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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2nd try at a Pinto-74 wagon this time

Started by russosborne, July 02, 2014, 05:55:44 PM

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russosborne

Thanks.

I did go back yesterday and properly redid the wiring for the radio. Still no speakers though. I wish at least the dash stereo speaker (two speakers in one) would get here.
I need to replace the turn signal flasher asap. The stock one does not like the leds at all. Found out I need an electronic one. Less than $20 at PepBoys, so that is doable tomorrow.  Would do it today, but NOOOOOO, they just had to close for a holiday. :-)
Found enough good wire left over from the Pinto rewire to do the headlight relays and add a junction block for a power source for the headlights so I will likely get that done early next week. I only have 3 days off, so I am going to be busy, if everything I have ordered shows up on time.
Also found out that the dash led's that I bought off of Ebay zoop. Not even as bright as the stock light bulbs. So I am going to have to buy "good" ones, that may cost about 3-4 times what I paid for the cheap ones (that was $7 for ten).

I had to go to my brother's house yesterday and took the Ranchero. He at least understands that I am really enjoying it and don't need a "perfect" one. But he wasn't that impressed with it either. Oh, well. My cars have always tended to be beaters because that is what I can afford, other than the new cars that I have had (with nice large payments). Shiny paint is nice, but a car that runs like a bat out of hell is more important to me.

Well, guess break is over. Back to work (not on either car though).  :-( 
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

That all makes sense to me!  I've toyed with the idea of replacing the seatbelts in my Pinto with three-point belts.  It would surely be a lot simpler to fasten.  In the summertime, I've actually burned my fingers trying to get the lap and shoulder belts hooked together.  On the other hand, the car is totally stock and in really nice shape so I hate to modify it just for convenience.

Glad to know you are feeling well.  Enjoy it! 

Dwayne
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

The Ranchero is NOT a project! :P
It had better not turn into one, I don't have a good track record with those.

I worked on it some more today. Fixed a couple of things, broke another.
Installed led lights in the dash. One of the lights has a problem still, maybe it is the printed circuit board.
These lights are 15 led bulbs, but they don't seem very bright. But at least I can see the gauges now, and particularly the speedometer. maybe I need to remove the blue lens covers? Or maybe they aren't getting a full 12 volts. That is the main reason I want to do the headlight relays, along with brighter headlights.

I also changed the dash voltage regulator. I now have oil pressure and temp. Looks like the fuel gauge sending unit is bad according to the tests I did per the manual. Ammeter doesn't work, I am just going to replace it with a volt meter. Don't like ammeters to begin with.
If the oil pressure gauge is to be believed, I am getting about 60 psi. I ought to put a mechanical on it just to double check.

I broke the speedometer cable retaining clip apparently while removing it from the instrument cluster.  >:( It never fails.  >:( :( :-[ :'(
So instead of getting speakers I have ordered the cable and the sending unit, and even paid $25 extra for 2 day air. I better not break anything else, I can't afford it.

I have relays for the headlights, but given the above I am going to wait to install those until we have some money, just in case. Cutting into the harness shouldn't be an issue, but since this is a 42 year old car and my daily driver I need to be certain I can keep it on the road.

I got the other 3 point seat belt in. I really like them. These are the same ones I plan on putting into the Pinto. Not too bad at about $60 each. But they do take an extra (total of 4) mounting bolts, so getting the hardware kit is a good idea. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aaf-all98115
I had bought a cheap ( and no good) lap belt from Pepboys, the only thing I used was the mounting kit from it. This one the ends weren't sewn, you had to loop them through a couple of plates. Not something I was comfortable putting my wife in for sure.

I did a lousy job installing the radio. Once it is totally working I need to go back and solder connections and route wires better.  :-[

This is what the Pinto (and the Lemans before that) were supposed to be. Something I could drive and fix as I felt like.  I think being able to drive this is the main reason I am feeling pretty good about life right now. I am actually wanting to take it to a local car show that is held every Saturday night at a Kmart on this side of town. I haven't even wanted to go look at a car show for a long time.

Wishing I could get back to the Pinto, but I need the Ranchero to be as finished as I can afford it to be first. I hope my enthusiasm for working on cars continues when that happens. I honestly haven't even thought about suicide since I got the Ranchero, other than thinking I haven't thought about  it. It being over a week is a record for me since I can't remember when. yeah, the rust, my dad, breaking things is a downer, but nothing taking me back down to where I was before. I do worry about this being temporary, but my wife and I are enjoying it now.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Sorry your Dad wasn't more supportive, but it sounds as if that came as no surprise to you.  That being the case, I wouldn't lose any sleep over his opinion.  Too bad about the Ranchero's floorpan rust, but I'm sure it's fixable.  I say keep following your heart, live your dreams, and move onward!  With a couple of projects to work on, you sound more upbeat than ever! 


