Mini Classifieds

Pinto 4-spd transmissions
Date: 06/15/2018 09:15 am
72 Runabout for Sale- Washington

Date: 02/28/2024 02:07 pm
1973 Pinto Wagon

Date: 05/06/2022 05:13 pm
2.3 pinto carb
Date: 08/18/2018 02:07 pm
72 Pinto
Date: 03/07/2019 12:07 pm
Need lower control arms for 1973 pinto
Date: 02/27/2017 10:10 pm
Seeking reveal molding for driver's door for a 1980 Squire Wagon
Date: 11/08/2020 02:10 pm
pinto parts for sale
Date: 07/25/2018 04:51 pm
pinto parts for sale
Date: 07/25/2018 04:51 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,573
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,722
  • Online ever: 1,722 (Today at 02:19:48 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 579
  • Total: 579
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2nd try at a Pinto-74 wagon this time

Started by russosborne, July 02, 2014, 05:55:44 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

65ShelbyClone

I don't remember how it was made. It was saved when I was doing major project research and probably just kept it as an idea for gauges down the line.

'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

russosborne

What year dash is that?
I wish I had the black part that is under the gauges on it, that would make this really simple.
Right now mine is two 3 3/8ths gauges (speedo and tach) with two 2 1/16ths gauges in between and two more along the bottom. Subject to change positioning a little bit. I could run all four smaller ones along the bottom. Just not sure until I start playing with the real gauges.
On the 74 the bottom of the stock piece (my pattern) is angled back. |
                                                                                                    /
I will have to use wedges cut from pipe (most likely pvc) in order for them to be facing straight on. I could make the panel more of a box to avoid that, but I really want it to fit totally in the stock position so it looks as little clunky as possible.

I found the gas gauge and tach I had wanted on ebay last night cheaper than summit/any store so I splurged. Something like $40ish total. SunPro, which is what my other gauges are. They don't make a speedometer so I have another  brand picked out. Analog for now. If things improve financially I'd like to get one of the GPS ones, or at least one of the electronic types. Makes it easier to hook up to the trans.

We just heard from the realtor about the Warren Ohio house. She got an offer that the bank may accept. Yay! The offer is still on the low side, but only $6000 from the appraisal. I just am wondering if my having a VA insured loan makes the bank less willing to take less. I really don't know how that all works.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

65ShelbyClone

I stumbled across this photo in my travels:
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

dga57

We ALL have times like that!  lol


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Don't feel bad, we all do stupid things now and then, lol.. ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

This is how to be smart and stupid at the same time.

I was out with our girls (two dogs) and leaning on the Pinto like normal while I wait for them to do their business. Then it hit me. I can just make a pattern of the dash where the instrument cluster goes, and make a sheet metal piece that fits there with the 6 gauges installed including the tach and speedo. Won't have to cut anything up.  ;D Smart.

So I (being completely stupid here) decide to pull the dash out so I can make the pattern easier since I wasn't having any luck holding the poster board up to the dash.
I get the two screws by the windshield out on the driver's side. The one by the speaker stumps me. Now I get REALLY stupid.  :-[
I go "well, the windshield has to come out eventually to replace the gasket, so.....". By this time it is raining decently here. And it's well after midnight. But I still try to do it. After I cracked the lower passenger corner a little bit I come to my senses and stop. The gasket is really hard in a way that you people from back east will never see. I was having to try to break it apart in chunks. This is our equivalent to your rust. Anything rubber or soft gets ruined easily in the heat and sun. But having been through both, I will gladly take this over rust anyday.

So I try from inside again to get that screw out (with two more on the passenger side to go yet) and can't do it. The gasket is really in the way here, on the first two the gasket came apart close enough to the windshield so I could get to the screws. But from the middle over to the passenger side it didn't. I finally totally give up on this for the night, I was making more noise than I had planned anyway. So I clean up the tools, shut everything down, walk into the house and realize " You IDIOT! You have the instrument cluster and all the dash pieces for it right here."  :-[ So it takes me all of 10 minutes to cut out a pattern on a piece of poster board, and lay out the holes for all 6 gauges with a $2 compass. Back to smart.

The other smart thing I did while being stupid was that I knew the windshield screws would be a pain, so I didn't do the others yet. So the dash is still solid.

