Mini Classifieds

Sunroof shade
Date: 06/19/2019 01:33 pm
1974 Pinto Misc. moldings & parts

Date: 12/20/2016 10:47 pm
Wanted instrument cluster lens for 74
Date: 04/30/2023 04:31 pm
74 Pinto Hub Caps & Trim Rings

Date: 02/28/2018 09:37 am
Need 2.3 timing cover
Date: 08/10/2018 11:41 am
1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/28/2018 09:18 am
1978 RUNABOUT

Date: 04/01/2017 03:18 pm
1978 hatch back

Date: 11/29/2019 03:18 pm
1980 Ford Pinto Squire Wagon * All original 1 Owner *

Date: 09/15/2019 12:28 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 2,670
  • Online ever: 2,670 (Today at 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 571
  • Total: 571
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Holley 5200 idle jet size...curious.

Started by jeremysdad, August 21, 2013, 12:08:56 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

74 PintoWagon

Yep it makes sense and I know how it works just didn't word it right I guess, but basics are the same though just more adjustability with the Weber which makes them superior over most carbs.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on September 03, 2013, 11:33:51 PM
Is the idle circuit lean also?, changing the idle jets only affect the idle mixture at idle, you only need to change those if you can't get an adjustment on the mixture screw, once the butterfly is past the transfer slot you're on the main and the idle jets have no effect.

My brain is too tired to process the thought it is trying to get out, but in a Weber-designed carb, the progression holes (first ones uncovered if you flip it over and look just above the mixture screw) is also fed by the idle jet. I had a page with an illustration, but forgot to bookmark it. Thus the "speed screw open no more than 1 to 1&1/2 turns, mixture screw no more than 2 turns out" rule. The speed screw too far in is fudging a too lean idle jet by uncovering the progression circuit (and causes a flat spot when you tip in because you are idling on your enrichment circuit).

Does that make sense?

Eta: What you said is spot on for a standard Holley-design carb (your typical Motorcraft/Autolite carb, etc).

Eta 2: Not exactly what I was looking for, but shows the circuit pretty well. Notice how the hole right above the throttle plates are fed from the channel that feeds the idle mixture screw. https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=VFqNCfVDaDhFKM&tbnid=W3T5fTYa4xV2BM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.webercarburatori.com%2F%3Fp%3Dhandbook%26s%3D2&ei=25gnUrORB8rC4AO1kIDYDQ&bvm=bv.51495398,d.dmg&psig=AFQjCNFnNmr0FiMJQYyPBuuIo-XrNUgIWA&ust=1378413057600345

74 PintoWagon

Is the idle circuit lean also?, changing the idle jets only affect the idle mixture at idle, you only need to change those if you can't get an adjustment on the mixture screw, once the butterfly is past the transfer slot you're on the main and the idle jets have no effect.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

I'm not too bad at chasing jetting. I swapped all 4 jets because the NOS carb was running lean & all 4 jets were smaller than my stock carb. It's not AS lean now but it's still lean. Putting the smaller air corrector jets that came with the NOS carb back in & leaving the larger 36 year old fuel jets in place should richen the mixture. My plugs are white & ashy.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

jeremysdad

So, I remembered why my brain said 'It needs more fuel.' All the gas around here that you can find anymore is E10. Now, as we all (should know), adding ethanol to your gas sounds good (in theory, but not really), but it decreases fuel mileage. Why? Less potential energy. Modern vehicles can compensate for it on the fly, but we have to adjust through tuning. Have you ever read the jetting specs for an alcohol powered drag car? They're HUGE!!!

That's all I wanted to say. Hope everybody's having a great Labor Day weekend!!! :D

Keep it between the ditches. :)

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: Pinto5.0 on August 29, 2013, 09:06:58 PMOh OK, so if I install the smaller pair that came with the carb combined with the larger fuel jets I installed from the stock carb it should richen it up. I swapped all 4 assuming they were all fuel related. I forget the sizes but all 4 stock jets were larger than the jets in the NOS carb.

Probably time to go back to square one and start over, and only "one" change at a time, shouldn't really have to change the air bleeds unless you did extensive mods on the motor?. . Don't know if you seen this before but this explains how the different circuits work, it is pretty simple.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/holley_carburetor/Holley_5200_Carburetor.pdf

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

Believe me, unless you have STRONG reason to and are a tuning guru, you do not want to change any AIR jet on a carb. Not as simple as fuel changes, and much harder to understand the effect. Changing a fuel jet pretty much richens everywhere, change an airjet or emulsion tube and you change the entire CURVE of fuel, say low fuel at low rpm to high fuel at same rpm but the same fuel amount further up the range. The change is NOT equilateral across the whole spectrum of the jet use at all. Think of a steep ramp as versus a shallower one, but with same fuel at the top, or same fuel at the bottom. Now take that steep ramp and grab it in the middle and yank it one way or the other, what airjets and emulsion tubes can do. You can get lost there so fast it's not funny.

