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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Flat spot with Holley 350 carb

Started by kerryann, April 17, 2014, 07:31:40 PM

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kerryann

yes thats what ive been thinking.  almost took the pump cam right out to see if i can pinpoint the spot.

as far as the transfer slots, once you set that idle screw with the carb off the car so you can see you really can't move it after that can you?  again i have no tach but have idle as low as i can.  the mix screws can be turned a wide range without affecting vacuum.from about 3/4" turn out to 1 3/4" turn out is where vacuum is the highest and stays about the same.  ive been putting them at 1 1/2" out to be on the rich side if anything.

Ill try some carb cleaner in the idle port and some compressed air.  ive gotten lucky that way before with blockages.

do you think im getting into trouble with the stiff 7.5 power valve?  even easing into the throttle you can see vacuum creep down to 5 or so then really drop right out to 0.  could be giving too much fuel at light throttle?

amc49

Hole size all that matters there, nozzle or no is irrelevent. If flat spot right above idle then transfers, hate to keep going there again. The idle screws should both have same effect, one not killing motor may mean a clog in passage somewhere. PV ratings do not matter if at light throttle and the problem, the power valve should not be open then. Power valve only opens with higher load. Only transfers and a slight (why cams don't matter) amount of pump shot until the main boosters activate at light throttle. Transfers will not work correctly if wrong on the slot or the idle screw messed up, the transfer fuel is the extra that curb idle port does not use. Idle mixture screw sets both the idle and off-idle (transfer) fuel. You could have a clogged idle restriction, that may be buried inside the main or idle well and hard to get to. Some are easy to see on metering block.

At very slight slow throttle increase away from idle the pump shot does nothing, it's all in the transfers jack. If correct there you need no pump shot at all on slow increase. Pump shot only for bigger quicker throttle changes. Like motorcycle, most have no accelerator pump at all, the transition circuits on those carbs do the same as on these.

kerryann

some squirters have little brass nozzles that direct the fuel a little closer to the booster vs just the drilled orifice.  they give you both types of each number with the trick kit.  theres a third kind called anti pullover squirters but theyre for spread bores

74 PintoWagon

What do you mean with or no nozzles???, there's only one piece there???...
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

was up to 31 with no nozzles but didnt make a difference.  went back down to 25 with nozzles.  have 28 and 37 as well but havent seen a difference changing them.

74 PintoWagon

What size squirter do you have???..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

Now that my timing issue has been taken care of, im back with stumbling problems.  tried just about every pump cam today.  i have a chart that gives duration and lift of all the cams.  currently back on the white cam.  tried different size squirters as well to no avail.

I did notice one potential problem, the idle mix screw on the left side (opposite from side with throttle lever) can be turned all the way in and vacuum will fall but car will stay running.  By turning the other screw all the way in the engine dies.  I would assume theres something not letting that needle seat completely on the side that doesn't kill the engine.  i have already replaced the small cork gaskets before and checked the seat visually when i did it, didnt see any visual issues.

I drove around while tuning with the vacuum gauge on a tee on full manifold vacuum.  my problem is during light acceleration.  i can get the car moving smoothly but as load increases or if i try to give it more throttle vacuum drops just about to 0 and that is where the real bad spot is, motor ceases firing for about 1-2 seconds.  5-10 of vacuum is really smooth but i either have to get the car going very slow or flat foot it.  either extreme isnt favorable for street driving.  there is no flat spot going idle to WOT.  After the flat spot the engine will recover and speed up and start to pull vacuum again.  even only 2-3" of vacuum is enough to get the thing rolling again and recover.  Not sure if i should be seeing 0 vacuum under light acceleration.  Im not really sure how to fix this either.

Still have the 7.5" power valve in it.  have about 13" of vacuum at idle in gear so i am assuming that valve is close.  blew air through both racer walsh restrictors, they both flow.  I still can't tell if this is a lean spot or over rich, no backfires through carb like lean usually does just a dead flat spot.  Ive read that most people had better luck with 5.5" power valves with the restrictors but they also didnt mention what vacuum they were getting.  had a 5.5" before and then went to 6.5 and then 7.5 without feeling much of a difference.  Considering going up to 58 jets but i dont think jet size is affecting my part throttle light acceleration, i could be wrong there though.  Maybe this carb with the stock intake just isnt going to work that great?  i have a race cam 2.5" power valve i could try just to go to one extreme.  think i may have a 10.5" in the box too.

Any ideas?

kerryann

ive tried every position imaginable, just wont work.  i have finally noticed that when i turn the distributor counterclockwise spark cuts out.  it doesnt appear to be a loose wire going to the distributor, im not sure why its doing that.  getting ready to make the parts store take this distributor back.  i dont know how cam timing or anything could have went out of adjustment considering the car ran fine 3 days ago.  just doesnt make any sense.  going to look for a distributor out of a used vehicle i guess so i know that it works.

