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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Drive line vibration damper question

Started by jburt, May 08, 2014, 07:33:29 PM

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65ShelbyClone

As best I can tell, the major block changes, at least for the Ranger, occurred for the '95 model year. Smaller mains, no fuel pump provision, and the head got a different intakes and ports.

On a related off-topic note, what thread size are the bellhousing bolts? My guess is M10 or M12, but I'd like to have them in hand before I have to hang something on an engine stand.

The stepped dowels would be dead easy to make on a lathe....and I have free access to one.  ;D
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

jburt

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on May 20, 2014, 04:40:34 PM

As you can tell we have no idea how to stay on topic LOL

Not a problem for me. I got my orig question answered and even more info I will eventually use.
Great job... Don't stop now.
I color outside the lines...
74 Squire Wagon - needs a lot of work.

amc49

Looking at a Ford 1980 powertrain service manual today shows both the C3 and C4 listed with Pinto/Bobcat 2.3 C4 service procedures specifically mentioned in that section. Apparently C4 still an option that late.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: jburt on May 20, 2014, 03:54:52 PM
Thanks everyone for the information and discussion. It is more than I anticipated and valuable to me.

As you can tell we have no idea how to stay on topic LOL
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jburt

Thanks everyone for the information and discussion. It is more than I anticipated and valuable to me.
I color outside the lines...
74 Squire Wagon - needs a lot of work.

Pinto5.0

Yeah, I have several early blocks drilled for both bells. I'll have to look again but I don't remember any of my turbo blocks being drilled for the 2.0 bell.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

oldkayaker

The 2.0 engines and bellhousings (both manual and auto) use hollow locating dowels that measure about 0.5" in diameter.  The 2.3 engines and bellhousings (both manual and auto) use hollow locating dowels that measure about 0.6" in diameter.  So when using a 2.0 bellhousing on a 2.3 engine, a stepped hollow locating dowel can be used to allow it sit flush and aligned.  As an alternative, the 2.0 bellhousing locating dowel hole could be bored out to the 2.3's larger size but the machining needs to be precise for alignment.

On the two sets of 2.3 block upper mounting holes, I suspect we are not thinking of the same thing.  To rephrase, the early 2.3 blocks (70's & 80's) have 8 holes drilled and tapped for bolting down the bellhousings but only six of the holes are used.  The extra 2 holes are at the top of the block, see photos.  The early auto bellhousings use the lower of the 2 upper holes.  The late autos (~90's) and manuals ( early and late) use the upper of the 2 upper mounting holes.  This is the same for both NA and turbo blocks.  The above is based on the parts that I have.  I have the following early 2.3 blocks that have the two sets of upper holes (8 total holes): 79NA, 86T, 87T, 88T, and 89NA.  I have the following late 2.3 blocks with just the upper of the two set of upper holes (6 total holes): 93NA, 95NA, and 98NA.  Hope this did not confuse it further.

On a side note, the 2.0 bellhousings (both auto and manual) would use the lower of the two sets of upper holes on the 2.3 blocks.

Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Pinto5.0

Quote from: oldkayaker on May 19, 2014, 06:33:01 AM
Just a clarification to muddy up the waters. :)

The C3 was the most common auto used in the 2.3 Pinto's but a few came with the C4's.  Checked RockAuto and both the C3 and C4 are listed for the 1975 to 1980 Pinto 2.3's.  According to RockAuto, the 1974 Pinto 2.3 auto was the C4 only and no C3 which varies from the above posted id tag evidence, more mud.  A few years ago a person on craigslist was selling a 1979 Pinto engine with an auto and the photo was of a C4 (just an evidence point).