When you have a carb pretty much dialed in like stock ones are you are dollars to donuts miles ahead by changing fuel jets only.

Say I have car that runs too lean at less rpm and too rich at higher, all at WOT so mainjet only, how would you correct it? Think about it. Oh, and I took the power valve away from you too..............................

jeremysdad

It is a Weber. Define 'top', Good Sir. The two you can't see without removing the air cleaner are your 'air correctors'. The one you can see without removing your air cleaner is your Primary Idle jet. The one you have to crook your head around your valve cleaner...well...that's your secondary idle jet, and that doesn't come into play until over 2200 rpm.

The two under your 'air correctors' are your 'emulsion tubes', which everything I have read says should not be touched unless you are an air/fuel ratio meter. :D lol

If it doesn't fit this: Speed screw less than 1 & 1/2 turns from not touching, and mixture between 1 & 1/4 to 1 & 3/4 turns from bottomed, then your Weber isn't jetted correctly.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on August 29, 2013, 08:40:00 PM
The ones on the top are the air bleeds.

Oh OK, so if I install the smaller pair that came with the carb combined with the larger fuel jets I installed from the stock carb it should richen it up. I swapped all 4 assuming they were all fuel related. I forget the sizes but all 4 stock jets were larger than the jets in the NOS carb.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

The ones on the top are the air bleeds.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

Great, so there's no way to put smaller air correctors in to richen it up? That means drilling my fuel jets
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

Yes they flow fuel for the idle circuit.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Pinto5.0

I can tune Weber IDF's with my eyes closed but my 5200 was a 1st time attempt. I know the fuel jets are the ones in the bowl submerged in gas but are the 2 upper jets for air or are they fuel as well?
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

74 PintoWagon

Yep, points to electronic is like night and day..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

Man I converted my points to electronic long ago, and a mistake not to. The engine just runs so much longer and smoother the whole way. As soon as I found junkyard parts it was done.

Hot ignition clears up a lot of perceived carb troubles. When you put a suddenly hot firing ignition on you can experience a need for slightly more fuel when the hotter spark burns all you have and asks for more. MANY erratic but perceived as incorrect jetting issues can be solved with electronic ignition.

74 PintoWagon

Well, don't have no emissions here so I'm lucky there, distributor is crap so I'm gonna ditch the points and go HEI, may not even have to do anything to carb after that, lol..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad

Quote from: 74 PintoWagon on August 27, 2013, 08:19:29 AM
Thanks, I just found that site last night.. Of course the ignition is crap so I probably should fix that before messing with the carb, LOL..

Definitely do replace your ignition first. That's what led me to my belief that I need slightly more richness. (Which, I had wondered, as Chiltons states that one of the emissions features for 72 is an 'Emissions-rated carb'. Then after my discovery that my random miss was distributor cap related, and general running condition was still yet improved by a fresh set of plugs and wires (both under 7000 miles/12 mos in age) this weekend, it's evidently lacking something.

My list of fresh ignition parts: distributor, points (new), condensor (new), rotor (new), coil, wires (new), plugs (new). All gapped and set according to spec, timing set to 8 degrees, verified no vac leaks, new cam, fresh head rebuild, etc. Also new within 7000 miles: thermostat, coolant system hoses, radiator flushed, battery (new, with fresh connections).

Beyond that, it needs more gas. :) Thoughts welcomed, but carb and tuning parts on the way, anyway. Cause shiney is good!!! :)

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: amc49 on August 27, 2013, 08:09:31 AM
Should help.............go down just past halfway to 'Holley 5200 jets' section.

http://www.mazdatrucking.com/B2200/5200.html


Thanks, I just found that site last night.. Of course the ignition is crap so I probably should fix that before messing with the carb, LOL..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

amc49

Should help.............go down just past halfway to 'Holley 5200 jets' section.

http://www.mazdatrucking.com/B2200/5200.html


74 PintoWagon

Quote from: amc49 on August 26, 2013, 07:50:46 PM
Two listed there, 6655 and 6655-1, both show Ford Pinto 2.0L MTX and for 49 states not California. Both use pretty much same hard parts.

primary idle fuel jet 60
secondary idle fuel jet 80

primary main fuel 137
secondary main fuel 135

And yes, the number spread seems reversed from the last set given. I triple checked to be sure of what catalog says. I have found this in junkyard carbs before too. The fuel jet depends upon the airjet, you can have a smaller fuel jet and still flow more fuel. The airjet determines the draw on the main fuel jet and same exact main fuel jet can be made to supply more or less fuel. 

