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1972 Runabout (GOING TO SCRAP BY 5/28)

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turbo 4 cyl and aod trans
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1971-1975 Pinto
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

coil spring install 79 pinto sedan

Started by zappid, April 20, 2012, 10:18:53 AM

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jwpauto

So we ended up using external spring compressors and binding the springs with ratchet straps. Had a heavy guy stand on the crossmember while we jacked up the car, secured the spindle and cut the binds.
This is a very sketchy way of doing it, but the spring compressors simply could not compress the spring enough to be installed.

Everything else pretty much went right together. Now both front and rear have upgraded brakes and 5x4 1/2 wheels.

The ride height is even right now front and rear, but you can see the springs are slightly bowed due to the spring rate. We'll see how it settles with the weight of the motor, we can remove and cut the springs again if necessary and the rear ride height can be set with the air shocks.






Reeves1

Same size / length as OEM will have your front end sitting too high, with a 302w.

I set the spring on the floor. Used a square & marked a line up the coils, then cut them down to 3 3/4" less than 6 full coils (circles).

You may need to go even less..... so do not torque the ball joint, as you may well have to remove the coil to cut more off.
Use a zip blade, NOT A TORCH !

jwpauto

I used the same M2 coils, have them cut to same size as stock springs that came out. I have replaced all the bushings and ball joints. As you can probably seem I'm doggone up the finish on the coils trying every which way to get them in...



Reeves1

My notes show the springs as M2 with 302w & A/C.
I cut them down to 3 & 3/4" short of 6 full coils.

With my B2 engine, which weighs more than a 302w, it looks like the ride height may be OK (still do not have the car done). It will settle over time as well.

My headers will add weight , over say exhaust manifolds, of light weight ones made for a 302w.
Mine have 2" 18ga tubes to 3 1/2" collectors .

Reeves1

I had forgotten about this topic....

I ended up putting the springs back in after the engine was in place. Jack up the lower arm & bolt lower spindle arm (ball joint).

Final measurement of springs in shop... will up-date later.

If you have yours all apart, best time to install all new bushings , ball joints & tie rod ends.

If installing an engine so you can jack it up is a pain, have a couple fat buddies stand in place of it  ;D

jwpauto

I'm completely stuck trying to get mine back together. I have a '73, I got the springs out by removing the spindle and completely lowering the lower control arm. The spring did not 'just drop out'. It took a little bit of love with a bar and it popped out. I bought stiffer Mustang II springs and had them cut down to the same size as the stock springs.

I tried using the spring compressor with 4 arms on the inside, but the bar does not stay straight enough to go back up through the upper shock mount hole. Using the tool feels rather dangerous as well. I even tried disassembling the tool and inserting the rod down through the access panel and top shock hole, then put the threaded end back on the bottom and tried compressing it up into the spring perch. After I started to get it compressed about an inch or 2, the tool began slipping and rotating on the spring. This did not feel safe.

I tried using the compression tool that goes on the outside of the spring and even though it won't clear the upper spring perch or lower control arm when fully compressed, I tried compressing the spring just enough to get it to clear the seat on the lower control arm. Once I got it on there I tried jacking up the arm under it, but with no motor or trans in the vehicle, the vehicle raised, rather than compressing the spring up into the upper seat.

I don't know of any shops around Cleveland that will compress and band the springs due to liabilities with that. Any suggestions?

Reeves1

ghost.....maybe not that much shipping, but it would more than double the price of the springs. Has on most of the new parts I've had sent up from the States.

82expghost

wow 300 for shipping? sry to hear that, good luck with the build
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Reeves1

I called Standens & we talked about what I'm doing with this project.
Decided to cut one coil off & install in the other side. All clearances looked good.
So I cut the other one as well.
Lowered the car onto the floor & stood on the rad support & jumped/bounced & the car (springs) acted like all will be perfect.
Will not know till the engine (etc) is all back in & test drive it.
No idea when that will happen.....lots of stuff to do before that will happen.
Will up-date at that time.

Reeves1

Quotelandrum springs

With shipping from the States they would end up $400 - $500 for a set.

82expghost

in the future if you ever want different better springs, give landrum springs a call, the techs up there race mini stocks, they will set you up with perfect springs for 100 bucks that fit with no cutting required, any spring rate you want practically
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Reeves1

Yes, fits up inside perfect. Measures the same as what came out & measures the same as a stock 72 spring.

No reply from Standens yet.

Pangra74

Did that spring even fit into the upper recess? Doesn't look like it from the pic.


joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

Reeves1

I got one side in. But I think the 8 coils are too much. They will need to be cut down to the 7 coils like the originals.
I sent these pictures to Standens asking their thoughts on this.

You can see the spring outward bulge makes it ride against the inside of the spring.





The spring also is up against the upper arm.




I know this is not my topic, but thought it a good place to post the pictures and my problems.
If not, let me know & I'll start another topic for this.


Pangra74

I hadn't read the entire thread. I guess if those are V8 springs they could be longer. Good to know when I do the V8 in my wagon.
I've always hated working with springs, even small ones. They're just a pain in the butt!!


Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

Reeves1

Looks to me mine would work the same, except for the extra coil I have.

I'll use a center compressor just the same. The B2 engine is a heavy beast & I need the ground clearance.
If it ends up too high, I can always cut the spring some later.