74 PintoWagon

Well, you have other things going on then, is the cam timed right, how bout the plug wires are they on the firing order?, it don't matter where the distributor is at as long as you're on TDC on compression and the rotor is pointing at #1, again everything else has to be timed right also.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

i have achieved this and it will not even start, just hesitates and backfires.  i can tell its out of time but ive followed every duraspark timing thread ive found on the internet.  It truly doesnt matter what tooth distributor is on as long as the rotor points to #1 wire?

74 PintoWagon

You're out of time, when the motor is at TDC(on compression) the rotor should be pointing at #1 plug wire.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

i don't follow.  there is a recess in the shaft that the plastic rotor falls into.  this keeps it in position.  i set the motor at TDC on cyl 1 and get the distributor to drop down.  now i can set the distributor so that the rotor points directly at #1 and it just still will not fire.

ive just tried 4 different consecutive teeth on the distributor gear, each advancing more.  and set the timing so the rotor points at #1 or slightly advanced.

it finally fired up but now it just surges and dies,  backfires every now and then.  i can keep it running by popping the throttle when it goes to die but it wont idle at all.  my gf tried to keep it running for me while i tried to see where timing was but i just cant get an accurate reading, its all over the place because of the surging.

can anyone PLEASE either tell me or take a picture of where their rotor and vacuum advancer are pointing on a car that is timed right and at TDC of cylinder 1??  ive never had this much trouble with a distributor before.

it is in the 16L slot and has a bushing on the stop, i figured that was a good place to start but im at a loss.  it has two light springs on it, the one that came out had one very heavy spring and one light, maybe theres an issue there.  i don't know what else to do.  just cleaned out the carburetor again and put in a new accelerator pump diaphragm.  made no difference.  carb worked fine before.  i just cant figure this distributor out

74 PintoWagon

I don't understand why you're having so much trouble, as I said before just put the distributor in  if it don't drop just rotate the motor until it drops. Number 1 can be where ever you want it to be, but right now put the cap on and put a mark on the side of the distributor at #1 wire now put the distributor in where you want it with the rotor pointing at the mark, when it drops down bring it up to TDC and line up the rotor with the mark and you're at 0*.. If it ends up too far one way or the other just pull it back out move it whichever way and do it again.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

getting the rotor at #1 is where i am having the problem.  i never thought id have such a hard time getting the distributor to drop down and engage the oil pump driveshaft.  i turn the shaft with a socket and a couple extensions over and over very slightly and just seem to get nowhere.  i got it in once with what seemed like the right advance and it would not run just backfire.  took it out and got it in with the rotor pointing right at #1 so that i can still pull some advance in it and it still will not run, just misfires and backfires.

the picture shows the first position which i assume had too much static advance.  the small black sharpie mark on the vacuum armature represents where #1 is when the cap is on.  can anyone tell me where the rotor should be facing when it drops down?

74 PintoWagon

That's no problem, if the the drive don't engage just rotate the motor when it lines up the distributor will drop down done deal, continue to TDC and set the rotor to #1..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

got it on tdc by pulling valve cover and watching intake valve.  used a stop on piston but its pretty easy to see by eye down the hole when it stops.

first time distributor did not fit at all.  checked old distributor with my vernier and sure enough it was bigger around on the machined surface than the last one.  i removed o ring and carefull sanded id down to match the old distributor.  blew it off with air.  put o ring back on.  lubricated it with engine oil.  now it drops right down to where the gear and oil pump drive have to mesh and drop all the way down.  won't do it.  ive been carefully turning the oil pump drive with a long 5/16" ratched with long extension on it.  what a pain.  i assume this must be my last problem.  it can be frustrating to do on the chevys as well.  just so far cant get them to go together.  all the lengths are the same and gear pitch and number of teeth on the gears are the same.  i'll keep working on it but the other one still drops right in.

74 PintoWagon

The stock canister is not adjustable, you'll have to get an aftermarket one. To bring it up on TDC pull #1 plug out, rotate the motor with your finger on the hole, when you feel pressure on your finger you're coming up on #1, now line up your timing marks at 0 on the tab, to find "absolute" TDC you'll need a piston stop.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

i completely understand that, i didnt think the stock canister was adjustable with an allen wrench like the crane.  if it is that will be easy.  if not im not exactly sure yet the best way to modify the vacuum advance limit.

also, there is no easy way to find TDC on cylinder one without pulling valve cover is there?  im in the process of pulling the valve cover to watch the valves so i know im at the top of the intake stroke.

74 PintoWagon

Like I said you won't know until you try it. Again, vacuum advance has nothing to do with the initial or total, the vacuum advances beyond the total at cruise when the vacuum is up, if it rattles at cruise(full vacuum)then adjust the canister so it won't pull all the way, you back it off a little at a time until the rattle goes away, your total is still going to be the same on the centrifugal.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

crane also suggests sticking with stiffer advance springs due to the increasingly worse and worse gasoline.  i think some of my issue may be that i wasnt winding the car up to 4500 or so where they say full advance comes in with the very stiff spring.  may have been missing the boat altogether and actually had more total at high speed.  either way i will get it straightened out.  would like to see full advance a little sooner.  not sure i can go right to full advance by 2500 with regular gas.  if i get up to 15 or more initial i assume im going to have to greatly limit the vacuum advance to stop pinging.  id rather have a lower initial so that the overlap of vacuum advance puts it in a good spot.  we'll see, going to pick up new distributor now.

