Mini Classifieds

1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/28/2018 09:18 am
Mustang ll/Pinto/Bobcat Aluminum Wheel Rim

Date: 07/20/2018 03:00 pm
hubcaps

Date: 05/13/2021 05:33 pm
1974 Pinto Passenger side door glass and door parts

Date: 02/18/2017 05:55 pm
1979 pinto
Date: 04/19/2018 02:02 am
Hoard of Pinto parts
Date: 12/17/2016 04:14 pm
79 pinto front,rear alum bumpers

Date: 07/17/2018 09:49 pm
Weather Strip, Muffler, Splash Shields

Date: 02/21/2022 11:11 pm
EARLY PINTO CLUTCH PEDAL ASSEMBLY
Date: 02/14/2019 06:27 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
  • Total Members: 7,895
  • Latest: tdok
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,581
  • Total Topics: 16,270
  • Online today: 1,972
  • Online ever: 3,214 (June 20, 2025, 10:48:59 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 131
  • Total: 131
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

Replacement Backup Lamps for 73 Station Wagon

Started by dave1987, October 09, 2010, 11:10:48 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

dave1987

I would LOVE to come to Cali and work on your Pintos, Becky! Unfortunately I cannot afford it at the moment. :( Yes, I was asking you about your backup lamps working or not. :)

I didn't get new bulbs, I tried using the ones I pulled from the wagon at the junk yard, which are actually still good, but I could not get the passenger side lamp to come on. The driver's side kind of worked. The only way I could get the driver's side to come on was to tap the bulb and it would flicker. After about 6 or 7 taps it would illuminate until I bumped the socket and it would turn off. That wouldn't work to well under normal driving circumstances. Imagine backing out and they work, then you go for a driver and the road is just a bit rough or you go over a speed bump in a parking lot, then you go to backup again and they don't work. Would be very frustrating!

I pulled a pair of single pole 1156 sockets from a late 70's pickup at the junk yard and spliced them to the Wagon's wiring harness. Both lamps work GREAT now! Best of all, I don't get charged for things like that at the junk yard I go to since it's included in my yearly pass, normally the $1.00 entry fee covers stuff like that though.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

Quote from: blupinto on October 12, 2010, 08:57:29 PM
RSM sorry... my arms are too short and I'm no wizard with digital cameras. lol :lol:

If you had held the socket/bulb with your toes instead, it would have given you the distance you needed to get a clear shot!  How's that for unsolicited advice? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

lol. Good question.  :lol:

Dave, are you asking ME about my back-up lights? Come to Cali and work your magic on my wagon's tranny and clutch and we can explore the back-up light situation! lol! :lol:   Til then I won't even start Meanie... she sounds like a mountain lion is being tortured under her hood!  :hypno:
One can never have too many Pintos!

RSM

That's ok Blu...just messin with ya...LOL  So did Dave get new bulbs?

dave1987

I'm 100% positive it's the socket. The bulbs are the exact same size as the stop lamp bulbs, which are also double pole bulbs, but they have two filaments and the securing posts are one high and one low, not both low.

I went ahead and converted it to single pole sockets from an old Ford pickup and they work great. My real concern now is, how in the world are your backup lamps working?!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

blupinto

Dave, they worked when the car was still running. The throw-out bearing is shot to pieces but I'll see if someone can spot me tomorrow. Meanwhile, how in the everlovin' blue-eyed world would a two-pole bulb fit in that socket!? Are you sure the shorting out hasn't anything to do with the wiring on or around the tranny you fixed/replaced?

RSM sorry... my arms are too short and I'm no wizard with digital cameras. lol :lol:
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

Becky, Brownie's setup is IDENTICAL. Yes RSM, you are seeing two terminals there. I had single pole bulbs in it before and it was shorting out the power wire to the ground with the single pole on the base of the bulb, causing my radio/washer pump/backup lamp/dome lamp fuse to burn out. I couldn't figure out for the life of me why the radio stopped working!

Becky, are you backup lamps actually working? If so, I don't understand how. Single pole bulbs are grounded to the car by the metal base of the bulb. There is no contact on the side wall of the connector for the bulbs to do that, one of those contacts inside the connector go to the ground wire for the marker lamp and tail lamp as well. Might want to check just to be sure.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

RSM

Not a real clear pic but I see 2 terminals...or maybe it's the beer?...lol

blupinto

Dave, I went to O'Reilly's (formerly Kragen's) and the bulbs they had for a '73 Pinto wagon for back-up lights are Sylvania Long Life #1156. I was intrigued by what you'd been telling us about the bulbs being double poled so I went out to Green Meanie, herself a '73 wagon. I pulled out her socket and sure enough her current bulb is single poled. Here's pix on what her stuff looks like. Is Brownie's setup similar?
One can never have too many Pintos!

RSM

Any big parts store should have those. We get ours at work from Napa

blupinto

Dave before you go to drastic measures let me see if I can grab a pair or two from my O'Reilly's. Hang tight.  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

Well I went to the junk yard today and pulled the driver's side taillight assembly, it has the bulbs in it and the filaments are intact. I'll try them later and see if they actually work or not.

If they don't work, I cut some sockets off a 70s ford pickup which are for the standard 1176 bulbs, that is my backup plan, or at least the alternative for when these ones burn out. I added a second foam gasket to where they twist into the housing and they fit tight!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

289Wagon

 
  I have found one of the 1076 bulbs among my 'treasures'  OK junk !
  It has a single filiment with double contacts on the base and the retaining
  pins are straight across from each other.
   If you are unable to find what you need locally, email me and I will look
  for another one and send them to you. I doubt very much that I'll ever be
  working on a '67 Mack again.
Still living the dream...In a points & condenser world.

dave1987

My dad changed the sockets on my 78 sedan back in the 80s. I really want to keep my 73 wagon as original as I possibly can. I will be going to the junk yard tommorrow morning to hunt for more of these bulbs.

The wiring in my 73 wagon is completely untouched and original aside from one of the ignition wires in the dash harness, which makes me wonder about the strange backup lamp bulbs.

I will be checking parts stores for comet bulbs as well. Thank you for the info!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

289Wagon

  I think the lamp # you discribe is 1076. They were used on older Mack tks.
& some early Comets & Falcons.
  Could someone have changed the socket assy ? Because I don't understand
why you don't have the std. 1156. Perhaps you may want to consider
changing you sockets to ones that use the 1156. Just a thought.
Still living the dream...In a points & condenser world.

dave1987

Any one know where to get replacement backup lamp bulbs for 73 wagons? I cannot find them ANYWHERE but online, and I don't think they are the correct ones! :(

The original sockets are double pole bulbs with two securing posts at the bottom of the base. The closest I can find in town are 1156 bulbs and are listed as OEM replacements for all Pintos, but those are single pole bulbs. The only double pole bulbs I can find are the stop lamp bulbs but they have one securing post higher than the other.

This is why I don't have backup lamps, the single pole bulbs is shorting out both contacts and blowing the fuse every time I shift to reverse.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!