Mini Classifieds

1979 hatch needed
Date: 05/13/2018 08:52 pm
Steering Wheel Needed for 1972 Pinto
Date: 08/08/2018 12:26 pm
NEED 77/78 MUSTANG II Left Motor Mount
Date: 04/15/2017 05:14 pm
Looking for a 1977 Ford Pinto Runabout Hatchback
Date: 10/15/2017 10:03 am
Wiring diagram Ignition switch 72 2.0 4 speed pinto wagon
Date: 12/31/2017 11:14 pm
hubcaps

Date: 05/13/2021 05:33 pm
1978 pinto grill
Date: 07/24/2018 02:18 pm
Hoard of Pinto parts
Date: 12/17/2016 04:14 pm
Needed:73 Pinto center console/change tray
Date: 12/09/2018 11:35 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,577
  • Total Topics: 16,269
  • Online today: 1,090
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 940
  • Total: 940
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Flex steering boots - solid with U-joints

Started by Reeves1, April 23, 2014, 07:59:27 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dick1172762

Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

fozzy

Quote from: dick1172762 on March 18, 2015, 04:44:10 PM
I may have missed this, but why not a 74/80 steering column?

That may be an option, I was just working with what I had and what I know rather than the unknown.

A couple questions:
What spline size is the 74-80 steering rack? Does anyone have pics of the later steering column as installed?

dick1172762

I may have missed this, but why not a 74/80 steering column?
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

fozzy

Good eye! I've lost so much blood over the years wrenching that I often don't even notice, lots of scars on these hands. Coming up to 30 years in mechanical trades, first 15 years mostly doing transmission work and now fix submarines for a living.

The way you describe would work for sure. I'm trying to avoid any welded parts, not that I doubt my welding at all.

Reeves1

I see you work on cars like I do...... drop of blood on the floor in the second picture ? LOL !

Look at the close up picture I posted, with the tip of a screw driver pointing at the area above the second crimp.
My plan is to cut it there. If any cable is still in the shaft, it will be easy to remove.
Plan then was to pick up some solid rod & insert into the shaft. Weld there. Plus drill a couple holes farther up & weld to the bar.
Length of bar sticking out depends on angles to match up to the rack / U-joints after that.

Looks easy in my head  ;D

fozzy

So I pulled the column out of my other '71 this afternoon and had a look at it. The lower section of the column just pulls out exposing a DD shaft. The shaft is hollow as you figured Reeves, you just didn't cut it up high enough to get past the end of the cable. Converting this to U joints should be pretty straight forward.






Reeves1

I have two sets of U-Joints.
Just not working on the other cars.
Yet.

fozzy

Quote from: Reeves1 on March 16, 2015, 07:57:13 PM
Left the white car stock.
One day will work on the Ugly Yellow one to see what I can fab.

Thanks for the reply. If I get mine sorted out with U joints I'll post up pictures..

Reeves1

Left the white car stock.
One day will work on the Ugly Yellow one to see what I can fab.

fozzy

Quote from: Reeves1 on May 06, 2014, 10:25:19 AM
It's bluddy well snowing again today......more shop time.

I cut a spare steering shaft at the place the screw driver is pointed at.
For whatever reason, I thought there would be rubber inside it.
I had asked others what was inside & at that time no one knew.

No rubber inside it. Shaft above is hollow & measures inside the shaft .773

All metal - made much the same as cable.

I put wrenches on the cut off section on the crimps. Yes, you can easily twist it.
Would it flex under driving conditions ?
Maybe.
Would it fail over time ?
Very much doubt it. It would have to be seriously rusty to do so.

Would u-joints be better ?
Not sure on that one.




Did you end up replacing the cable on your cars with U joints then? I wonder how far into the shaft the cable goes past where you cut it off?

I've got my engine out for a refresh/ cam and intake swap (ready to go back in now) so now would be the perfect time to change the column to U joints and a solid shaft. I don't recall the article # but I have read in the NHRA rule book "no cable steering", have to look that up this afternoon again.

My NHRA rule book is old (2008) but I'm sure the same rule applies, section 4, general rules, 3:3 Steering "Only conventional automotive steering systems are permitted; flexible steering shafts prohibited."
 

jeremysdad

Quote from: Reeves1 on May 06, 2014, 10:25:19 AM
It's bluddy well snowing again today......more shop time.

I cut a spare steering shaft at the place the screw driver is pointed at.
For whatever reason, I thought there would be rubber inside it.
I had asked others what was inside & at that time no one knew.

No rubber inside it. Shaft above is hollow & measures inside the shaft .773

All metal - made much the same as cable.

I put wrenches on the cut off section on the crimps. Yes, you can easily twist it.
Would it flex under driving conditions ?
Maybe.
Would it fail over time ?
Very much doubt it. It would have to be seriously rusty to do so.

