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1977 Pinto for parts

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Looking for Passenger side Inner Fender Apron
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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

What are/were rare pintos?

Started by 78_starsky, April 01, 2010, 07:59:58 AM

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blupinto

Quote from: dave1987 on April 09, 2010, 11:21:35 AM
In the shout box last night we were discussing Pintos I have taken parts from at a junk yard here in Idaho.

One of the cars I have seen is a 76 runabout with a V6 and A/C. Normally it might not sound like anything special, however this car is an all original dark green with "woodgrain" paneling on the sides! I've heard a rumor or two that they existed and never thought anything about the car until Becky and Dwayne really mentioned something about it last night and got me thinking about it's details.

I guess we can add non wagon squires to the list!

I'll get pictures of it next time I'm out there.


Dave, Phil beat you to the punch! How 'bout this Pinto? It's a '76 too...
One can never have too many Pintos!

OhSix9

If we can include stuff that is not totally factory.

How about any of the decently executed convertible conversions that where done. The one in "Friday" always makes me giggle.

The stilletto which i think looks kinda goofy and the Fazer/Phaser which appears to either be the original pangra molds without the flip up headlights that where sold in the 90's or it was a splash mold of the pangra as it appears identical in all other respects.  i have only seen one picture and have not yet been able to ascertain its origins so if anybody knows please enlighten...

Plus the amazing handy work exhibited by some members here creating pincheros that look completely factory.

Other than those i would have to concur with the statement "all the survivors". Between my 69 mach 1 and 78 cruising wagon i can guarantee which is far rarer.

As maligned as the pinto has been by the general public the truth is the life of your typical pinto went something like this.  10 years of daily commuter service sold once or twice along the way then either raced into the ground in the mini stock ranks or sent to a scrap yard where it was torched up within 30 minutes of hitting the dirt.  There are more ford chevy and dodge "Rods" rollin around sporting our ifs systems and coveted 8 inch diffs than anyone is willing to admit. Hell they built an entire industry around the front suspension design of this car.

OhSix'
Modest beginnings start with the single blow of a horn man..    Now when you get through with this thing every dickhead in the world is gonna wanna own it.   Do you know anything at all about the internal combustion engine?

Virgil to Sid

pintoman

There are two in central Ohio.
05 Pigon Forge Meet, 06 Carlile Meet Coordinator 06-07 Carlile Regional, Brief Case Award (ask)

flash041

I have yet to see a Pinto Rallye,except this one I found in a junkyard.
1978 Pinto Cruising wagon (I am the original owner ! ) Built Aug 15th 1977 in NJ
1993 Mustang LX 2.3 convertible

Pinto Pro

At the Pick-A-Part a few years ago was a factory "Playboy Pink" model with white interior, it was a 73 model, and after checking the codes, it came from the factory with that color combo.

It was in nearly perfect shape, I wanted to buy it, but Pick-A-Part will not sell a car to the public once its been put out in the general yard.

dave1987

In the shout box last night we were discussing Pintos I have taken parts from at a junk yard here in Idaho.

One of the cars I have seen is a 76 runabout with a V6 and A/C. Normally it might not sound like anything special, however this car is an all original dark green with "woodgrain" paneling on the sides! I've heard a rumor or two that they existed and never thought anything about the car until Becky and Dwayne really mentioned something about it last night and got me thinking about it's details.

I guess we can add non wagon squires to the list!

I'll get pictures of it next time I'm out there.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

popbumper

Cool thread. Mine is your average "Plain Jane" 1976 MPG wagon. Geeze, I always thought painting it in a Stallion scheme would be cool - only because they did not do the wagons as Stallions.

Chris
Restoring a 1976 MPG wagon - purchased 6/08

TIGGER

Quote from: blupinto on April 07, 2010, 03:29:48 PM
ahh... what's a Group II Pinto?

I forgot about those......

Here is a link to the thread that we have started on them....

http://www.fordpinto.com/index.php/topic,76.0.html
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

krazi

certain '77 bobcat wagons are rare. if you own a '77 with the first vin number being an 8, you have one of about 2400 77 bobcat wagons that was built in 78. I have one, and I gotta order parts for a 78 when I need them

krazi
yeah, I'm Krazi!

Bigtimmay

rare pintos and bobcats huh? well im gunna go with if i own it its rare. LOL  :lol:
1978 Mercury Bobcat 2.3t swapped.Always needs more parts!

blupinto

How about a '71 with 1600, no a/c, and... Sun-X factory tinted windows?  And Bright Trim?
One can never have too many Pintos!

Wittsend

>>>Almost any factory black Pinto<<<

If I recall correctly the Pinto that drove all over the city stairway in "Double Nickels" was black.

What about the "Kate Jackson" Pinto?  While the car itself wasn't rare the owner was famous.

Tom

dga57

Quote from: Original74 on April 07, 2010, 01:16:20 PM
How about a brand new Pinto in 2010? Most of you know about my 'Jade' find a couple of years ago.

I don't know if any of you follow Legendary Fords magazine, but I kept seeing 11 and 16 mile Ford's from the 70's being spotlighted. I researched the owner and talked to him. Rick Schmidt, owner of National Parts Depot (NPD) in FL got ahold of a collection from an old Ford dealer in Nebraska. I called him to see if by chance he had any Pinto's. He shared the story about the dealer and that he only had low mileage cars through 1970.

