Mini Classifieds

Looking for a 1977 Ford Pinto Runabout Hatchback
Date: 10/15/2017 10:03 am
Lower Alternator bracket
Date: 08/26/2017 05:11 pm
77 pinto
Date: 08/22/2017 06:31 pm
1979 Runabout Rear Panel
Date: 01/04/2020 02:03 pm
Oddsnends
Date: 12/20/2016 10:52 am
1971 ford pinto items for sale

Date: 08/03/2017 07:40 pm
Lower Alternator bracket
Date: 08/26/2017 05:11 pm
1976 Ford Pinto

Date: 07/16/2019 02:51 am
Need seals Pinto Wagon
Date: 02/16/2017 05:09 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,599
  • Total Topics: 16,270
  • Online today: 450
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 1
  • Guests: 265
  • Total: 266
  • rob289c
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

help please ignition cylinder

Started by tonij1960, November 26, 2012, 10:33:17 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

r4pinto

Isn't the steering wheel locked as well?
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

ToniJ1960

 Well I got the plastic collar out of the way and still couldnt get the rod loose. Theres some kind of metal flap or something that covers that e nd, and the roll pin or drift pin is underneath on the bottom too.It looks like the whole end of the column would have to come apart.

Tommorrow someone is going to help me try to drill out the pin. I think we`ll start with a 1/16 split point bit, try to center punch it if we can. If that goes well then maybe a 1/8 to finish it. The pin measures just under 1/8 on my micrometer. I might need a 7/64 bit even.

Im nearly tempted to saw that rod in two just to try and get my car started and put it back together with a piece of metal sleeve and jb weld. If it doesnt go smoothly tomorrow, I think I will. I need my car back.

r4pinto

If it is anything like my 77 it doesn't have spring clips but the pin that everyone else is referring to. Tonji, as long as you are careful you should be able to drill it out. If you have a way to center punch it that will help the drill bit from slipping. I know it will be hard with the pin being so small but as long as you take your time you should be ok. Once it's drilled out you can then remove the cylinder with no problem.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

Srt

around the area of the column that the lock cyl slides into; are there any small holes at opposite sides around the circumference?  if you loook at the diagram you see two spring clips. i'm wondering if perhaps those were depressed somehow, that the ylinder will slide out.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

ToniJ1960

 Ok I can see it now thats the button on the right side that locks the steering wheel,I wasnt thinking it rode on top pf the gear.But it did look more like the left side would be the end the rod went onto. The shroud is off the column so all I have to do is figure out how to get that plastic collar off I guess. Then if it is the cylinder how to get it out if I cant even turn it. I might ry drilling the pin but it seems like a lot of metal to drill off. Maybe drill a hole through it to just weaken it then try a  slide hammer.

I really want to thank you for taking so much time to show me all these pieces in detail. And for your patience.

discolives78

The picture of the part above's orientation is 'right side of photo' toward steering wheel and 'left side of photo' toward dash, and that is the bottom side, it rides above the tumber with the teeth facing down. I would start by removing the plastic shields around the column, once they are out of the way you should be able to loosen the collar directly behind (toward the dash) the metal housing for the tumbler, at that end, I'm pretty sure you'll find a 'roll pin' attaching it. if you can get that roll pin out with a punch and hammer, then you won't have to drop the column and you will be able to tell if the lower electrical or the mechano surrounding the tumbler is your woe. Take heart, even if you do have to drop the column, it's only 4 bolts and has enough give to drop a ways, and it's a small car, so it's a lightweight part...as far as that goes. I tried to get a bigger exploded view here, but that was as good as I could get. Hopefully you can zoom your browser in.






A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

ToniJ1960

 Is that picture of the piece with teeth in it, pointed the right end towards the switch and left side towards the steering wheel? And the teeth ride on t he gear at the back of the tumbler? I saw a picure of the tumbler in an exploded view in a haynes manual for a fairmont Im sure some parts are different though.

And if you, or anyone, knows if one end of the rod or the other is easiest to remove (and get back on again ) to just check to see if the actual switch is bound up?

discolives78



It looks like the rod is hooked upward at that end and you just lift it off said hook, been a while since I was under there. Also the rod is not a part of the potmetal lock mechanism behind the tumbler inside the column, the tapered end sticking out of that 'lock block' picture last night is the part I'm referring to here, behind that taper are teeth, and that piece slides up and down the column as you turn the key, and has a hole toward the dash side for the rod to hook into. The bolt slots in this pic are the bolts holding the column to the metal dash.