Would u-joints be better ?
Not sure on that one.




This is good to know. My 'flex boot' that covered the flexible part is missing, and the flex part is rusty, and I was concerned about the rust. Should probably soak it with oil, since friction is what makes cables fail once they start rusting. Thanks for this post. :)

Reeves1

It's bluddy well snowing again today......more shop time.

I cut a spare steering shaft at the place the screw driver is pointed at.
For whatever reason, I thought there would be rubber inside it.
I had asked others what was inside & at that time no one knew.

No rubber inside it. Shaft above is hollow & measures inside the shaft .773

All metal - made much the same as cable.

I put wrenches on the cut off section on the crimps. Yes, you can easily twist it.
Would it flex under driving conditions ?
Maybe.
Would it fail over time ?
Very much doubt it. It would have to be seriously rusty to do so.

Would u-joints be better ?
Not sure on that one.



Pinto5.0

The only question about the 73 shaft would be the steering box connector since the 73 rack is a 1 year only part.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Reeves1

QuoteAre you going to use that steering wheel?

Yes. I think. Maybe ? Not fussy on the double steel bars.
I'll decide when the time comes.


QuoteI haven't looked in awhile but I'm pretty sure my 73 has a solid shaft & rag joint instead of the cable.

Interesting....
Sometimes I wish there were various Pintos/years closer, when I'm making changes.
Wonder if they fit the older cars properly ?


jeremysdad

Quote from: Reeves1 on April 26, 2014, 07:34:36 AM
Shouldn't be too bad a deal to sort out ?
Using a scrap steering rod, cut off at the screw driver point. Above the two crimps.





The flex part "should" pull out then. Flex part is 3/4".
I can then insert & weld in a section of 3/4" hardened steel rod.

For the u-joint at the rack, the part number from Flaming River is: FR 2631
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0005/s0003/FR2631

The u-joint for the top is : FR 1916
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0005/s0008/FR1916

Are you going to use that steering wheel? :)

'Head scratch the angles...' made me laugh. A lot.

:)

Pinto5.0

I haven't looked in awhile but I'm pretty sure my 73 has a solid shaft & rag joint instead of the cable.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

amc49


Reeves1

Plan is to insert the 3/4" steel rod into the top cut off section & tack weld. Longer than needed.
Install the steering assembly back into the car.
Install the rack u-joint.
Head scratch the angles.
Cut the 3/4" shaft off where it looks right.
Tack the top u-joint on.
Measure & cut another 3/4" rod , that will go between the two u-joint.
Tack in place & test with front end off the ground.

If you say it real fast , it's easy !  ;D

Reeves1

Shouldn't be too bad a deal to sort out ?
Using a scrap steering rod, cut off at the screw driver point. Above the two crimps.





The flex part "should" pull out then. Flex part is 3/4".
I can then insert & weld in a section of 3/4" hardened steel rod.

For the u-joint at the rack, the part number from Flaming River is: FR 2631
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0005/s0003/FR2631

The u-joint for the top is : FR 1916
http://www.flamingriver.com/index.php/products/c0005/s0008/FR1916

entropy

Quote from: Reeves1 on April 25, 2014, 05:04:48 AM
I have a steering dampener boot : way too big.

Problem is with V8s. Needs to be small like OEM or it's too close to heat sources.

I have parts on the way to try & make a solid steering shaft.

I'll be watching this thread to see how your attempt to go with a solid shaft and u-joints works out.
1972 Hoonabout
SBF swap
-308 cid
-CNC ported Brodix heads
-Edelbrock Super Victor intake
-QuickFuel 750 double pumper built by Siebert
-Single stage NOS Cheater system
8" rear 4.11 posi
G-Force 5 Speed
10 point rollcage


450-ish rwhp on motor.....something a bit more than that on the spray

Reeves1

I have a steering dampener boot : way too big.

Problem is with V8s. Needs to be small like OEM or it's too close to heat sources.

I have parts on the way to try & make a solid steering shaft.

amc49

Some rack boots are two step size instead of gradually necking down, outer end quite a bit smaller. I know Tempo was but do not know if the small end long enough.

Or boot for steering damper like 4WD uses.

Reeves1

Shock/rack boots are too big.

Shaft is only 1" at the points where it is attached.

Going to town today.....

Plus, I was looking at the one out of the yellow car. Think I may have it figured how to make solid with two u-joints.
Just need a junk one to cut apart for a look see.

amc49

Look at like motorcycle shock or fork gaiters, or some rack end boots are small enough to use.

Pinto5.0

'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Reeves1

or whatever they right name is ?
I've seldom seen one intact.
Have yet to find a NOS one.
Had a thought.....going to the JD dealer to see if I can find one there.
Many cable controls on heavy farm equipment.
If I find one that will work, I post info/pics/part numbers.