Sometimes I am stupid.  :o And then there are times I am REALLY REALLY STUPID!  :-[ :-[ :-[

I didn't even want to really take the dash out right now, although it will need to come out eventually so I can tidy up the wiring I did, and redo some more of it since I am eliminating the instrument cluster. I need it in so I can do the console. Sometimes I tend to focus too much on the "right now" and forget about the plan.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Anyone here near Benson AZ?
Someone just posted a bunch of Ford parts on CL. Including a 9inch rear without differential from a 67 cougar, with 31 spline axles, for $50. If I hadn't just spent all my money I would be road tripping tomorrow for sure.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

This http://www.jegs.com/i/Classic+Dash/197/150-67-50922/10002/-1 is the general idea of what I want to do with the gauges. I couldn't find any dimensions on the overall size of that panel. But maybe I can do something similar if I don't try to reuse the Pinto cluster face. I'll have to check and see. It's a bit hard since I only have 3 of the 4 small gauges, and neither of the larger ones. But maybe I can work around that issue.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Sometimes I think I shouldn't be doing this stuff.  >:(

I took apart one of the leaf springs. It was a royal pain opening up the clamps (3 of them) that go around the leafs. But I got it done without breaking anything. That was the first one. The second one I broke the center bolt trying to get the nut loose.  :'(
By that point I was just about exhausted, a storm was heading this way with lightning, and it was after 8pm. I had to make quite a bit of noise getting the clamps off the first one, so I decided it was time to give up for the night.  :o :(

Been searching online. Looks like there are only universal center bolts. I imagine they will work, but they are definitely not close to the Pinto ones.  :-\

And it seems that the front bushings on these are press off ones. grrr.  >:( >:( >:(
I hate not having a press. I really hate having to wait until I have the money to have them pressed out. That money would be better spent on the new poly bushings.

I spent a little bit  of money tonight. Bought some emery cloth, sanding sponges, paint, and some masonite and 1x2s. The sanding and paint stuff is for the leafs and the rear end.

The masonite and the 1x2 are for a console. I've decided that with the price of the Mustang II consoles I'd be better off just making a custom one. I may run it all the way back to the battery box, I haven't decided yet. But somehow that idea appeals to me. Going to run it all the way up to the bottom of the dash. I have to mount 4 gauges somewhere. I really thought I could put them in place of the stock cluster, but I forgot just how little room there is. Only the aftermarket speedometer and tach will fit there. I don't really want to cut the dash that much, not that I am a purist, obviously, but that I just am afraid I will screw it up. So I am going to see about mounting them just below the radio in the console. Or I may mount them in the radio opening and move the radio into the console. Kind of depends on what radio I end up with. I have found one that I really like, it looks totally stock, but is digital with all the MP3, USB, etc stuff. But it is also pretty costly. So the odds are I will just end up with a used one off of CL. If I do that I would have to cut the dash at the radio location anyway. Have to see what happens.

The other option would be to build a totally custom dash. I did that once when a friend gave me a complete set of SW gauges, with tach and speedometer. It was for my 68 Ranchero. I made it out of wood. It actually turned out pretty good, but then I bought a 69 Mustang and gave up on the Ranchero. I put the steel dash back in before I gave it away. Yes, I have a history of giving cars away. Me idiot. Technically the guy gave me some Mustang pieces, but I was going to give him  the car regardless.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Yeah, I know. Boy do I know. ::)

My problem is that I really want to see this thing going back together, and I am having to fight myself about it. I hate having it all apart. But then I hate having to do something twice.
I can't win. :o

On the other hand, at least the front leaf spring bushings seem to be affordable for me in a week or so. Not having a lot of luck with the shackle bushings yet. Still looking for those, I really want poly. These are the front leaf ones, they say Pinto so they hopefully work without a problem. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Chrysler-Pinto-Leaf-Spring-Bushings,7206.html

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

65ShelbyClone

That's why I'm months behind on my own project. Cutting corners to save time and/or money always costs me twice as much of both in the long run, so I don't do it.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

russosborne

Thanks.

Yeah, I am wanting to do that. I just don't really know what I am doing with those. Never taken any apart before. I imagine it is less complicated than I am making it out to be. I just always have this fear that I will take something apart and not be able to put it back together.

I'd really like to get new bushings for them too. I'll have to try and see where to get them and how much they are. I haven't tried to find them yet.

Honestly I probably won't get the rear installed this weekend, I want to, but I also would rather only do it once so I should just wait until I get everything ready.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

jburt

Now would be a good time to disassemble the leaf springs to de-burr any wear, clean the rust, and basically freshen them up.
I color outside the lines...
74 Squire Wagon - needs a lot of work.

russosborne

As far as the engine, I try to tell myself the exhaust and bellhousing were easily worth that alone. but I still don't want to sell somebody garbage.

Re the tag, I'll have to look. I got it out of the Subaru by myself, (a major victory, I've gotten some of my old strength back apparently, I was able to lift it up and set it down without doing it or me any damage) and on a pair of dollies and parked it under the front of the Pinto and haven't looked at it since.
I'm kind of doubting if it does, there are a lot of the pumpkin to housing nuts missing from what I remember seeing. Not sure why.