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Let's see. Good news first.
I can see again, sort of. I bought some 3X reading glasses at Walmart and I can see this screen pretty clearly now. Plus I can read menus again. Haven't been to work since I got them, I am hoping they help on that computer as well.

Took the Ranchero Sunday to show my dad. On the way home I saw a sky/baby blue Bobcat wagon on the road. Not sure of the year. Had one fender in primer.

Ok, now the bad news.

As I expected, my dad thinks the Ranchero is a POS. He didn't say that, he just said I could make more than it was worth by parting it out, and then he got online and showed me some "nice" Rancheros. Sigh.

And I was putting on a 3 point seat belt so my wife can ride in it, and I found serious floor pan rust. I don't know how I missed that when I looked under it in Parker. I am doing my side tomorrow, now I am expecting more rust.

I got my RetroSound radio installed. But the speaker thing I bought yesterday at Pepboys is bad on the right side. Almost no sound. Of course I did NOT test it before mounting it and removing/cutting the neon rings, so now I can't return it. The left side sounded really good for a $41 dollar speaker set. It is one of those two woofers and two tweeters in a wooden box with a handle things. I am debating trying to find a cheap woofer and tweeter that will fit, or just giving in and cutting the very expensive door panels for speakers. Can you tell I don't want to do that? Problem is that I have reached the spending limit on the Ranchero for now. Wife spent a bit of the money on clothes and Christmas presents. Oh, well. It did come from her ex, so I guess she is entitled to some of it.
This is the speaker thing I bought
http://www.pepboys.com/product/details/9250390/00748/electronics/car_audio/speakers/hardwired
I am seriously tempted to buy another and if only half works then combine the good speakers into one box.  If I do buy another I guarantee I will test it before doing anything else to it.

I guess the plan of attack for tomorrow is to install my 3 point belt, and add relays for the headlights. And hope that the rest of the dash stuff shows up, but I doubt if the speedometer I bought over the weekend will get here in time to do that dash this week. I really just want to take it all apart once and not have to do it several times.  I am worried that the gauge cluster housing is going to be as brittle as the Pinto ones are. Worst thing that can happen is I have to use the tach and gauges I bought for the Pinto. They are all rather cheap, so it wouldn't be a great loss, but something I would rather not have to do. I am really trying to keep the Ranchero essentially stock.

And still no pictures. :-( I worked on it from 7:30 AM til 6pm. Didn't even take a lunch break. I tend not to think about eating when I get into a working on car mode.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Working in a hospital, my holidays are whenever I celebrate them.  Will be working Tuesday through Friday next week but I do at least get paid a little more for working the holiday.  The exact same scenario applies for Christmas.  Will be off Saturday, Sunday, and Monday following both holidays so if we do any celebrating, it will be then.  Glad to hear the Ranchero is doing well.


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on November 20, 2014, 09:34:33 PM
I do have to work Thanksgiving, and not even time and a half.
That's what happens when you work for a 24/7 operation, Thursday is the wife's Friday just another day, of course she's looking forward to it becuse she'll make money, lol...
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Thanks,

I still haven't gotten any pictures.
This is a long work week and I am already wore out.
Hoping to get the stuff I have ordered for it in time to do most of the work next week. Short 3 day week, but I do have to work Thanksgiving, and not even time and a half.

Driving it to work is really fun. :-) Not totally sure, but I think I am getting a bit over 16 mpg. Just based on about how many miles I drive and how much gas I had to put in tonight to fill it.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

Congratulations, Russ!!!