Bellhousings use 6 holes.  The 2.3 blocks up to about 1994 had two sets of upper mounting holes making a total of 8 mounting holes.  Of the 2.3's two sets of upper mounting holes, the auto used the lower two while the manual used the upper two.  The hollow locating dowels on the 2.0 block are smaller than the 2.3 block making the need for step dowels to use a 2.0 bellhousing on the 2.3 block without machining the 2.0 bellhousing.  The 2.3 C4 bellhousing holes match the 2.3 block standard straight larger dowels, so no step dowels needed.  If using a 2.0 bellhousing on a 2.3 block, the step dowels are easiest way to go.  A fellow over on TuboFord.org sells custom made step dowels (I believe they are not a Ford product).
http://forum.turboford.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=014626

I've always assumed the stepped dowels were for all the early C4 bells, not just the 2.0 version. I've never done the swap to know for sure.

Is it N/A 2.3's that are double drilled for both bells? My 83, 85, 86 & 87 turbo blocks are only drilled for the later 2.3 bellhousing.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: oldkayaker on May 19, 2014, 01:57:20 PM
Anyway people probably need to look to see what they have.
That's what I always do..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

oldkayaker

74 PintoWagon you are correct on the 1974, I was just looking at flex plates on RockAuto.  I just checked O'Reilly and they list both C3 and C4 flex plates for 74 thru 79 Pinto's (the 1980 listing was unclear).  Maybe these part store listings are not the best resource for determining what originally came in what.  Anyway people probably need to look to see what they have.  In addition to the factory shuffling parts, past owners tend to use whatever is available to keep their cars running.
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

Pinturbo75

but the c4 was available in the later 79=80 pintos and the door tag code for c4 is a w
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: oldkayaker on May 19, 2014, 06:33:01 AM
According to RockAuto, the 1974 Pinto 2.3 auto was the C4 only and no C3 which varies from the above posted id tag evidence, more mud. 
RockAuto shows a pan gasket for both C-3 and C-4 for 74..

Just took another look, if you look at the C-4 applications Pinto isn't on the list only the C-3 74-80..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

oldkayaker

Just a clarification to muddy up the waters. :)

The C3 was the most common auto used in the 2.3 Pinto's but a few came with the C4's.  Checked RockAuto and both the C3 and C4 are listed for the 1975 to 1980 Pinto 2.3's.  According to RockAuto, the 1974 Pinto 2.3 auto was the C4 only and no C3 which varies from the above posted id tag evidence, more mud.  A few years ago a person on craigslist was selling a 1979 Pinto engine with an auto and the photo was of a C4 (just an evidence point).

Bellhousings use 6 holes.  The 2.3 blocks up to about 1994 had two sets of upper mounting holes making a total of 8 mounting holes.  Of the 2.3's two sets of upper mounting holes, the auto used the lower two while the manual used the upper two.  The hollow locating dowels on the 2.0 block are smaller than the 2.3 block making the need for step dowels to use a 2.0 bellhousing on the 2.3 block without machining the 2.0 bellhousing.  The 2.3 C4 bellhousing holes match the 2.3 block standard straight larger dowels, so no step dowels needed.  If using a 2.0 bellhousing on a 2.3 block, the step dowels are easiest way to go.  A fellow over on TuboFord.org sells custom made step dowels (I believe they are not a Ford product).
http://forum.turboford.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=014626
Jerry J - Jupiter, Florida

amc49

None of this is surprising, nobody but nobody simply stops using one part and goes to the other at year end and Ford is the worst about dilly-dallying around with leftover truckloads of parts. I used to love the mid-year main wiring harness changes they used to make that you could not find replacement harnesses for. I have a '98 Contour that to this day I have not found a TPS sensor for, a very rare one used. Luckily I was able to mod it slightly to use another type that almost fit.


Pinto5.0

Quote from: jeremysdad on May 18, 2014, 09:29:22 PM
So, Ford has a set of 2.0 to 2.3 stepped dowels that they're not telling about?

2.0=C4

2.3=C3

In 74. Cut and dried.