Update-Nope, no tag. Only has two nuts on it as well, about 10 and 2 o'clock. Guess that will just make it easier on me later on. I need to at least pull the axles, have them redrilled (it looks like), and definitely have the axle bearings replaced. I had a 68 Ranchero that I lost 2 wheels/axles  (on 2 different rears) from the bearing disintegrating while driving. Doing around 60mph each time and just after a highway speed curve. Never again. the first time was funny seeing the tire and axle pass me, the second time I had my first wife in the car with me and was NOT funny.
Plus I will want to check out the pumpkin, and if I have the money change to something like 3.90 or 4.11 gears.
But for right now, the plan is to paint it up and get it back under the rear of the car.

Oh, my leaf springs are apparently not broken, if what I have been told is true. I haven't taken the center bolt out, but have removed them from the stock axle/ubolts and nothing looks broken. I might still take them all the way apart just to make sure. I guess it can't hurt anything?

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

65ShelbyClone

Even if you did, it's worth $80 as a core.

Does the 8" still have a tag on it?
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

russosborne

Well, I am really committed now. Just sold the 2.3l and parts. A whole $80, but it is hard (at least for me) to ask for top dollar for something that I haven't seen run. I'd rather get some money now instead of holding on to it for maybe a few bucks more at some later unknown time.
The buyer is putting it into a 1930 Ford four door. I hope I didn't just sell him a paperweight.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

I still think stuff is going to involve cutting and prying due to my experiences with Ohio cars. Even daily drivers are rust buckets there. Replacing shocks on one car took me several hours, just for the two rear shocks. Course I didn't have power tools for the most part. But it involved lots of cutting and swearing.

I have the 8inch rear at home now. Pictures later.
The seller has a Pinto he is making into a drag car, but he didn't seem like he wanted to talk and I forgot to mention this group to him. He also has an 8inch Maverick rear end, but he wants more for it and I don't want to deal with the perch issue so I didn't try to get it. Bolt in works best for me. I'll deal with converting to 5lugs instead of cutting/welding.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on September 05, 2014, 04:03:12 AM
But one major improvement is NO RUST!  ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) That makes life so much better;D

Russ
Got that right, I can't deal with that stuff.. :(
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Now this is just scary.  :o

I was looking at how to remove the dash(hey, why not at this point? As long as I can do it without removing the windshield.) and came across my old 79 Project posts. I had totally forgot about a lot of what I was doing/planning on doing with that car. And a whole lot of it I am doing/planning on doing with this one. Even the battery box! And I still need to learn to weld.  :-[

Although I will NOT be trying to put a 4.6 engine into this. This time I'll stick with a nice simple (ha!) 302 swap.
And no Mustang II tail lights. Honestly, they were too big for the Pinto.  Being a wagon I am having a hard time finding any custom options for those.

But one major improvement is NO RUST!  ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) That makes life so much better.  ;D

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

russosborne

Wish I could find someone who wanted that tank that could get it. I'd let it go really cheap. Seems a big waste to scrap it but that is probably what I will end up doing to it.  :( I just don't have room to store stuff I won't use. Heck, I don't have room to store stuff I will use. :-[

If I get paid for everything, I have sold $135 of parts, so I am not into the rear end for much. Engine is sold local, a couple of other things are from here and I will ship them tomorrow. Guy is supposed to get the engine tomorrow afternoon. If he backs out I my be sleeping in the Pinto. My wife keeps saying "couldn't you have waited until after you get all the money before buying that other part?". Of course the answer is no.  ::) She has been to JoAnns twice this week, and wanted to go again tonight. I said not until I get the $80 from the engine. One of us has to be the adult, this week is her turn.  ;D
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: russosborne on September 04, 2014, 08:18:49 PM
Yeah, we need more of her craft junk.  ;D I don't have room to build a model if I wanted to. You need my gas tank(you should have a spare) and my wife wants more c r a p. Maybe we can work out a trade. ;D
Sorry don't need a gas tank got a new one on the car, but all this crap here would probably do more good at your place, lol.. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Yeah, we need more of her craft junk.  ;D I don't have room to build a model if I wanted to. You need my gas tank(you should have a spare) and my wife wants more c r a p. Maybe we can work out a trade. ;D

I'm sitting here not too happy right now. I hurried home from Tempe so I could change and be at the guy's house at 6 to buy the rear and I can't get ahold of him, and he didn't give me his address yet so I can't just go there and see what's up.  >:( My luck, the guy sounds older and something has happened to him.

When I have money in my pocket to buy something I really want to get it done.