You can't go but so far off-topic; after all, it's a Ford, isn't it?  One of the things I really love about this site is that folks are interested in your projects and interests... Pinto or not.  I'm looking forward to watching your progress on the Pinto, of course, but am also interested in what you're doing with the Ranchero, so keep us updated.  Again, congratulations!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Thanks.
I need to look at it while my wife turns the steering wheel. Should be simple enough to see where it is.
I ordered a shop manual on cd last night.
Looking online at parts I also found that the gauge issue could be the voltage regulator there. I had forgotten that these things have that. If the fuse doesn't fix it then I guess that is next.
going to see if it will pass emissions today.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on November 18, 2014, 01:15:57 AM
Well, I am now the proud owner of a 72 Ranchero. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

$3800. I have put $200 into it already. New battery, cables, and related. I am getting a 100 amp alternator this morning, the 24 hour Autozone didn't have one. The car acted like the battery was low from the beginning, and then at a rest stop on the way home I had to jump it. Good thing I took jumper cables with me. No other problems on the trip home. I don't want to mess with doing this one thing at a time, so while I have the money I am just giving it an all new charging system. Wish I could do that for everything else.

All the gauges and clock are not working, so most likely a fuse issue.

Steering is a tad loose, I need to look into that. I don't remember how the steering is setup on that year.

There is some rust. Doors in the rear lower corners for sure. Quarter panels the corner at the rear of the tires.  Likely there is more. The car had been repainted at some earlier point in it's life, but it was long ago. No signs of any major accidents. Just the dent on the door.

Bumpers are straight, but would need rechromed.

Needs new hood hinge springs, they barely hold that huge hood up.

Has a tow hitch.

I think the headliner was replaced, it is in too good of condition for that old.

got to replace the steering wheel, too hard for my delicate hands. I am going to use the one I was going to use in the Pinto for now. I'll have to see if I can find another one on Ebay.

Horn doesn't work, not sure why.

Plus the already noted ac compressor and windshield wiper motor.

Car runs like a bat out of hell.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

too keep this somewhat on topic, while I was at AZ buying the cables and stuff I saw and bought a gas gauge for the Pinto.

Russ
Congrats on the buy.. Steering box is probably loose, should be a screw and a jam nut on top you can take up the slack there, had to do that with the Falcon..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Well, I am now the proud owner of a 72 Ranchero. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

$3800. I have put $200 into it already. New battery, cables, and related. I am getting a 100 amp alternator this morning, the 24 hour Autozone didn't have one. The car acted like the battery was low from the beginning, and then at a rest stop on the way home I had to jump it. Good thing I took jumper cables with me. No other problems on the trip home. I don't want to mess with doing this one thing at a time, so while I have the money I am just giving it an all new charging system. Wish I could do that for everything else.

All the gauges and clock are not working, so most likely a fuse issue.

Steering is a tad loose, I need to look into that. I don't remember how the steering is setup on that year.

There is some rust. Doors in the rear lower corners for sure. Quarter panels the corner at the rear of the tires.  Likely there is more. The car had been repainted at some earlier point in it's life, but it was long ago. No signs of any major accidents. Just the dent on the door.

Bumpers are straight, but would need rechromed.

Needs new hood hinge springs, they barely hold that huge hood up.

Has a tow hitch.

I think the headliner was replaced, it is in too good of condition for that old.

got to replace the steering wheel, too hard for my delicate hands. I am going to use the one I was going to use in the Pinto for now. I'll have to see if I can find another one on Ebay.

Horn doesn't work, not sure why.

Plus the already noted ac compressor and windshield wiper motor.

Car runs like a bat out of hell.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

too keep this somewhat on topic, while I was at AZ buying the cables and stuff I saw and bought a gas gauge for the Pinto.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Well, at least the wind is gone should be good for traveling, just too dam cold gotta stay in the sun.. >:(
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Nope, he wants me to call him when I get close to Parker and he is going to give me directions.  I did ask.
Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Well, it wasn't out there but with this weather I can see him not putting it out there, don't know where he lives but I'm only 6 miles from where he parked it.. BTW, did he say where he lived???..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Thanks Dwayne.
That is my thinking, I just always second and even third guess myself.

I just called the seller, the car needs an ac compressor and a wiper motor. And the gas gauge doesn't work. All should be fairly easy fixes. Most cars I have looked at online that have ac the ac doesn't work.  He said someone stole the wiper motor. And the gas gauge can only be a couple of things, sender/wires/gauge itself. I actually have an aftermarket on that I had bought for the Pinto before I got the fuel cell I can use if the gauge itself is bad.

The stuff he says is new has been put on after the car came out of storage, so recently. Not 10 years old new. :-)

I am just trying not to stress too much about this, but waiting like this is NOT one of my strong points.

The guy is retired, so I plan on being there around 1pm.  Art, how far are you from there?

