Mini Classifieds

I have a 1977 Cobra body lots of parts here
Date: 04/12/2017 06:57 pm
Cruiser Dash Gauges
Date: 12/04/2016 11:50 am
Drivers side door panel Orange
Date: 05/22/2018 01:54 pm
78 hatchback

Date: 03/12/2023 06:50 pm
Tire needed p185/80r13
Date: 12/31/2017 09:08 pm
Pinto interior parts for Cruisen / Rallye wagon
Date: 01/19/2021 03:56 pm
1980 hood needed
Date: 04/23/2020 10:41 pm
2.3 turbo intake (lower)

Date: 07/15/2020 09:29 pm
Want side to side luggage rack rails for '75 Pinto wagon
Date: 08/30/2018 12:59 am

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,896
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,584
  • Total Topics: 16,270
  • Online today: 116
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 59
  • Total: 59
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Official 1980 Turbo Pinto Project Thread.

Started by don33, June 11, 2011, 04:35:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

JohnW

Looking good. I was talking about how the tube didn't appear capped and it looked like it wasn't possible to do so after the metal you added. I really want to make a new rear subframe later so I'm going to have to leave room for that. I want box tubing all the way back and I want to add a hitch receiver and fuel cell. That'll have to wait a while though.
-

don33

got the 1X2 tubing welded into the end of the subframe and angled up the the plate on the floor. triangulated, its strong now. still some sealing up to do but its almost there.

don33

yep, not done welding yet, when its done it will all be sealed up and a couple of braces added, still a work in progress.

JohnW

The way that's attached underneath doesn't look very structural and the end of the tubing is open. Might want to seal that and not leave places for dirt and moisture to get trapped.
-

don33

ok, got a little work done over the weekend. first I cut a piece of 1/16 plate and welded it in on top where the subframe connector goes through the body sheet metal.



not quite done yet, but then on the bottom I welded some 1/8 plate to tie together the end of the subframe, body sheet metal and the front spring mounting point.  this should tie everything together to give the added strength and rigidity needed to handle the expected increase in HP.




don33

I've got an idea that I'm going with, pics will follow...

JohnW

I was just going to attach them to the front leaf mount with a piece of box tubing on either side. Then someday build a new subframe inboard of the stock one
-

don33

oh ok, yeah, haven't done that yet, still have to figure that out... how are you thinking of doing that ?

JohnW

I didn't see any photos of how you connected the subframe connectors in the rear. Just curious, I think I already know how I'm going to be attaching mine.
-

don33

Start on page 1 it's pretty much all there.

JohnW

You might have to actually cut like I did. Yours is probably 2" off from where mine is. I was right at the reinforced area for the bump stop in the center. It was 2 layers, one was 3/16" thick. I'm going to have to fab up a patch soon. My car was resting on the speed sensor tabs with the lower Landrum 125 springs I put in. I would've hit them during normal suspension travel on stock springs. I'm only going to have about 1.5" of suspension travel on my car.

I want to add a fuel cell and a better rear subframe like that next year. Yours is looking nice. I'm going to just do subframe connectors for now. Any photos of how the front of that tubular section connects to the chassis?
-

don33

had a fab shop cut and weld it back together, they had the means to ensure it was straight. I have a fuel cell in mine so no worries on the diff cover hitting that. also since my rear has been narrowed, it is perfectly centered.  At this time I don't believe the tabs on the rear will hit the floor. we shall see.  not a big deal, nothing a sheet metal modification tool (hammer) cant handle, and if I need to cut a little, cut and weld.  anyway the big news of the day is, I got my shock mounts all welded in and shocks are mounted. the shocks I used are Strange 10 way adjustable intended for a Fox body mustang. check it out.










JohnW

How'd you go about cutting it? Just a warning, the speed sensor and protecting tabs will NOT clear the floor. You can either remove them or cut the floor. Also the diff cover may hit the gas tank strap mounts, I cut some metal out of mine for clearance.
-

don33

Got some major progress done today, my narrowed explorer rear is in...




don33

Well I'm glad to report the snow is gone it's warming up and I am back at it.  well, got my 8.8 explorer axle cut and welded. ordered some nice new spring perches from Summit Racing, perfectly sized for the 3.25" explorer axle housing. check it out.


JohnW

Most of the wheels that are easily available are higher offset and have been for the past couple decades. I'm just leaving my axle alone so I can fit them without spacers and even if I wanted to shorten it, I don't have the tools to do so and there's nobody local who can do it.

