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72 pinto

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1979 pinto
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

I want a Pinto, help me please!

Started by pintointerestedfreak, June 23, 2011, 09:46:45 AM

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RSM

I think DreamBean is on to something LOL

Cheeseliner

You can still find very nice low mile Pintos all around. A gal here in topeka just found a 71 with 21K original miles. Its got the original 1600, but it runs like a champ. Theres also a gal in Lawrence that has a 74 wagon with 52K miles on it. (she's wanting 4K for it tho). If your not a mechanic and serious about getting one, get a stock one with low miles. Mine (75 hatch) accually had the letters "MPG" on the side of it before i painted it. Good luck in finding one! Kenny
75 Pinto Hatchback Runabout. 2.3 EFI Turbo Charged Pinto with C4 and 8 inch 4.11 locker, Front mount IC, NOS, Walbro/T-bars/ Drag Stars

Bigtimmay

70 mph is right around 112 km/h and I'm sure that's not the limit of a stock motor its just a nice highway cruising speed.

As for how much would it cost to swap in a 2.3turbo well depends on how much of the work you can do yourself.  I payed 1000 for a 1988 thunderbird turbocoupe which is where i got the motor,trans,wiring harness,ecu and some other parts out of.  The 255 lph fuel pump cost 120 and I'm upgrading the whole fuel system so ill have 300 in my fuel cell and close to 300 in all new fuel lines. So right now I'm around $1720 into my project plus the price of the car which i got a steal on my bobcat 700 bucks cause the guy that had it just had a heartattack and couldn't keep it. If you cant wire up fuel injection yourself,weld, do mechanic work then your gonna have to pay someone to do this stuff to finish the swap. I did all the work on my car myself but i have been doing this stuff since i was 14 with my dad and brother.

I'm building my car to go fast at a drag strip and sometimes just drive on the street for fun. If i cant get it to go fast enough with the turbo 4. Ill just swap in a fuel injected 5.7 LS1 out of a corvette or z28 camaro and turbo that.
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

DreamBean

Go Ford, Go Fast Or Go Home!

pintointerestedfreak

thanks a lot man!

So as you can see I am new into this, so could you tell me how km/h is if you have the original motor of 70MPH? Like 110 km/h, isn't it?

I would prefer to have the 140 MPH so I have the option to run faster. So how much does it cost to put a 2.3 turbo? The 2.3 turbo is a motor? The model i want has a 2.0 motor i supose is that?

I am looking for resistante and speed. I don't mean like i want to run at 225 km/h but at least have the option if I want to ride at 140 km/h or something. Besides, if you pull up to 100km/h  a car which limit is 110 km/h is kind of dangerous for the engine, isn't it?

I woul like to adaptate the pinto as if it was a current car acording to resistance and speed. Evrybode tells me not to buy an old car because is all problems and is not woth it, but I think if you resturate the mechanics it has to work like a nowadays car, am i wrong?

Is it possible to use just the exterior of the pinto and change everything whitin it? How much would that cost?

Sorry for all the questions! I really don't have idea of this and I want to learn

Bigtimmay

Thats 70 MPH not KM/H the original motors work fine for daily drivers. The 2.3 is my preference and it was used from late 74 all the way to 94 in tons of different kinds of cars they still used the same lima motor from 95-2000 but it wasnt a 2.3 anymore it was turned into a 2.5 liter engine.
The only thing i would do if i was getting a close to stock pinto for a daily driver would be make sure its a manual car and then swap in a 5 speed trans in place of the 4 speed. 

Plus later on if you decide the pinto isnt quick enough you can always do what im doing to my bobcat and swapping in a 2.3 turbo.  The car i pulled my 2.3 turbo out of with a 5 speed and 3.55 rear gears has a top speed of 140 MPH or around 225 KM/H!
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

pintointerestedfreak

are u saying that Pinto runs at 70 km/h?? how could I improve that? that's too slow!

phils toys

my wagon has the 2.3 and 95,000 miles on it and will cruse down the highway at 70 and get about 24 mpg.
just a few weeks ago another  member here drove her 71 with a 1600 motor  from california to pa and back with no problems the 70,s cars were some of the first fuel  minded cars.  the late 60's cars were all about speed  not fuel.
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

RSM

Talk to the guy about the car. It doesn't sound like it needs an engine. If the mileage is accurate...it's got a lot of life left in it but thats a decision you will have to make unless you know a mechanic that will check it out for you. Good luck!!!

pintointerestedfreak

so... would I need a new engine? 4 cylinder is way to old, iinit?