The 2.0 C4 bell wont bolt to the top 2 holes on later 2.3's so the 74 C4 bell is needed because it has the upper mounting holes. The stepped dowels are because the block holes for the dowels are a different size than later versions so you need a dowel with both sizes on it. One end to the block & the other to fit the bell.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jeremysdad

So, Ford has a set of 2.0 to 2.3 stepped dowels that they're not telling about?

2.0=C4

2.3=C3

In 74. Cut and dried.

Pinto5.0

My guess is the late build 74 cars got the C-3 after the last C-4's were installed since Ford was making the C-3 the automatic of choice for the 75 run.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jeremysdad

Thanks for helping to keep the flame alive! :)

Pinturbo75

75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jburt

Quote from: Pinturbo75 on May 18, 2014, 08:52:12 AM
you wouldn't be willing to post a pic of the door tag would you?? I haven't run across this before and ive been over tons of pintos....

I'm more a Chevy and older Ford guy but I've learned there is always something new to discover.
A birth date of March 74 would be pretty far into the model year to be a holdover.
Here's my door tag:

I color outside the lines...
74 Squire Wagon - needs a lot of work.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: Pinturbo75 on May 18, 2014, 08:52:12 AM
you wouldn't be willing to post a pic of the door tag would you?? I haven't run across this before and ive been over tons of pintos....

Here ya go.... Oh btw, when I bought the pan gasket the guy got the part number out of a catalog, said 74 with C-3....

O'Reilly's offer a pan gasket for the C-3 and C-4 for 74.

http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Transmission+Parts/C0073/C0338.oap?year=1974&make=Ford&model=Pinto&vi=1135156&cat=AT+Oil+Pan+Gasket

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_C3_transmission


Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinturbo75

you wouldn't be willing to post a pic of the door tag would you?? I haven't run across this before and ive been over tons of pintos....
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinturbo75

75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

74 PintoWagon

Well, don't know about the Mustang but my Pinto is a 74 all original unmolested and it has a C-3, code on the plate says C-3 and I replaced the pan gasket and it has 13 bolts, but I guess I don't have a C-3.. ::)
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinturbo75

I don't need to research..... its been talked and hashed out before you newer guys were on here..... the reason it was talked about so much is the 2.3 turbo guys look specifically for the c4 bell from this year so we don't have to get step dowels for the bell.... its a direct bolt on without modification....the earlier c4 bells require step dowels to bolt up right...you guys can continue to deny fact ....im just tryin to get you straight....

and by the way.... your m2 may have had a c3 in it but it did not come from the factory with it.... here is a spec sheet on the 74 mustang 2....

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/1974/856055/ford_mustang_ii_3-door_22__2_3l_cruise-o-matic.html
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

amc49

Funny, the heavier '74 M II came with C3, I had one, the trans now is in the Pinto.

Parts store catalogs or computers really mean nothing, I found one year errors by the hundreds, the later electronic ones are no better. When someone insisted on something like this commonly a quick look at the year before or after their known year would produce the part but sometimes it got deeper than that. Some parts lines are out to lunch when it comes to correct #s. Even more amazing is all the crossovers a part can have yet they don't list them. Seems like the manufacturer would at least research all vehicles his part fits to get maximum sales.

Midyear changes are the worst, many not listed at all.

The parts books for Focus through the years produced lots of incorrect parts, nobody but nobody can keep all the motors straight there. Common for MTX parts to be listed as fitting ATX as well. Contour/Mystique and all the different incarnations of early zetecs out there? Give it up, you'll be researching for a while..........

jeremysdad

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on May 09, 2014, 09:21:48 PM
Right, but I thought the 2.0 was dropped in 74 for the 2.3 and he's got a 2.3???..

They dropped the 1.6 in the 74 model year for the 2.3, it was the last year the 2.0 was offered.

Pinturbo75

ill tell you what.... go to any parts store you want and pull up a 1974 pinto with auto trans and if you find any listing anything other than a c4 ill donate any 20 bucks to the site.....74  is c4 only.....

how many pan bolts are on the tranny pan....should be 11
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,