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on November 16, 2014, 11:10:07 AM
No prob Russ, he's been parking it in two places and I go right by both places I'm sure it'll be there today, I'll stop and take some pics and look at it better.... BTW, you wouldn't want to out here today the way the wind is blowing, LOL..

thanks, Art. I really would appreciate it.
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

I'm a strong believer in following your heart.  There are very few good, reliable, late-model cars available in the price range you're talking about and, as you noted, repairs on newer cars can be very expensive.  If the Ranchero runs good, it's probably a good choice.  It will give you a bit more utility with it's truck bed, while still having the handling and comfort characteristics of a car.  Personally, if I were in your situation, I'd go for it. 


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

No prob Russ, he's been parking it in two places and I go right by both places I'm sure it'll be there today, I'll stop and take some pics and look at it better.... BTW, you wouldn't want to out here today the way the wind is blowing, LOL..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

I am rambling a bit here.

Am I being stupid wanting to get a Ranchero? the problem is that this is likely a once in a lifetime chance at this point to get another one, at least one that isn't a major project. And after the Pinto I think I am through with major projects. That was supposed to be a drive it and fix it up as I do thing. hahahahahahaha. We all have seen how that turned out.

Not the best fuel mileage for sure.
But darn it that is what I want. However I just don't seem to make the best choices.
On the one hand, getting something like a newer Ranger would seem the smart thing to do. But then you have to worry about things going wrong with it and then having to spend a ton of money to repair it. The Ranchero has a lot less that can go wrong and would be cheaper to repair because I can do it myself.

My wife says it is up to me. She will probably just drive our Subaru, although that is up in the air. I drive close to 40 miles each way to work, so it would be cheaper for me to drive that instead of the Ranchero.

Sorry, I am just so confused right now. And we need to make a purchase in the next week to 10 days. Has to be before Thanksgiving.

Would buying and driving the Ranchero, especially this 72, make me extremely happy? Heck yes! But does happiness override smart? I guess that is the ultimate question.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Thanks.
Art, I hate to put you out like that, but if you have the time I would appreciate a closer look. My main concern is if everything works and if it runs well.  If I had the cash in hand i would be on my way to Parker right now. I got the guys phone number, but I always hate to bother people until I have the cash in hand. This is one time where working the schedule I do is going to hurt. But I will see if he is available tomorrow afternoon.

Dwayne, the F100 is more of a "that would be cool to have" thing, but not practical really. At least that is what I am trying to convince myself. :-) the Ranchero is definitely not only more practical, but is what I really wanted.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

I know your wife has physical problems... it seems to me that the Ranchero would be easier for her to get in and out of.  You also have the advantage here of Art (74PintoWagon) being there to look it over up close and personal.  I generally always assume that the seller rates his car a step above the truth, so it bothers me that the F100 seller says its condition is "fair".  Just my thoughts. 


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

I took a quick look at the Ranchero don't look bad, drivers door is beat in a bit but didn't see any rust but didn't look underneath, didn't open the hood or anything, it says it sat for 10yrs so I'm sure it needs a good service, tires look good. Going into town this afternoon to meet the wife for lunch after she gets off work, I can take a closer look and take some pics if you're interested in it.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Well, this is interesting. Not really related to the Pinto at all though. Although it may end up helping when I need to get larger parts/tools.
My wife is going to have to be helping her ex for probably several weeks. He right now has paid for a rental car for another week. I suggested to her to talk to him about giving us the money to buy her a car so she can get to him. He actually has agreed to give us $5000. I am really wanting to buy a Ranchero. Wife doesn't mind a truck type vehicle. She wants an automatic trans. Our Subaru has a 5 speed manual.

I have found several on Craigslist. Including a 72 that is in Parker. A 72 is the Holy Grail of Rancheros to me. Otherwise it will likely have to be a 78 or 79. There are a couple of older 60's models I wouldn't mind having, but if my wife is going to be driving it it has to have things like power disc brakes and ac. she might be talked into driving the Subaru as her car, but the clutch isn't easy for her to deal with.

It also has to be ready to go, no projects. I told her if it was cheap enough something like tires wouldn't be a big deal. But no none running/not fully drivable projects.

Another option would be an F100. I am trying to keep the thing older than computers, or else I would think about a Ranger. Don't really need or want a full size truck.

I found an interesting F100 on CL. A 1963 that has had a newer 4.6L engine.  http://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/cto/4745889223.html
Looks really interesting, I emailed the guy asking about it.

I also emailed the guy in Parker about the 72, asking what he meant when he calls it a project. http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/4759372895.html
The Ranchero is what I really want, but the 63 F100 would be fun.