This is the other end, there's a gear that stands vertical with a slot for the tumbler that engages these teeth. I can't remember now how the bracket looked with the instrument cluster out, you may not be able to get to it that way after all (sorry) the Haynes manual says to disconnect the battery, undo the column to dash bolts and lower the column for access, and again, no mention of clip, just lift straight up off rod


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

discolives78

I'm thinking a slide hammer could work, but it could break something. I got lucky one time and just twisted the chrome part of the switch with a good sized pair of channel locks, the tab on the column end of the tumbler just twisted right off, but another time I tried the same thing  ::) always losing my keys, and just the chrome part broke off, and I had to go junkyarding and get another column.


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

discolives78

It could be, I was just getting ready to show you a couple of pics anyway. How are your keys, are they badly worn? You can try getting some graphite lube for locks and applying it to the key, not the switch, and inserting and removing it a few times then trying to turn it. If your keys are worn and it's keyed the same for both door and ignition, then you can take your door lock cylinder out and take it to a locksmith and for $15-20 they can make you a new one. Sometimes they get so worn that they don't depress the 'teeth' inside the lock anymore. As for using a remote starter switch, I would say no in this case because the switch is not in the on position, so hooking up the remote start would only crank it, and it wouldn't fire.





Fred suggested in that other link in my last post to remove the steering wheel and then removing that lock block, I'm thinking much more that your problem is the electrical portion, it's on the top of the steering column bracker, way easier to remove the instrument cluster to work on it, but beware and be gentle if you choose that route, the white plastic 'bucket' that holds the gauges is more often than not dry-rotted. I know it's late and you're probably not going to run out there now and mess with it, but I'm checking in a few times a day lately and hopefully another might have advice for you too.



A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

ToniJ1960

 I read his post and I could probably figure out how to free the steering wheel Im sure. I dont know if I can get the car to run by starting it with a remote start switch or not though.

And if the cy;linder should be in the run position to get that pin in, theres a problem because one, it wont turn at all. And two, even when it did and I tried to replace the cylinder a couple years ago after someone tried to steal it, the pin wouldnt go in so I just left it the way it was.

Now I didnt think, if the switch itself might be jammed and keeping the cylinder from turning. Is that likely?

And yes I tried turning the steering wheel jiggling it jiggling the key the tow truck driver tried for a while and gave up too. I think I just need to get the cylinder out I dont care if its in pieces and the collar is  alreadsy broke off from the theft attempt a couple of years ago. So I can see inside the cylinder I might even be able to disect it. Or I guess drill out the pin? Break it out with a slide hammer? Thats how they changed the cylinder on my 74 wagon I had once.

discolives78

Did you try rocking the steering wheel back and forth while you're turning the key? Sometimes mine would hang and it took an effort on the switch and the wheel at the same time. The electrical part of the switch is down under the dash with a rod leading up to the tumbler itself, on the top side of the column, the electrical part can be unbolted from the column, and the 'lock block' screw at the other end of the rod under the steering wheel is the screw directly to the left of the 'key in buzzer' switch, the white plastic with a single wire on the upper right. Haynes manual says 'run' position for removal, and  that it should be 'on' when inserting it and to turn it 'off' to release the pin after inserting it. I'd suggest lubricating freely inside the tumbler socket on the column while it's apart, I use spray lithium grease on stuff like that. One more thing, the socket for the wires to plug in on the electrical part is held to the housing that mounts to the column with 4 small metal tabs that are bent over, sometimes they come unbent and the two parts separate, there's a ball bearing in there, and if it's out of place, it'll jam up the works. I've put them back together before, but if the tabs become really weak then the fix only lasts a few weeks and a new electrical portion is in order. Hope it helps, and hope you get back on the road soon!

There was a suggestion from Fred Morgan in another thread for simply bypassing it and getting on your way, it was here:



http://www.fordpinto.com/general-help/help!!-21731/

:)


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

ToniJ1960

 Well it started to go to the store but wouldnt come home. The ignition cylinder just wont turn. Its the first time in over 12 years my poor old car was on a tow truck.

  Its a 1978 Pinto wagon, I had it for nearly 27 years and right now I emphasize nearly lol.


My questions are

1. if it wont turn can it still be replaced easily? I forgot what position it has to be in for that pin to go in. I didnt change it before because that pin wouldnt  even go in when it did still work. Can it be drilled out? Or a slide hammer break the cylinder out like on a 74?

2. If I can get the steering wheel of and disable the wheel lock, will it run if I use a remote start switch to just be able to drive it somewhere to get it fixed? I dont know what all circuits are on the ignition switch if the car will run lights all work no lights what.

Anyone with some imput answers etc please help thank you Pinto People I always enjoy reading the Forum and try to [ut in 2 cents worth when I can. Hoping someone will ease my anxiety a little with this.