The axle barely fit at stock width. If I clearance a few spots of the car and cut the bump stops, I'll be able to get about 1.5" of travel with the lower Landrum leaf springs I bought. The tabs that protect the speed sensor and the sensor itself stick out too much (my car is resting on them right now!), but they're centered and I'm going to cut the floor out at the back of the trans tunnel under the seat and rebuild it to clear. I'm using the electronic speed sensor. With one side shortened, this would be off-center and even harder to make fit. But if you're cutting it off and plugging the hole, that's less of an issue. It's still going to be tight though.
-

don33

Ok, I'm just about to get back into the build if it would just stop snowing...!  I'm hoping to get the rear axle cut and welded this coming week. Yeah, the large NPR is a pretty good Fit. I wont have any problem filling the wheel wells, just get wider wheels and tires...

JohnW

Keep us updated. I'm in the process of doing almost the same swap.

I put the Explorer rear axle in as-is. Had to cut off the bracket from the diff for the 3rd shock on the Explorer and beat the floor under the back seat with a hammer quite a bit. I may need to cut a little padding out of the right side seat base. I also have to cut some metal out at the end of the trans tunnel and build it up to clear the speed sensor and cast tabs that protect it. There's just enough room under the seatback to get the clearance while not modding the seat. If you center the pinion, the speed sensor will not clear in a Pinto without serious modifications that would get in the way of the back seat. And I like the extra width from it, pushes the wheels out to fill the fenders better and allows the use of higher offset wheels.

I also have an Aerostar driveshaft to go along with my T5. Can't beat $80 for a good condition aluminum shaft.

The NPR intercooler looks like it fits perfectly. I would go that route if I didn't already get a free Greddy front mount.
-

don33

yes I did get the upper control arms from
speedway. and yes I am running manual brakes. everything has been on hold for a while hope to get back at it soon...

tintmaster

Love the build! I have a '77 hatch. Plan on about the same setup as yours. Couple of questions.


1) Did you get the upper control arm from Speedway as well?


2) Are you running power brakes for the conversion? Can I keep my manual brake booster doing the swap?
C. Eugene Brown

thmpsn70

I don't have a pinto but our setup will be more similar than not, I have a 1975 mustang II i was wondering what master cylinder you are considering to go with those  gm calipers and the explorer discs, is your set up manual brakes? or power ? mine is manual at the moment this is the reason i have been on the hunt for a ranger 8.8 with drum brake (no need to change masters with that set up

don33

I got the rear axle housing all disassembled, now I just need to drill out the plugs that hold the tube in the center section. pull the tube out. using the one cut method, cut 2 15/16 off the end of the tube and insert tube back into center section. weld everything in place and reassemble with two short side axles. let me tell you, those are some beefy axles. this thing will be very durable.

a little progress, I went back to the wrecking yard where I bought the housing from and traded them my long side axle for another short side axle, no cash involved, small victory...   

Yesterday I got the 3 plugs that secure the axle tube into the center section drilled out, tomorrow I'm taking it down to the shop where I work to see if We can get the tube extracted from the center section ....   stay tuned.

don33

just thought this pic might be of interest to anyone who is considering the explorer axle swap...   in the pic is a 1998 ford explorer rear, the drive shaft is a 1997 areostar aluminum drive shaft, the transmission is a ford C4. what's cool about this you ask ?  they all fit together, no mods required.



as soon as I get the axle housing narrowed, I can start assembling the car.

don33

Next on the agenda is obtaining a Ford Explorer complete rear axle assy...




Well, just got back from the wrecking yard and here it is, a complete 1998 ford explorer rear axle assy. cost me $245.00 , that's an awesome deal. you get 5 lug 11.25" disc, 31 spline heavy duty axles, a trac lock 8.8 diff and 373 gears. try rebuilding your 8 inch with the above features for that price... 


Alpine615

1980 Runabout

don33

Ordered from speedway motors.....

  91032237  U-JOINT, 9/16"-26 WELD-ON  $49.99 

Alpine615

I went back and read some of your earlier posts - I am also interested in using a forged steel u-joint instead of the rubber rag joint. Do you happen to remember what size it is, or what the part number was?
1980 Runabout

74 PintoWagon

Art
65 Falcon 2DR 200 IL6 with C4.

don33

and there it is, Speedway Motors 5 lug conversion installed...




Well I finished up both sides, I'm impressed...! but now I don't have any 15" 5 lug wheels. what the heck am I going to do now...?

don33

getting ready to install the the new 5 lug front suspension...





right side all assembled and ready to go on...