Mini Classifieds

Pinto for sale

Date: 04/19/2017 10:15 am
Need Clutch & Brake Pedal
Date: 12/23/2016 06:16 pm
2.3 front sump oil pan
Date: 07/24/2018 03:17 pm
1978 ford pinto carb
Date: 02/04/2018 06:09 pm
t-5 2.3 trans and new flywheel cluch and pressure plate though out bearing for sale
Date: 09/09/2018 03:22 pm
'71,'72,or'73 small Ford v8 Pinto
Date: 01/23/2017 07:41 am
Great Cruise wagon

Date: 12/17/2016 03:39 pm
WTB: Factory air cleaner and fan shroud 1971 2.0
Date: 02/05/2020 11:06 am
72' hatchback parts wanted
Date: 08/25/2019 02:57 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,573
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,185
  • Online ever: 1,681 (March 09, 2025, 10:00:10 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 618
  • Total: 618
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

2.3 carbed turbo blow thru 2bbl

Started by ryan1, April 18, 2012, 10:35:45 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

pinto_one

I have tried both , EFI is the way to go if you can , but you can use the blow through but it has its share of problem ,  on the cheep a zoop through worked the best on the cheep , but you must use a turbo that has the seals for vacume on the carb side , did some early ones in the late 70s , later when the first turbo 2.3 in the mustang came out , worked at the ford dealer back then , those work kind of well for what they were ,  got to remember that they had to pass smog and last long enough to be out of warranty , they had a few issues but taken care of if you knew what to do , one was they were too lean and turning up the boost would blow head gaskets or melt pistons , the stock turbo 79 to 80 had forged 9 to 1 ratio pistons , the later 94 up efi had 8 to 1 , better head gasket , the turbo carb was specal , it had a remote power valve to keep the engine from leaning out too much when in boost , they mounted the carb on the intake side between the turbo very close to cut down turbo lag , I still stumble across these that are still running , a good test that the old 2.3 is a very good engine ,
76 Pinto sedan V6 , 79 pinto cruiser wagon V6 soon to be diesel or 4.0

Wittsend

Regardless of what someone who likes to fiddle around and be different achieves (hey I get it, I like to do that too) an EFI setup over a blow through carb setup is just so much more practical. If it is being done for personal accomplishment - great. But otherwise if it is being done because one has "some" of the parts and they think it will be cheaper..., I doubt it. The "price" of difficulty and frustration may not be worth it.

Julee

sounds like a good plan, i am currently building a 2.3 turbo motor from a 79 mustang pace car to put in my 78 bobcat wagon, basically the same set up you are looking to do. good luck
the best protein skimmers
 is real

65ShelbyClone

Quote from: ryan1 on April 18, 2012, 10:35:45 PMi have build many turbo set-up on fuel injected cars/trucks, ranging from fmu set-ups to megasquirts, small turbos to big turbos,ect,ect but never a carbed one.

Then why start with a carburetor now? I would (or would have in 2012 when this thread started) get an MS-I v2.2 kit for ~$150 and go with a blow-through TBI setup on the stock (or similar) intake. I might do that myself with an MSII v3.0 just because I already have the ECU.

A new fuel pump is going to be necessary either way and, IMO, EFI does everything a carburetor can, only a lot better. You ought to have a wideband O2 sensor for tuning regardless of the induction, so factor in $200 for that whether you use a carb or EFI.
'72 Runabout - 2.3T, T5, MegaSquirt-II, 8", 5-lugs, big brakes.
'68 Mustang - Built roller 302, Toploader, 9", etc.

bbobcat75

that is what I am currently trying to build have a 85-86 tc motor, and going to use the head off my 78 wagon and the intake and exhaust off the 79 2.3t mustang. its been a slow process due to funds and time right now but just gathering all the parts is half the fun!! just picked up a roller cam for my head a week ago!!

good luck with your build!!!
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

HiPopinto

You may want to go over to Turbo Ford.org and check out Joe Laramee

He has 2 pintos both are blow through turbo 4 cylinders

His "street" car is running 9 second quarters

His "race" car is running low 8's

It is a cool page as well

If I were doing this I would find an EFI Turbo engine and bolt the proper Carb stuff to it

