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72 Pinto Wagon for sale

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79-80 fenders, hood, rallye wheels, light buckets, etc, C3 trans
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1978 RUNABOUT

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72' hatchback parts wanted
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

New car !

Started by Reeves1, June 30, 2011, 07:47:57 AM

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Reeves1

Engine finally found it's way home !
Head scratching on how/what to do about the alt.
I have the short water pump (gives me another inch & a half clearance). But no parts are made to move the alt back, on a BOSS 302.




Reeves1

Ready for shipping home...


Reeves1

FYI..... the engine didn't have a windage tray when on the dyno. With the new Milodon pan & windage tray it will bump the HP up to 483.
If for some reason I want even more, I can change up from the 750 DP to an 850 DP and get over 500 HP out of this build.
The 750 will have better street manners though.

Reeves1

Day early !
I'll quote what builder had to say...plus video link.

quote:
345 Cu. In. pump gas 240 .590 cam Engine. I feel that the most important Dyno numbers are the BMEP,It tells you how efficent the engines is.Reeves ran in the 170s.Modern CHI/ AirFlow Research
head type engines run in those numbers.Very Happy.Mini Plenuim made peak Tq.@5500 423.H.P.@
6500 478 The Stock Intake really runs well.Tq.@4800 403.H.P.@6700 465  E-BOSS Tq@5100 416.
H.P.@6500 473  The E-Boss runs Very close to the Mini Plenuim,and has the best average..The OEM
intake really holds its own,and was the only one that liked to rev.to 7000RPMS and only lost 13HP
to the mini and held its Tq up to the E-Boss!! All Manifolds lost Tq,and gained NO H.P. with 1inch open spacers.E-Boss intake fit best on the engine with the OEM style Felpro1248 gasket. Checkout the videos..Hope this info helps..
Kenny@Mascar
http://s408.photobucket.com/albums/pp166/enny043kenny/REEVES%20345/?action=view&current=MVI_3969.mp4


Reeves1

My engine is on the right. Using an electric water pump on the dyno.
The 2 intakes in front are the E-BOSS on the left & OEM on the right.
Ready to rock !


Reeves1

http://www.milodon.com/oil-pans/street-oil-pans-ford73.asp

Just ordered the above pan, bolts & pick up.
If it doesn't work on the B2 I'll use it on the next build with the 302w.

Reeves1

Dyno runs on Friday !

Going to run with three different intakes.

Mini plenuim,E-Boss and the OEM
intake.
Will post results when done.


Reeves1

Rockers were changed out because the comp cam (stainless) ones had 1.68 ratio.
Blue ones are 1.73.

Engine is getting closer to dyno time. The pan with the "hump" in it was no good for this. The rods were touching the hump. He put another pan on for the dyno run.






Reeves1









Note:
Did not notice till I posted the pics....first pic has a blue rocker. Not mine.
My rockers are a grey/sliver comp cam roller rocker.
He is building 4 B2s at the same time.....

Reeves1

Crank & cam set in & adjusted ring gap.
Machine block for one piece main seal.






Reeves1









Bearing clearance and crank end play set.


dave1987

MMMMMMMMMMM..............(wipes up drool)
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

Reeves1

Work on the heads started today.









All new stainless valves & hardened exhaust seats.

Reeves1


Reeves1

Engine has been sent to Mascar in CA for the build. Will be back in May.
Will not be on the road too soon though. Lots of other things need to be finished first. Like headers & body work.

Sold the 2x4 intake.....

Reeves1

Lots to do before it will be driven again.
Have to get a new bell housing & test fit it. New fly wheel & clutch.
Get headers built.
Get engine re-built.
Some body work & paint.
New tires & rims. Rear will be Hoosier Pro Street Radial 29x18.50x15.
New front springs & shocks.
New front brake lines.
New carbs.......

beaner

looks good to me run it ;D

brad :)

Reeves1

Dropped the B2 in today. The carbs in the picture are backwards. Even less room when installed the right way (for SBFs with this intake).



