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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New project... 1980 Runabout

Started by r4pinto, June 18, 2012, 09:56:55 PM

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russosborne

Did you stop at that location, shut the car off, and see if it restarted? :-)
Russ
In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

r4pinto

Just got done with a 69 mile round trip and the only issue is an occasional speedometer issue probably due to an old cable, and wipers that kept quitting. I filled up and got almost 24 mpg. That is accurate for that engine and carb set up. The same engine and carb got about that in the 77.  The maiden voyage was to Plain City Ohio. Right past where she broke down in 2012. Mission accomplished


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

russosborne

In Glendale, Arizona

RIP Casey, Mallory, Abby, and Sadie. We miss you.

79 Pinto ESS fully caged fun car. In progress. 8inch 4.10 gears. 351C and a T5 waiting to go in.

72DutchWagon

A few days late, but well meant congratulations from far away Europe on getting your Pinto on the road!
Nothing like getting an old machine functioning again, and having it do what it's supposed to do.

r4pinto

Thanks and sure will be. I am going to place a good spare tire in the car with my jack just in case and take the drive. The steering feels good, brakes solid, transmission shifting smoothly so no reason she won't do good. The headlights are actually brighter than my Impala and all other lights work. Did notice at first the wiper switch was iffy but once used a few times it never stopped working.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

r4pinto

Thanks guys. Since she did good on that test I am taking her on the final test tonight and that is driving the car to Plain City on the exact route I took to buy the car in 2012. That'll be the real test.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dga57

Sounds like a winner to me!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

r4pinto

First fill up in who knows how long. Not even 91k on the clock, although the engine has about 130k on the clock. Ran great on the freeway. Didn't miss a beat. And  the more I drive it the better it handles even with rusted out shocks
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dga57

Gosh... I don't remember exactly.  I bought five (figured I may as well have a matching spare) and I'm thinking they were about $350, give or take a little. That was in April or May of this year. 


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

r4pinto

So I didn't do anything to the car last night. It was a rough day & just didn't give a crap about much. Today after the gym I plan to pull the choke assembly off the 80 carb & mount it to the one on the car. Right now the choke isn't hooked up so I know cold weather driving won't be too good & noticed the choke valve isn't opening so I think it's not right anyway. I am also going to see about hooking up the Clarion stereo. Think it'll be easier than the Kraco I have. Only thing is I need to get a tap for the fuse panel so I can have the memory preset working. Only thing is finding the tap.

I also need to replace some blown fuses in the fuse box, including the radio fuse which blew the other day when on accident the ground wire touched the hot wire & popped it. Instant short to ground. At least I know the fuses did the job. If all goes according to plan I'll be driving the car to work starting next week. The Impala isn't doing to well. Mr Leaky Leak is getting worse & has developed a noise in the front end.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Quote from: dga57 on October 17, 2016, 02:54:54 PM
It will be exciting to take it to a car show after all this time! 


I bought new whitewalls online for my Pinto - they sure gave it that "fresh out of the factory" look!


Dwayne :)
I lucked out in 2011. Only thing is I doubt I'll get full life out of these since they haven't been driven on. How much did they cost you? I know 13s are getting harder to get in the tire stores.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dga57

It will be exciting to take it to a car show after all this time! 


I bought new whitewalls online for my Pinto - they sure gave it that "fresh out of the factory" look!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

r4pinto

Quote from: dga57 on October 16, 2016, 10:47:06 PM
I love whitewalls on a Pinto!!!


Dwayne :)

Those are actually  the tires I got from the 77. The OE wheels for the 80 are the alloys, which will be refinished before I even consider mounting tires on them. For steel wheel and hubcaps I like the whitewall look. The spare tire I have is actually a white wall but facing in so I'm going to have it reversed, just in case I have a flat, and need to have the spare on.

10/29 there is a car show a few miles from me, and I will be going to it, as well as a car show in Springfield, Ohio 11/11. Don't see why the car won't go to that either. I still need to install a radio, fix the bad right speaker, and maybe replace the seat belts with the ones I got from a 1986 Tempo so the car will be better. Hopefully those will work. Worse case I'll take the black ones from the 77 and use them but I'd rather go with newer blue seatbelts.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dga57

I love whitewalls on a Pinto!!!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

dga57

Around the corner... and beyond!!!  Way to go, Matt!  Congratulations!!!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

r4pinto

Now the engine compartment
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

74 PintoWagon

Sounds like this will be a real cool ride, looking forward to seeing it finished..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

r4pinto


Thought it would be nice to see a before and after of the car, as well as the engine. The pics were 5 years ago so just as a refresher...
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Quote from: pintoman1 on October 16, 2016, 08:05:42 PM
Again, Matt job well done. looks good, sounds good too. looks like you are well on your way to having a good driver. just a few more details and your good. I like the hub caps you have on it too, goes good with the white walls.