The EFI engine has forged internals and is already a very tough engine

Good luck

Pinturbo75

when I first swapped my red pinto I did the swap to fuel injected turbo 5sp complete for less than 500 bucks....I  had a whole car to pluck parts from....
75 turbo pinto trunk, megasquirt2, 133lb injectors, bv head, precision 6265 turbo, 3" exhaust,bobs log, 8.8, t5,, subframe connectors, 65 mm tb, frontmount ic, traction bars, 255 lph walbro,
73 turbo pinto panel wagon, ms1, 85 lb inj, fmic, holset hy35, 3" exhaust, msd, bov,

amc49

Blow thru and 'on a budget' are two diametrically opposed things................you're only making it harder.

ryan1


dga57

Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

ryan1

could someone move this to the turbo section.

ryan1

never got around to doing this yet, other projects,life,ect.
so has anyone in the mean time did a blow thru turbo set up with a 5200

jeff simmons

Believe it or not, when I rebuilt my engine about 12 years ago now I wasn't planning on a turbo. I saw the turbo coupe sitting on the side of the road I ask the owner and he said you want it go get it. That being said I'm running forged flat tops, The head has been milled .080 And I haven't even backed the timing off any. Iv'e had this set up for 4 years now. Last summer I finaly changed the plugs and no signs of detination. I know that much compression and timing should be devistating to my engine, I don't know why it works so well. In the beginning I just wanted to try the turbo out then work my way up to fuel injection. Last summer we was driving to a car show about a 130 miles away and I got a crack in the oil line to the turbo after fixing we was going to be late so we was driving about 80mph right on the edge of fuel starvation about 3# of boost and we got 27 mpg. On the stampede trip I'm planning to drive normal I'm hoping to get 30mpg.

fast64ranchero

If you don't have the money to do a blow thru correcty, then you don't have the money to replace the engine when you burn it down, if your lucky you'll melt a plug or pop the head gasket. Not trying to big an azz, I just want you to know your asking for trouble going cheap with a blow through. You'll need a EFI pump, a boost ref. regulator, and a fuel return system.

I wouldn't trust a stock fuel pump to 5 psi, and that's with it boost ref.
71 Pro-Street pinto 2.3T powered
72 Treasure Valley Special 26K miles pinto
72 old V-8 parts Pinto
73 pinto, the nice one...

jeff simmons

Yes, I,m running a blow thru with a 350 holley It runs very well,excellrates very smooth. I'm just running a stock fuel pump so It will starve for fuel when your boost gets up over 3# for very long. From a stop light It will run with a mustang in 1st gear and part of 2 second before it staves for fuel. After the stampede i'm going boost reference the stock fuel pump just to see how much it helps for now. My set up came from an 85 turbo coupe. I relocated the batery,had to cut a little of the inner fender for the turbo, I drilled a hole in the oil pan and welded a 1/8 in.plate with a 1/2 in. pipe fitting over the hole for the oil return line. Then I made my own hat to cover the carb. then run a piece of radiator hose between the turbo and carb. I didn't ask anyone for advice because most would say It wouldn't work well I'm glad I tried it. And right now i'm getting 27mpg. Oh I wouldn't be afraid to use the motorcraft.

racer99

A buddy of mine in So.Tx. has a 350 Holley bt with a
6 speed behind his 2.3T. It works well(over 400 last time
I talked to him.).

ryan1

anyone else do blowthru on motorcraft carb?

ryan1

 im surprised there is so much love for the draw thru, anyone on here running a blow thru?
im still undecided on which style i will run, but still leaning towards blow thru.

also i have heard some guys that run the holley 350 2bbl with a blowthru set-up (not necessarily 2.3's but other motors 4's and 6 cylinders) seem to have had good results, i do have a 2150a carb (369cfm) its from a 1982 stang 5.0 4 speed, that is a nother option.