74 PintoWagon

This has been explained in previous posts, lol, but you're getting the idea..

Every application is different you won't know until you try it, that's the reason for adjustability. BTW, nothing wrong with 15 initial.

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

ok that is what i am after, with 36 total i dont want to have 15 initial like what happens currently.  there is also a thin bushing on the stop that i know i could have removed.  but its irrelevant now that i need to put in a new distributor.  im going to take the new one apart and verify whats in it first.

doing some more reading last night i found this interesting as well.

http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/instructions/crn-271e.pdf

these are instructions for the crane adjustable vacuum advance canister for fords.  heres the last paragraphs:

The curve you have achieved is designed to give you the best economy and performance.

In general, cars and trucks originally equipped with Ford Electronic distributors will be able to use a total advance of 45° to 55°. Some factors may limit the amount of total ignition timing your vehicle can use. These factors are increased compression, declining octane rating of gasoline, certain intake manifolds that will not tolerate increased ignition timing, lock-up torque converters, extremely heavy loads, and lean fuel mixture.

can you really get away with this much total on regular gas?


74 PintoWagon

Quote from: kerryann on May 03, 2014, 09:42:52 PM
how will the long slot give less initial timing than the short?  i thought these slots were just limits on total timing.  and i thought the numbers stamped on them represented half of the number of total mechanical advance.  initial you set by turning the distributor until you get it where you want it correct?  then a 21R slot would allow the distributor to advance another 42 degrees (2x21).  Am I wrong here?  this is starting too seem too confusing. 

I also noticed there's not much support for springs for ford distributors.  the mr. gasket kit only gives you one set of springs.
The total is the same regardless of the slot, it's the amount of travel. As an example say you have 36 total and 16 initial with a short slot, with the long slot you would still have 36 total but the initial may only be 12, if you widen the slot on the return side initial will drop more.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

ok i understand that distributor turns at half of crank rotation, so 21R should be giving me 42 degrees at the crank, just not sure why this wasn't happening.  springs were plenty stiff enough to pull weights back to the end of the slot.  any chance the springs would ever be too stiff to allow the full centrifugal advance?  since the stock distributor is now broke, i'll see what i can get with the reman.

can this type of ignition be statically timed with the ignition on?  i figure im going to have to get #1 at TDC and just get the rotor to point at #1 plug wire, then put a little advance in and see where im at.

kerryann

how will the long slot give less initial timing than the short?  i thought these slots were just limits on total timing.  and i thought the numbers stamped on them represented half of the number of total mechanical advance.  initial you set by turning the distributor until you get it where you want it correct?  then a 21R slot would allow the distributor to advance another 42 degrees (2x21).  Am I wrong here?  this is starting too seem too confusing. 

I also noticed there's not much support for springs for ford distributors.  the mr. gasket kit only gives you one set of springs.

74 PintoWagon

You only need the single the dual was for smog, the long slot will give you less initial than the short one.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

kerryann

got a new distributor coming in the morning.  destroyed the old distributor trying to get to the advance plates.  last screw to take the plate off that holds the pickup wouldnt budge.  tried using as much finesse as possible but it still cracked.  then snapped off both bolts for the vacuum advance.  hoping these remans will last more than a few months.

now im really confused.  the advance plate was on the 21R slot.  this would mean 42 degrees of mechanical advance correct?  the other slot is 16R.  says 21L and 16L on the bottom when you flip it over.  has one lighter weight pink spring and one heavier red spring.

How am i only seeing about 20-21 degrees advance on the 21R slot?  I have no idea what will come in my new distributor tomorrow but im saving this piece with 21 and 16 just in case.  Are these truly half the advance numbers?  just seems very strange that 21R gives me 20-21 degrees advance even though it should be giving me 42.  i forgot to mark my rotor positioning also so might have a fun time trying to get the new distributor in the right spot.

i also ordered the single vacuum distributor, not the dual vacuum.  not sure if that was the right thing to do or not.

amc49

The engine revs a good 500 rpm more at 60-70 mph than a V-8 and normal.

$20 carb huh? It becomes clear and I'da done that for only $20 too. Price rules (right Dianne? please put down that brick.......).

I used to strip and toss solenoids and dashpots off everything, I wish I had kept a few. Them things come in handy for specific issues and expensive as heck now. If you can even find the particular one you need.

kerryann

good to hear on the 8"  i thought for sure we were going to have to cut the driveshaft or find a longer one.  what do you guys think of a 3.40 gear for the street?  we currently have a 3.08.  a friend of mine swears that that was the way to go on these cars and that he got the best mileage letting these little motors wind up into the power band a little more.  that was a long time back from the days of non ethanol fuel as well though.

dick1172762

8" rear end is a direct bolt in. Pinto backing plates / brake drums / drive shaft, all work as is. Couldn't be easyer.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.