New ones are 3/4" shorter though.

http://performanceparts.com/part/Holley/0-1850C

I had plans to replace them anyway......

Reeves1

Finally got the cam info. Going to have a lumpy idle !

Ford cam # DOZX-6250-B
In/Exh lift 0.589
Duration 324

Scott Hamilton

Quote from: johnbigman2011 on December 27, 2011, 12:43:10 AM
All of them in this post. I can go to other post and see everything fine, but here I get the little white box with the X in it.

John, I'm seeing them fine on this end with firefox, safari and IE9- Sounds like your browser can't load photos from photobucket-- can you go to the direct link provided?

Sweet Pinto by the way- SWEET!
Yellow 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
Green 72, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
White 73, Runabout, 2000cc, 4Spd
The Lemon, the Lime and the Coconut, :)

Reeves1

That is weird.... did you right click & choose show picture ?
Might be time for a disk clean up on your computer ?

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v140/DerrickJB/My%201972%20Pinto/?start=all

The above link should take you to my photo bucket account. I loaded the original pictures of my car, when it was for sale in MI. Plus a few others. I have more to load over time...

johnbigman2011

All of them in this post. I can go to other post and see everything fine, but here I get the little white box with the X in it.
1972 Trunk Model..... Yeller Feller
1979 Wagon Turbo.... 85 2.3 Turbo
1923 T- Bucket ...... 2.0 Pinto Powered
F 250 Redneck Lincoln .... Pinto Picker upper

Reeves1

John - which pictures can you not see ?

johnbigman2011

Man, I wish I could see the pictures. I looked at the web site and that is one nice ride. Somebody has put allot of work in it. For Sure. Change the subject if you don't mind what do I need to  load on my computer to see the pictures??
1972 Trunk Model..... Yeller Feller
1979 Wagon Turbo.... 85 2.3 Turbo
1923 T- Bucket ...... 2.0 Pinto Powered
F 250 Redneck Lincoln .... Pinto Picker upper

Reeves1

Well, the engine is home !




Very pleased with what I found so far (still missing the paper work on the engine).






Reeves1

Getting ready for the new engine.....(BOSS 302 was already taken in AB)


Reeves1

Just one quick measurement one day & it is about 19" - 20" from the inside of the tub to the inside of the lip.
I'll have time this winter to get it all figured out.

Pinto5.0

Quote from: Reeves1 on August 06, 2011, 05:04:38 AMQuick measurement , looks like I can go 19" - 20" wide on the rear & still be under the car.
Plus a bunch of other changes.....

Leave yourself room for the tire to go up on the quarter panel side when hitting bumps. To keep it low & not hit the quarters usually means tucking the tires 3 or 4 inches behind the wheel lip or jacking the rear sky high so tires dont rub.
'73 Sedan (I'll get to it)
'76 Wagon driver
'80 hatch(Restoring to be my son's 1st car)~Callisto
'71 half hatch (bucket list Pinto)~Ghost
'72 sedan 5.0/T5~Lemon Squeeze

Reeves1

Quote from: Pinto Pro on August 06, 2011, 02:08:49 AM
A dual quad Boss 302!! that is pretty sick!!..I'll bet that intake manifold is worth a small fortune.
She ought to run real good!!

It's a 70s Drag Pack engine . Getting it from the fan to trans tail end. Including the oil cooler.
Trans is a B/W T-10 with Hurst shifter.
Going to be a fun car to drive !

I'll be making a bunch of changes. After the engine gets here in Sept or Oct I'll then start the search for new tires & rims. Quick measurement , looks like I can go 19" - 20" wide on the rear & still be under the car.
Plus a bunch of other changes.....

Pinto Pro

A dual quad Boss 302!! that is pretty sick!!..I'll bet that intake manifold is worth a small fortune.
She ought to run real good!!