Srt

Back in the dark ages I was running a draw thru on a 2 liter originally ising the 5200 rejetted with h2o injection & 20psi boost, stock fuel pump. Issues I ran into were a prolonged warm up to normal running temp due to the carb being located so far from the stock intake & a bit of bad fuel distribution due to the stock intake as well as a hot intake charge at high boost & under load which caused detonation despite h2o inj & carb jetting.  I got hold of an equal length runner intake (a ford europe item) & stuck on a rejetter fomoco 2bbl from a ford truck. Was able to eliminate the occassional melted piston (welln OK, it was more than occassional!) As well as extend the ability to run full throttle under load with over 20lbs boost but still couldn't use 4th at the strip because of detonation. Never had any head gasket problems just needed better fuel distribution. Car was running low 13's at the time (1972-73) with 185-13's thru the muffler & never using 4th gear. It got good mileage too! I like the draw thru setup but FI is the way to goIMHO
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

M0ABPinto

I'm running a 2.3T from a 79 Mercury 10PSI, MSD6BTM ignition, gonna bump it up to 15PSI here shortly when we swap it to a manual trans and an electric fuel pump.  Only issues I have now are fuel starvation
A cloud of dust, disco music and a sense of impending doom...

Srt

might run like crap until it's thoroughly warmed up. you have to watch out for excessive intake charge temps.
the only substitute for cubic inches is BOOST!!!

fast64ranchero

Draw through with water, meth or water/meth injection, way easier, will make the same or close power, no intercooler piping, no intercooler.  way easier for a carb setup....
71 Pro-Street pinto 2.3T powered
72 Treasure Valley Special 26K miles pinto
72 old V-8 parts Pinto
73 pinto, the nice one...

racer99

Doing a draw thru as we speak.
780 Holley/T64/water inj/2.3T
with 3.5 exhaust,C4/brake,8.8 with
4.10s and 8.5x26 MTs.

A friend has a 2280 VW drawthru
making 512/4??.

fast64ranchero

Never done a blow through 2.3 but have done a blow through Ford inline 250 six, 497hp and 501 foot lbs to the ground....
I would suggest going the draw through route,  your asking for trouble boost ref. the stock fuel pump, you'll also need to drill the power valve circuit to allow you to run a small primary main jet, (if you go the blow through way).

Draw through all you do is put that stock carb on jet it and go
71 Pro-Street pinto 2.3T powered
72 Treasure Valley Special 26K miles pinto
72 old V-8 parts Pinto
73 pinto, the nice one...

ryan1

Quote from: racer99 on April 19, 2012, 08:01:31 AM
Go to www.turboforums.com and check the carb section.
Also google Hanger18 Fabrications for a carb build.

I have a 306/carb bt/T70 Zephyr.

i have done some searching on there also, was hoping someone on here might have ran a similar set-up with
the motorcraft 2bbl, and or built a budget minded turboed 2.3 blow thru carbed car.
i would be even interested in info on draw thru set-ups, just for the sake of learning, but im pretty dead set on the blow thru deal.

any info and or links related to this would be appreciated also.

bbobcat75

sounds like a good plan, i am currently building a 2.3 turbo motor from a 79 mustang pace car to put in my 78 bobcat wagon, basically the same set up you are looking to do. good luck
eric
1975 mercury bobcat 2.8 auto
1975 ford pinto - drag car - 2.3l w/t5 trans - project car

racer99

Go to www.turboforums.com and check the carb section.
Also google Hanger18 Fabrications for a carb build.

I have a 306/carb bt/T70 Zephyr.

ryan1

looking to boost a 78 2.3 carbed motor.
here are list of the plans.
stock 5200 2bbl, with a solid float, or one that will not collapse.
small t25 or t3 turbo.
only 7 psi.
boost ref. the stock mech. fuel pump.
maybe lock timing for not much advance.
build a simple up pipe off the stock manifold, a carb hat and the pluming/piping.

i have build many turbo set-up on fuel injected cars/trucks, ranging from fmu set-ups to megasquirts, small turbos to big turbos,ect,ect but never a carbed one.
i want to do this and do it on a budget, with mostly left over parts from past projects.
my biggest questions are geared towards the fuel set-up and/or modding the carb for blow thru, i have not messed with alot of carbs in the past mostly efi set-ups.

so if anyone has any feedback about doing a blow thru carbed set-up on a 2.3 it would be much appreciated.