Mini Classifieds

Plug Or Cover For Hatch Hinge Bolt For 1979
Date: 05/28/2017 03:20 pm
1973 Bobcat Cruzin Wagon for Sale $4000 obo

Date: 04/13/2018 11:30 am
1980 Pinto taillights
Date: 12/26/2017 03:48 pm
Need Mustang II Manual Transmission Mount
Date: 04/21/2017 02:03 pm
1980 pinto/bobcat floors
Date: 07/24/2018 08:11 pm
sport steering wheeel
Date: 10/01/2020 10:58 pm
1978 need kick panels and rear hatch struts and upper and lower mounts
Date: 11/29/2018 10:26 am
Trailer Hitch - 73 Pinto Wagon
Date: 02/04/2018 08:26 am
74 hood
Date: 07/03/2017 03:46 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 1,292
  • Online ever: 2,670 (May 09, 2025, 01:57:20 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 559
  • Total: 559
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Pinto V6

Started by Farmboy, April 23, 2005, 09:29:06 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

crazyhorse

I hadda C-3 fail in my Pinto shortly after I got it. I popped out the c3& crammed in a c4. When I fired it up there was a BIG difference in performance I hadn't counted on. The tranny is from an 86 Cougar XR-7 Turbo (The car it came from currently has a 460/c6)
How to tell when a redneck's time is up: He combines these two sentences... Hey man, hold my beer. Hey y'all watch this!
'74 Runabout, stock 2300,auto  RIP Darlin.
'95 Olds Gutless "POS"
'97 Subaru Legacy wagon "Kat"

dirt track demon

No matter what Ford claims to have put in what,  I'm just happy mines a C-4 :D
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

wagonmaster

I've owned three V6 Pintos, 2-'77s and 1-'79. Both of the '77s had C3s in them. The '79 has the C4. I assumed that may have been because Ford listed the panel delivery as a truck for vehicle type and used the heavier duty trans. I have also bought two V6s with transmissions and they both came with C3s. I have also looked at several Pintos that I was considering buying over the last twenty years+ and I never found one equipped with the V6 that had a C4. I'm in CA and I don't know if it may have had something to do with meeting the smog requirements out here, but this is what my experience has been.
Brien - wagonmaster
'85 LTD LX
'85 LTD Squire wagon

dirt track demon

Quote from: bigh4th on April 25, 2005, 09:22:18 PM


The best thing you can do with a c3 is sell it to someone else.

-Harry

Now you got me giggling and laughing.
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

Pintony

Hey Harry,
I find that thise supposed tune up books are so generalised that I just can't trust anything I read in them.
The C3 did come in the Pinto V6 in 78-79. They were phasing out the C4 by then. By the end of 79 only the c3 remained.
From Pintony

bigh4th

See, now ya'll done got me all excited.  I just went out to check my 76 parts wagon and sure enough, the trans code is "v".  That sucks because i have a few c4's laying around too.

The best thing you can do with a c3 is sell it to someone else.

-Harry

dirt track demon

I havent been to sleep since saturday night, so it could just be me. 
  As far as ford and what they say they put in certain models and years, goes...  I wouldnt be surprised to someday look under a ford and see a turbomatic 350.  lol.
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

bigh4th

I could've sworn i read in my chiltons manual that they only came with the c3.  I'm probably wrong though, especialy considering how ford like to put 20 different parts on one model in one year.

when i said they didn't want the pinto out performing the mustang II, i was mainly talking about the fact that you could only get an auto with the 2.8. 

Hopefuly I don't come off as a know-it-all either, cause i'm not trying to.

-Harry

Pintony

Hey DTD,
I did not take your post in a negative way.
How about anybody else?????
I'm usually the one that comes off sounding like a know it all.
Actually "I DO KNOW IT ALL"
I just do not know what I'm saying. ;D

I had a long response to this topic typed up and the phone rang. When I finally hit "post" my login had expired.
So another post of valueable info LOST forever!!!!
From Pintony

dirt track demon

Quote from: dirt track demon on April 25, 2005, 05:22:32 PM
I'll back you up,  it says in everything i ever read that the c-4 was the Only offering for the v-6.  Plus i don't see how a c-4 would make the car any faster than a c-3 anyway.  there is only a .01 difference in 1st and 2nd between the 2.
  As someone else is fond of saying, "just my 2 cents worth".

  wow, after getting pintony's response to this post, I came back and reread it,  I kinda came off like an @$$.  Sorry guys.
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

dirt track demon

Ok,  so i guess i should throw my backup c-3 away, i have one layin around in case of emergency c-4 failure,  wasn't aware of any torque multiplication differences.  Could that problem be in the torque conv, and not the tranny itself.  dont know much about the internal workings of an automatic.  I was a machinist at a transmission remanufacturer for 2 years. but I only messed with the pumps and drums and planetary's. 
  Anybody want to buy a C-3 for pinto $50.
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

Pintony

Hey DTD,
IF you have never driven a STOCK Pinto with a C3 you wouldn't understand how SLOW they are.
The C3 uses more HP to run and does not have the Torque Multipication of the C4 tranny.
Also the C3 cost about Quadruple to have rebuilt Vs. C4 trannys.
I do not understand how Ford ever figured they would hold up in a Turbo 2.3????
Even with the De-Tuned CPU?????
from Pintony

dirt track demon

I'll back you up,  it says in everything i ever read that the c-4 was the Only offering for the v-6.  Plus i don't see how a c-4 would make the car any faster than a c-3 anyway.  there is only a .01 difference in 1st and 2nd between the 2.
  As someone else is fond of saying, "just my 2 cents worth".
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

Pintony

Hello Harry,
I believe Ford did put C-4 trannys behind the V6.
At least in the 75-77 years.
Somebody back me up on this one?????
Anyway my V-6 77 C-wagon has the C-4 and door code W
From Pintony
Hey Farmboy,
The V6 started in the U.S. in the Mercury Capri.
2600cc
Go to this link to find out more.
http://www.teamblitz.com/

bigh4th

2.8 pintos were only offered with the c3 transmission, sadly.  Guess they didn't want the little pinto to out-perform the mustang II.

-Harry

dirt track demon

If its a v-6, unless somebody did something really weird, it is a 2.8 liter. Should be a c-4 transmission and an 8" rear end under it. From what ive seen it will probably have 3.00 to 1 gears in it.  It will run pretty good.  Buy a set of 3.55's from speedway and it will run realllllllly  good.  Have fun.
Favorite place to race:on the xbox

Fomoco's biggest achievement:
The PINTO!!

Fomoco's biggest mistake:
Not offering a V-8 Pinto!!!!!!!

Farmboy

   Was at a friends house a few weeks back and saw a 76 runabout up for sale, being a WA. St. car it had the mossy green tint tint to it. I have one question? It has a V6 in it but what size. Did they come with a V6 in 1976? If so, it has a auto. trans., which tranny would it be. The people wern't home but the neighbor's said the car has'nt move in about 6 mo. the For sale sign said 600.00 OBO. Were the V6 good motor. Something you get a little more power.
  BTW  If any of you are going to put a carpet kit in your car, DO  IT, I put mine in last weekend, and oh does it make a differnce, just like riding in a new car. ;D ;D


  I do what the voices in my Pinto tell me to do




74 Pinto Wagon
71 Runabout (parts car)