a couple door dings and a few chips here and there.
I think it would look great if I resprayed it in the original single stage yellow as the interior is so nice.
Anyway, I will run it as it is for the time being when the snow melts as I have a low mile, completely original, all delete 93' 5.0, 5spd notchback fox body to play with.


And it wears this plate.

dga57

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on December 20, 2015, 09:00:15 AM
That is sweet, I would not modify that at all..

I wouldn't either!

Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

That is sweet, I would not modify that at all..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

ricohman

Quote from: pinto_one on December 19, 2015, 08:10:56 PM
Hope your not thinking of hot rodding this one , if your the second owner I would keep it just like the new condition it's in , it almost belongs in a huge glass case 😸

I was thinking of a V8 swap. I know the car is completely unmolested but this is all I could find.
But I am torn about modifying such an original car.

pinto_one

Hope your not thinking of hot rodding this one , if your the second owner I would keep it just like the new condition it's in , it almost belongs in a huge glass case 😸

76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

ricohman

I found one. Finally.
It's a 1979 with a trunk. One owner car with 26700 miles.
It has been in the garage its entire life. No rust and the interior is a time capsule. The seats don't even show any wear. I've never see a Pinto without a cracked dash.
The elderly owner passed away at 99 years and she was single and apparently a retired school teacher who won the car new in a new car lottery. The car was located in a small town in Saskatchewan about an hour from where I live. It has been kept running by the family but has seen very little use in the last 20 years.
Sorry about the low quality pics but its all I have until I get in home next month.
I have many questions about rear end swaps and motors mounts.





dianne

Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

ricohman

They work. I've used them before. They required spacing in the early Pinto. And of course you need to attach them to the unit frame rails.

dianne

Let's make certain V8 frame mounts from a Mustang II work also. The engine mounts cost me a BIG arm and leg to have done.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

ricohman

Well, it isn't very good. Although it runs and drives this poor thing is beat to death. Floors are made out of roads signs and the bondo has been slathered. The seats, glass and trim are good. It would make a good parts car or a beater. I'm going to let the boy sell it and move on. A V8 swap would twist this rusty thing in half.
My search will continue.

ricohman

Quote from: dianne on July 13, 2014, 12:10:43 PM
I've got an extra set of V8 frame mounts if you need them, for what I paid for them. You can get engine mounts and other parts pretty easily, which are basically redone. I redid a roller block for my King Cobra, and used an edlebrock manifold for the engine. Also brought it back with regular pulleys and all. So you'll only need the engine mounts really if you go in this direction and 302 engines are pretty easy to come by, here anyway.

I may take you up on that. Need to access this car first. My 302 had exhaust manifolds from a Ranchero. I had a lot of trouble making these work with the steering shaft. I've read that the Mustang II manifolds and oil pan can make this much easier.
In the old days before th internet we just figured this out as we went along. I used Mustang II mounts and bellhousing for my C4. But I had to space them to make them work.
Then there were the cooling issues....ah the good old days.

dianne

Quote from: ricohman on July 13, 2014, 10:32:24 AM
I swapped a 302 into my 72'. But I've since read that the later Pintos are more suitable for a V8 swap. So I think I may hunt for a V8 Mustang II donor for all the mounts and manifolds.
But I've also read the turbo 2.3 87-88 is a good swap.
But I need to see if this old thing can make the 250 mile drive home today!

I've got an extra set of V8 frame mounts if you need them, for what I paid for them. You can get engine mounts and other parts pretty easily, which are basically redone. I redid a roller block for my King Cobra, and used an edlebrock manifold for the engine. Also brought it back with regular pulleys and all. So you'll only need the engine mounts really if you go in this direction and 302 engines are pretty easy to come by, here anyway.
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

ricohman

I swapped a 302 into my 72'. But I've since read that the later Pintos are more suitable for a V8 swap. So I think I may hunt for a V8 Mustang II donor for all the mounts and manifolds.
But I've also read the turbo 2.3 87-88 is a good swap.
But I need to see if this old thing can make the 250 mile drive home today!

dianne

It looks really nice! I love your car and yeah that's a really decent price. I like the small bumpers myself, but that looks pretty good!

I like that S&W also! I collect firearms as well :)
Vehicles:

- 1972 Plymouth Duster (To be a Pro Street)
- 1973 Ford Pinto wagon (registered ride 195)
- 1976 Mustang II mini-stock
- 1978 Mustang King Cobra II
- 1979 Ford Pinto Runabout
- 1986 Chevy K5 Blazer
- 1997 Suzuki Marauder

FORD: Federal Ownership Respectfully Denied

ricohman

Quote from: Scott Hamilton on July 12, 2014, 08:07:54 PM
Nice! And a really good price....

:D

I'm so far out of the loop I don't know what a good price is. I only paid $700 for my 72' (back in 1982) and it had 45000 miles and zero rust. :)
These cars used to be everywhere but I haven't seen one on the road in many years. :(
I've looked for an early Pinto since 2006 and found nothing local. I'd like to buy in the same province to avoid all the mandated safety inpsections and such. But I guess this will do for now.

Scott Hamilton

Nice! And a really good price....

:D
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

ricohman

After considerable searching I found a Pinto. My son was in the city where it was so I had him look and he bought it. Being he is a teenager and has no real mechanical knowledge I really don't know what I have yet.
But it runs and drives so he has registered it and will drive it home tomorrow.
Its a 1979. I really wanted a 71-73 with a 2.0/trunk but that may be impossible to find.
It appears to have a Bobcat grill and he says other than missing headrests the interior is pretty decent. For some reason it doesn't have one emblem that I can see. But the cell phone pics are poor.
Paid $800