Pangra74

I've never had to use as spring compressor on my 74, and I've had them out twice. You just remove the spindle and struts and swing the lower arm all the way down and the spring just pops off the little lip on the lower control arm. Should be the same as my 74. getting it back in, I just use a long bar to get the spring back on the lip and jack the arm back up into place. See pics.


Joe
1974 Orange Runabout
1974 soon to be Cruisin' Wagon

zappid

So, it sounds like you can remove the old ones with the Macpherson compressor and you need to put the new ones in with the single, inner compressor?  Sorry, I guess I'm pretty confused...   I'd remove the lower control arm, but those bolts holding the strut are so rusted I'd rather try to skip the headache.  Thanks again for everyones help!

spyville

I just removed them from a 76 and the spring compressor fit in just one way. Notice the shaft of the tool comes out between the upper control arm and the control arm mount.
Proud Owner of the hardest working couch in America.

Reeves1

My new ones measure up the same as the blue 72 except they have one more coil.
Reason for one more coil is the V8 in a Mustang ll.

I'll take measurements of the arms to see if something was changed.....

OhSix9

reeves.
Are you sure you have the right springs. 82exp had the instructions right. there is almost no preload on the springs and i have never needed a spring compressor. they did change the suspension in 73 your 72 may be different
Modest beginnings start with the single blow of a horn man..    Now when you get through with this thing every dickhead in the world is gonna wanna own it.   Do you know anything at all about the internal combustion engine?

Virgil to Sid

Reeves1

Newer cars differ from my 72 ?
I just went out & held the spring in place. Lower arm is down as far as it will go. Still nearly 3 coils past the spring seat. (stock spring is one coil less than my new ones)
I have ordered the through the center spring compressor. Supposed to be in on Monday aft.


82expghost

i just jacked mine up by the arm, put a jack stand under the bumper suport, loosen the bottom ball joint nut, not all the way off. unbolt the shock and take it out. next hit the side of the nuckle at the bottom, not the joint, and the arm should come loose from the nuckle, then lower the jack after you take the nut off the ball joint. Also it does make it easier to unbolt the strut bar, after you lower the jack all the way down the spring will barley be in there, now stand on the lower arm and the spring should just fall out. then i did it in backwards order when i put my new springs in.
98 taurtus, now in heaven
82 exp, the race car, cancer took it away
77 pinto, weekend warrior
92 grand marquis, daily

Reeves1

If an auto store tells you the McPhearson (spelling ?) strut (outside of springs) will work to put springs into a Pinto, tell them they are full of BS !
Will not work.
I now have two types of these tools and they will not work.
You need the inside type spring compressors.
Spent huge money to find out.

I had my springs powder coated (they came like that, but semi gloss) & I now have one so barked up it needs re-coating.

Learn form my mistakes !

Reeves1

My springs (and I think stock springs) are too long to do like truk says. Plus if you compress them like that you be compressing them at an angle (ie: inside first) which can make them bow to the outside. Lots of engery there & you do not want them to pop out !
Without my engine etc in my car I wouldn't be able to jack the car up anyway.

In the past I had them squished and banded. I do not remember if it was 2 or 4 metal bands ?
I then put them in place. Bolt all back to gether, including the shock.
Cut each band & the bands pulled out OK.

QuoteThe compressor I was trying to use just had one bolt down the middle

Back in the 70s I had made one like that. Worked better than the tool I bought !

lowtruk

the easiest way to get a stock spring back in place is seat the top where it needs to go, then the bottom will be just a tiny bit longer than the lower seat. . with a jack under the to cont arm ready , use a pry bar and push the bottom back carefuly. it should pop into the back of that seat. then jack it up. I dont recal, does the pinto have a bolt on metal cover on the out side of the the spring tower like a maverick or mustang? if so bolt in in first so spring can not pop out
I would rather have a Ford Emblem shoved in my eye that to drive a Chevy

zappid

Thanks for the response, Reeves.. The compressor I was trying to use just had one bolt down the middle and kept hitting the top of the control arm... I'll have to get something like that to get them out....
So after they are banded, would you just put them in place and cut the banding or is there a technique to it?  Sorry for all the questions, I've never done a suspension before.... Thanks again, though, I appreciate the info!

Reeves1

Quote from: zappid on April 20, 2012, 02:55:23 PM
Thank you for the help... Reeves, could you possibly tell me how you used the compressor?  I tried a few times, but it doesn't seem to have enough room to get it out and couldn't find any info on the internet about it...

Thanks again everyone for your help

This is the tool I used to take the short springs out. They are 5 coils. New ones are 8 coils. Do not get this tool. It worked to get the short coils out, but will not work to get the new ones in (just tried).
Stock 72 Pinto has 7 coils.
To see the difference in my coils: http://www.fordpinto.com/general-pinto-talk/72-front-springs/

I will be taking mine into town & have a shop compress and metal band them to install the new ones.


dave1987

The strut is the metal bar that connects the lower arm to the frame.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

zappid

Thank you for the help... Reeves, could you possibly tell me how you used the compressor?  I tried a few times, but it doesn't seem to have enough room to get it out and couldn't find any info on the internet about it...

Thanks again everyone for your help