Update: the idiot was watching a football game and had his phone off.He forgot about making money.  So now I have to go there tomorrow at noon. If I had any other options I would tell him to forget about me buying it.
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Russ, your wife needs to hook up with mine, she has a ton of stuff that she's getting rid of from when she had her store in Mesa, she finally figured out that she'd never have time to mess with it, wish she would have figured that out before we moved I wouldn't have had to haul the junk, LOL.. ::) ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Yeah, it really does.
Especially when I wasn't expecting the prices to have jumped the way they have. Even doing the Lemans things didn't seem that bad, but then I pretty much quit spending on it after my heart attack in Dec 2012, so it has been a bit. My last purchase for it was actually a Ford 9 inch rear converted for the Lemans/Chevelle with 3.92 or .93 gears with a mini spool for $500 just around the heart attack time. That car was going to be really fun. :-(

As far as my wife, she already thinks if I spend $20, she automatically gets to spend that same amount. I have to remind her in this case that I sold stuff to spend money, so she doesn't get to spend all $150, just part of it. She has actually sold some of her stuff thru Facebook, and she is trying to get a store set up on Etsy (spelling?).

OOPS. Time to get running for the interview.

Thanks,
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

65ShelbyClone

I hate to say it, but $150 for a drum-to-drum Pinto 8in is not a bad price in this inflated market. The MII 8in I got was $100 OTD on the junkyard's 50% off sale. Add a few hours of pulling it out, $20+ in gas, new seals, oil, and an inch-pound torque wrench I had to get in order to reset the pinion preload.

It adds up so fast...
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

74 PintoWagon

Just tell the wife she can buy a couple more pieces of Craft junk and she'll forget all about the $50,lol.. ;D ;D
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

russosborne

Thanks.
I'll let you know about the frame mounts. I'm pretty sure I won't need them. The engine is supposedly sold. It had better be after what I just did. :-[ ;D

I've been thinking all evening about rear ends. I just sent an email to the local guy with the Pinto 8 inch for $150 saying I'd take it. It doesn't look like I can find another killer deal for any 8 inch rear these days. The only one I am seeing locally for a 67-70 Mustang the guy wants $150 for the bare housing. Another $150 just for a pair of 28 spline axles. This is a Mustang guy in Tempe here. I am surprised he isn't selling the spring mounts separately the way he sells stuff. Or at least tries to sell stuff, I don't see much change in his postings over the last few months.  :P
So I am better off buying this one that is complete for that, even though it is going to hurt the finances a bit. I'll clean it up and do a quick paint job on it and get it back under the car asap, that way it still looks like a car. I'll have to save up to convert it to a 5lug pattern though. Maybe I should just keep the 4 lug, but I really wanted to do the Granada disk swap from Speedway Motors. I don't think they offer that in a 4 lug, but maybe they do. The other issue is rims. Having the 5 lug makes it easier to find used ones, but I have seen ones I want in a 4 lug being sold here on CL. Lots of Foxbodies running around Phoenix. I almost was tempted to buy one as a project, but for me  Mustangs are really only 64.5 to 73.

Great, I am rambling. Sorry. :-[ I am trying to avoid thinking of how I am going to tell my wife about this purchase.  ::) I did have permission to spend the $100 I am getting from selling a couple of things, but the extra $50 is going to be difficult to explain.

Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: russosborne on August 29, 2014, 12:54:04 AM
I need to quit thinking. I am seriously thinking about going the 302 route. Mainly because I can't seem to get a good grip on the 2.3 I have. For some reason I just have to know all about it and I can't seem to find out what I need to know. I ask questions in the other areas here and pretty much get nothing that helps.

Although a little late now, there's not that much to know about 2.3s. Yours was obviously an early oval port head with a carb intake for  '81-89ish d-port heads. If you decide to part with the 2.3 block and/or frame brackets, send me a PM. ;) I have a set for my car, but want another pair I can use at my leisure to build some jigs with.

Quote from: russosborne on August 29, 2014, 10:08:44 PM
I just can't believe how bad the prices have gotten on this stuff. >:( I bought a complete 8 inch from a 67 Mustang back in Ohio about 5 years ago for $20 (yes, TWENTY)from a friend of a friend on the Mustang forum. Was for the 79 Pinto.
Now, at least here, people are asking $150 and up for a bare 8inch Mustang housing.  >:( And I mean BARE. 9inch rears add about $100 for the bare housing. I have tried asking on the Mustang forum, but even there things have changed. Maybe it is here in AZ. I really don't know. Oh, well.  :-\ :( >:(

It's a problem everywhere.

Quote from: russosborne on August 31, 2014, 11:35:36 PMI never imagined doing all this when I bought this car.

I feel the same way about mine.

Quote from: russosborne on September 03, 2014, 10:05:18 PM
Although the only job offer I have gotten so far has been one that they have not interviewed or even met me.

Those are strange ones for sure.

'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.