We are supposed to get the money on Monday. Wish it could be tomorrow. Going to be really stressed out.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I have gone from the mid 400's to the low 200's. My A1C was off the chart.
Yeah, any significant drop messes up the eyes, and my equilibrium to a certain extent. Gone from being able to see the letters on this screen with no glasses to it all being blurred with or without them.

I ended up doing some more blasting this morning. I looked at the rear of the car and decided my brain wasn't awake enough to make decisions, so I didn't do anything with the fuel cell. I definitely need to get a water separator for the compressor.  Other than that I found that if I didn't pause things went better. I have three more leafs to go. Although I had done some of the others with the drill and a sanding wheel. I am going to need to get some leaf spring clamps.

Funny thing is I have a feeling I am going to end up having to get new springs, but for now I am going to go with these and see what happens.

Even with the cool (for Phoenix) temps, I was soaked in sweat after an hour and a half. You wouldn't think that just basically standing still would do that.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

dga57

I can understand that!  My sister was a very brittle diabetic and the one thing I learned from caring for her was that a relative low could have just as bad an effect as a true low.  When she skipped her insulin (which was most of the time), her blood sugar ran upwards of 800.  Consequently, if it dropped down to around 300, she had the same symptoms other  people experience when their blood sugar bottoms out.  Her death at age 53 was largely due to her refusal to take her diabetes seriously.


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

russosborne

Oh, while I am thinking about it.
Please excuse any typos I may make. I am finally on some new diabetes meds, and my blood sugar count has gone way down. Still nowhere near where it should be, but about half of what it was. Anyway, my eyes aren't working so well, I will need new glasses once I am stable, but for now everything is a bit of a blur.
thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

well, I am doing it for my wife. she is worth it.

I did buy a card table at walmart tonight. That should be plenty strong enough and high enough to blast on. And I took a quick look at the back of the car, I think I may have to change how I was going to make the frame for the fuel cell . I was going to run two pieces from left to right as the main support, but I think I might need to go from front to back instead. Not sure, I need to take a better look. Front to back would eliminate any chance of having it interfere with the leaf springs, which would be good so I don't have to worry about getting them back on right away..

I am going to try to get up early tomorrow and get something done with the Pinto. I'd really like to get the cell mounting stuff done at least. But getting up early is not something I am good at doing.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on November 11, 2014, 01:44:54 PM
Thanks.
With all the other stuff going on I just haven't had the energy  to do anything with the Pinto. Still dealing with wife's ex, he is out of the nursing home and in a hotel. He shouldn't be on his on though, they released him way to early. And his mind isn't all there. Sigh. Now he is saying he isn't moving back east yet, which means we are going to have to be his keepers. Starting to cause some issues. I am not the most patient person around and this is getting really old. He needs a day nurse really to help him with his meds, he can't keep them straight. Don't really know what else to do though. An assisted living place would be the best thing, but I don't think that is an option.
Spent pretty much all day Sunday and Monday dealing with him, had an hour yesterday at home during daylight so that was when I tried the blaster.The rate it went it will take a full 8 hours just to do the leaf springs. Unless it is a technique thing that I can improve.
Russ I gotta commend ya, I would not put up with all that drama, keep the spirit up..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Thanks.
With all the other stuff going on I just haven't had the energy  to do anything with the Pinto. Still dealing with wife's ex, he is out of the nursing home and in a hotel. He shouldn't be on his on though, they released him way to early. And his mind isn't all there. Sigh. Now he is saying he isn't moving back east yet, which means we are going to have to be his keepers. Starting to cause some issues. I am not the most patient person around and this is getting really old. He needs a day nurse really to help him with his meds, he can't keep them straight. Don't really know what else to do though. An assisted living place would be the best thing, but I don't think that is an option.
Spent pretty much all day Sunday and Monday dealing with him, had an hour yesterday at home during daylight so that was when I tried the blaster.The rate it went it will take a full 8 hours just to do the leaf springs. Unless it is a technique thing that I can improve.

I really wanted to get more done on the Pinto these days off, but I am going to have to figure out a way to raise the stuff I need to sand blast off of the ground. If I had an engine hoist that would be perfect, but the prices on those have just gotten too high. One of these days I will need to get one but can't do it right now. I just can't bend over for hours anymore.  I should just give up and take it somewhere to be done I suppose, or else totally give up and just reassemble it as is. I just don't want to start doing that though.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.