RSM

I did not know that. I guess you can still learn something new every day lol

baflinn

Quote from: RSM on June 23, 2011, 12:27:43 PM
I'd go take a look at it. It will have a 2.3 and not a 2.0  see what he'll take. It looks really good from the pics.

I have a '74 and it has a 2.0. Early models were still made with the 2.0. - BruceF
Liquidating all Pinto related parts.

Current list can be found here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bruceflinn/8007178278/in/photostream

pintointerestedfreak

but this car needs a new engine, innit?

in that case, which one would be appropiate and for how much? more or less


RSM

I'd start at $2000 but thats me...

RSM

I'd go take a look at it. It will have a 2.3 and not a 2.0  see what he'll take. It looks really good from the pics.

pintointerestedfreak

hey guys!

what do u think about this one? Would I have to change the engine for a new one? I really LOVE this car, it would be perfect for me:

http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/cto/2452940858.html

RSM

Pintos can be found that are in very very nice condition...but they do cost a bit more. If you find a basic daily driver that needs an engine or transmission the costs aren't bad. Even daily drivers that need no work aren't too expensive. On craigslist here in Phoenix was a Pinto hatchback for $1800 which from what I could see was a decent price. Check Craigslist in your area and here on the website. There is always a deal out there somewhere.

pintointerestedfreak

thanks a lot for the quick response people!

So you mean that if i find a non restoured pinto car in well condition, I dont need to change the engine? is the old one usefull? doesn't it consume a lot of gas?

Ok when i find one I'll let you know, but just to start making my own mental outline, how much would it be to find a well conserved Pinto but just needs the engine to be changed? I mean more or less.

Like around 8.000 $?

thanks!

Norman Bagi

Most of what you are asking depepnds on the condition of the Pinto you buy. There is a beautiful yellpw wagon on ebay right now that apppears to not need much of anything.  If you are looking for a specific model, you will be looking for some time until what you want appears.  Not too many Pinto's left to choose from.

As far as restorations are concerned,, once again it depends on the condition of the car.  Suspension, Engine, body work, interior.  If all of these are bad it will get more costly than finding one in great shape and paying for it.  If only one of these things needs replacement, it is far less and once again.  It will depend on what you want to do to the car.

My suggestion is to look for a car, if you find one, come back and ask what it is worth.  Also let us know what it needs and we can help you decide if it is the car for you right there or if you need to keep looking.

Good luck and hope to see you on the road somewhere.

pintointerestedfreak

I am looking for a Ford Pinto for daily use. That don't cause me any problem. I understand that old cars have old engines and they consume a lot of gasoline and money not like the current engines, am I wrong? Also the Pinto has a 100 km/h limit, i would like to have like current cars, almost like 150 km/h, is that possible?

I repeat I am new here and I need to learn all about cars! Just asking for advice  :read:

RSM

My question is...why would want to change what works? The Ford 2.3 is a great and very durable engine not to mention they get very good gas mileage when tuned properly and maintained. Sounds more like your looking for a project car.....just my opinion.

pintointerestedfreak

Hello everyone,

I am interested on buying a Ford Pinto, that's why I am here. I want the car for daily use, not to show up or colection. I am aware that I need to change the engine as the 4 cylinder one that the pinto has is way too old.

I am not into cars, I don't know much about this field and actually this will be my first car. The reason I want the Pinto is because I hate new cars, I don't like their desings and I do care of the asthetics point. This will be like my baby for many years and I don't care if it takes me a while to find the proper one.

I have several questions that you guys might help me with.

Which is the best engine that fit with the Pinto?
Around how much would it cost the whole thing?
What type of restaurations does the Pinto need to be used as a daily car? just changin the engine for a new one?
Any other advice I should know about it?

Any help will be much appreciated! Thanks in advance for reading!