There are some carbs where the idle fuel jet is blocked off and not installed either front or rear, for reasons of their own the OEM using that carb wanted to make sure it was harder for people to mess with emission settings. There will be an idle jet somewhere as you MUST have one, but pressed down inside a channel so hard to find and mod. Or they may be looking at costs savings of drilling, tapping more holes too. Them guys will throw a party over one hole saved on 50,000 cars, and someone will probably get a bonus for finding the cost saving.
Thanks much for the info, I looked at the idle jets and can't see any numbers on them, are those numbers hole sizes?, the main jets don't have anything on them either but the hole size was .050 and .055??, and the high speeds have 70P and 90S. I know the idle jets need to be changed since the idle mixture screw is barely a 1/4 turn out and still don't idle quite right.
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

Scott Hamilton

Excellent information AMC- Really good hard to find stuff!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

amc49

Two listed there, 6655 and 6655-1, both show Ford Pinto 2.0L MTX and for 49 states not California. Both use pretty much same hard parts.

primary idle fuel jet 60
secondary idle fuel jet 80

primary main fuel 137
secondary main fuel 135

And yes, the number spread seems reversed from the last set given. I triple checked to be sure of what catalog says. I have found this in junkyard carbs before too. The fuel jet depends upon the airjet, you can have a smaller fuel jet and still flow more fuel. The airjet determines the draw on the main fuel jet and same exact main fuel jet can be made to supply more or less fuel. 

There are some carbs where the idle fuel jet is blocked off and not installed either front or rear, for reasons of their own the OEM using that carb wanted to make sure it was harder for people to mess with emission settings. There will be an idle jet somewhere as you MUST have one, but pressed down inside a channel so hard to find and mod. Or they may be looking at costs savings of drilling, tapping more holes too. Them guys will throw a party over one hole saved on 50,000 cars, and someone will probably get a bonus for finding the cost saving.

74 PintoWagon

Quote from: amc49 on August 24, 2013, 10:33:34 PM
That one shows original application was a '72 Pinto 2.0L ATX

Primary idle fuel jet 55, secondary 50.

Main fuel jet 132 primary, secondary 135.

Note: the catalog is messed up on the idle jet positions. It calls the key number out for primary but is indicating the secondary position in the carb breakdown picture. Vice versa for the other one. The actual numbers I gave you may be right anyway, if they were input into catalog from a simple list instead of that same mis-translation of the call out pic. They WILL be right for values, just may be mixed up as to the position. Five million numbers in a catalog, sooner or later somebody had to fudge up somewhere............

Thinking the primary slightly bigger to have reserve for the curb idle screw, two fuel circuits on the primary side, only one on the secondary. You also want the one with the adjustment screw slightly bigger so that you can go slightly rich with the screw as an indicator you've gone too far, it helps when setting the screw. I'd be going with the 55 in primary..............

From the 'Holley Carburetor Illustrated Parts and Specs Manual' dated 1975, I bought mine around '78 or so.
Would you happen to have the specs for R-6655?, I can't find anything on it, it was on the car and I'm sure it's not what came on there originally. Thanks..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

jeremysdad


amc49

Your stuff, your choice as always Daddio...................

jeremysdad

I'm aware of 'Racetep', but they're not on eBay. I figure with a brand new 32/36, my current state of tune, and a tuning kit...we're walking in high cotton.

amc49

Five minutes of research on the web says I'm wrong. Appears Holley and Weber used same nomenclature for jets. Kit should work but I didn't find the main sizes supplied in it, only three may not help.

Kit a bit high to me, I wouldn't use half of it. Once the air jets are locked in, rare to need to change them. I like separate stuff, of course the shipping can kill you............

http://www.racetep.com/weberX.html#jets

amc49

Long shot there.................been a long time since I went looking for Pinto jets. I'd bet the numbering could be different, and changing to a Weber was a mistake in my day, they had no power valves and absolutely sucked for mileage as a result. Of course now that could be different. The lack of a PV will surely tilt the jet package. No PV means the main must get much bigger.

I know what the conventional wisdom says, but I carefully drilled by hand when I wanted bigger jets back in the day, and had no trouble at all. Had a Holley chart showing the absolute hole sizes of marked jets. A few overlapped by virtue of the finish being different on same hole size but the ones I drilled (using a modeler's pin vise) showed more fuel when used.

jeremysdad


jeremysdad

You, Kind Sir, have my sincerest thanks. That was spot-on what and where my jets are. Now I know what to shop for in a tuning kit, size-wise.

Kudos. Seriously, kudos.

Edit: Lol. Everybody's human. Mistakes happen. :)