Glen

Thanks Glen. I bought them a couple years ago off ebay for $12 for all 4. I do need to get new valve stems on the tires next weekend hopefully. It was a pain to get her on the road today. Planned on an easy fix for the front brakes, then bleed all 4 wheels. Nope, didn't happen. Bled the fronts until I got clean fluid out of both calipers. RF caliper was from the 77 due to a seized RF caliper found when replacing the RF rotor which was also from the 77. I go to the rears to bleed them and got the LR wheel bled until clean fluid came out but the RR would not bleed. I removed the bleeder screw but no luck. Before I drive the car on any distances I will be replacing it with the RR wheel cylinder from the 77. The RR brake stops but I want to be sure it's good. I put in fluids and when I shifted the car in drive it rotated but when I put in park it made a ton of noise. I feared transmission problems.

I don't know what prompted me to but I looked outside the car and hit the brake but the LR wheel would not stop. Noise found. the transmission not being happy when putting in park due to still spinning.  Took the wheel and drum off the car and saw the LR shoes were shot. Heat cracked bigtime. Replaced the shoes thinking they weren't grabbing due to being glazed over and still wouldn't stop. Thought maybe there was still air in the RR so I was going to re-bleed them. Last minute I decided to install the wheel cylinder from the 77 since I already took the shoes and hardware. Sure enough that was the right call. The old cylinder was rusted solid. Bled the brake, put on the wheel and perfection. The car stops on a dime.

Next weekend I will be replacing the rear shocks with a pair I bought for the 77 but never installed. I will then feel better about driving the car. With the beyond shot shocks on the rear it is all over the road. I've driven the car for about 3-5 miles today so if it had any fuel leaks I'd know by now. I think it might have a slight drip on the oil pan but the oil pan wasn't perfect and had a slight leak before when it was in the 77. I might check it out eventually but for now not going to worry about it.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

PintoMan1


Again, Matt job well done. looks good, sounds good too. looks like you are well on your way to having a good driver. just a few more details and your good. I like the hub caps you have on it too, goes good with the white walls.


Glen
1973 pinto runabout

r4pinto



Before and after a bath. I need air in the tires and also longer valve stems in them as well. The wheel covers are from a 1984-85 Ford Tempo. Not correct for the car but I like them. Looks good with the white walls.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

I will let the video do the talking for me.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Thanks! I'm sure it will. Checked for fluid leaks and none from what I can tell. When I first tried to run the car the timing was so retarded it wouldn't stay running. Loosened the distributor and tried to set it but found I needed to pull the distributor to get more advance to hit the 17 degrees BTDC needed according to the sticker on the hood. I will get more pwer steering fluid to fill the reservoir since the 1.5 bottles I had wasn't enough. It's a bit whiney. Once I bleed the brakes I can run the transmission through the gears so I can check and top off the transmission as needed.

The car does need a new transmission pan gasket since it shows signs of leaking but I'll order that from Rockauto once I'm sure the rest of the car is fine.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dga57

I'm going to be out of town all day tomorrow but will be sure and check the site when I get back tomorrow night.  I'm excited so I KNOW you must be!  Hope everything goes okay!


Dwayne :)
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

r4pinto


I also repacked the RF wheel bearing and got the caliper slide greased up so it won't stick like the other one did. Brake hoses installed up front, and went to install a new hose at the rear when I saw a nice surprise. The hose is in great shape. It's actually a newer hose, and was probably replaced in 2008 when the previous owner had it last running. I also noticed the rear line was replaced as well so it's good to go. I will bleed the brakes all around with fresh fluid to insure I have no issues stopping. Tomorrow the brakes will be bled, tires installed and air added as needed, transmission fluid, power steering fluid, and coolant topped off as needed, and will then take the car for the first drive in almost 5 years. I do also need to reconnect the speedometer cable, as it did become disconnected from the back accidentally. Feels so good to know the car will be moving under her own power, and runs as well as she does.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

r4pinto

Here is an update that I am glad to do. The car is running and very smooth. I set the ignition timing and the car idles flawlessly at 800rpm. It actually starts up easier than my 2004 Impala.


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Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

74 PintoWagon

I hear ya, I've bought vehicles before with a pipe nightmare with anything from flex pipe to copper tubing, and hung with bailing wire, lol..
Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.