I tell you that to share this....I told Rick about Jade with 430 miles and asked him what he would do with it. Here is what he shared that I will try my best to uphold. He said even a 6,000 or 10,000 mile car at 30 years is only a very low mileage used car. He suggested that I keep the miles off the Pinto, never even getting above 600 miles on it, because it will always be respected as a 'new' car.

Not to hijack your thread, but my vote for what IS the rarest Pinto available today is a NEW Pinto that can be had in 2010!

Gordy in KS is close behind me with something a tad over 600 miles on I believe a '76. I've got to get up there and drool over that car!

Dave


And to think, Dave... I'm priviledged to have seen the illustrious Jade up close and personal!  It IS indeed, a new Pinto in every sense of the word except years!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

ahh... what's a Group II Pinto?
One can never have too many Pintos!

dick1172762

Any "Group II" Pinto.  Any bench seat Pinto.  Almost any factory black Pinto.
Its better to be a has-been, than a never was.

Original74

How about a brand new Pinto in 2010? Most of you know about my 'Jade' find a couple of years ago.

I don't know if any of you follow Legendary Fords magazine, but I kept seeing 11 and 16 mile Ford's from the 70's being spotlighted. I researched the owner and talked to him. Rick Schmidt, owner of National Parts Depot (NPD) in FL got ahold of a collection from an old Ford dealer in Nebraska. I called him to see if by chance he had any Pinto's. He shared the story about the dealer and that he only had low mileage cars through 1970.

I tell you that to share this....I told Rick about Jade with 430 miles and asked him what he would do with it. Here is what he shared that I will try my best to uphold. He said even a 6,000 or 10,000 mile car at 30 years is only a very low mileage used car. He suggested that I keep the miles off the Pinto, never even getting above 600 miles on it, because it will always be respected as a 'new' car.

Not to hijack your thread, but my vote for what IS the rarest Pinto available today is a NEW Pinto that can be had in 2010!

Gordy in KS is close behind me with something a tad over 600 miles on I believe a '76. I've got to get up there and drool over that car!

Dave
Dave Herbeck- Missing from us... He will always be with us

1974 Sedan, 'Geraldine', 45,000 miles, orange and white, show car.
1976 Runabout, project.
1979 Sedan, 'Jade', 429 miles, show car, really needs to be in a museum. I am building him one!
1979 Runabout, light blue, 39,000 miles, daily driver

Norman Bagi

If such a listing existed it would probably be on Cookie Boys site. He does a have a section devoted to many of the rarest of Pintos, check out the link.

http://www.cookieboystoys.com/

http://www.cookieboystoys.com/vintage.htm

78_starsky

Quote from: 78txpony on April 01, 2010, 10:18:43 AM
. What Pintos are rare?

All of them...  :P

In a way that is kinda true, for there has to be many many that have been crushed and turned into "ricers"  don't see many that is for sure.

The more reading that I have been doing on Pinto's the more I am liking the thought of the summer when ours will be on the road and driven about town.

FlyerPinto

Speaking of rare, has anyone ever seen the "Red Baron" version of the Pinto? Ford used to do some work with Charles Schulz (creator of Peanuts and Snoopy vs. the Red Baron) and I have studio photos of a Pinto hatchback with Snoopy flying his doghouse on the quarter panel behind the rear windows. His doghouse has the British roundel on it and the lettering says "The Red Baron." I vaguely remember this but I don't know if I've ever seen one anywhere other than in photos.
1977 Bobcat HB
1977 Bobcat HB
1978 Pinto Cruising Wagon

So many projects, so little time...

blupinto

THen there's the '71 Runabouts with half-glass hatch. There are a few around but I'd definitely call them rare.  ;D
One can never have too many Pintos!

78txpony

. What Pintos are rare?

All of them...  :P
-Rob Young
1978 Pinto Pony sedan (Old Faithful) a.k.a. "the Tramp"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/thelonerider2005/sets
1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible (442 clone) -"Lady" (My mistress...)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robsalbum/sets
1986 Cutlass Supreme Coupe - "Pristine"
1997 H-D Sportster

phils toys

1976 bobcat runabout with woodgrain siding  1 year only wagons were every year
2006, 07,08 ,10 Carlisle 3rd stock pinto 4 years same place
2007 PCCA East Regional Best Wagon
2008 CAHS Prom Coolest Ride
2011,2014 pinto stampede

Starsky and Hutch

My accent pn interior and stripe package was 77 only, no total number manufactured is available from Ford
1977 Pinto Accent stripe group Runabout                                                                    interior(Code PN) Color (Code R2)

71HANTO

Although the project never got off the ground with Ford, there was one Lotus powered 1974 HANTO Pinto prototype produced, so 1 of 1. That's about as rare as you can get...IT"S OUT THERE SOMEWHERE :hypno: and let's not forget the one "Flying Pinto"! :lost:

http://blog.themustangguys.com/Hantopinto.jpg

71HANTO
"Life is a series of close ones...'til the last one"...cfpjr

TIGGER

The 76 Pinto Stallion was a one year only thing like the Sprint.  Also the sedan deliverly wagons are pretty rare.  They have the crusing wagon panels without the port hole window.  I think one of the of the rarest options has to be the crank back sunroof.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

turbo74pinto

ive only seen one ess model.  i think they were 79-80.  the one i saw was a 78, i could only assume it was a clone.

bob
Take a job big or small, do it right or not at all.

78_starsky

Besides the "Pinto Sprint" and the "Pinto Pangra", what are the rarer years, body styles, and option packages that Ford produced for the Pinto?  And does anyone know of a web page that has complete breakdowns of the cars produced with all option packages?  I know ford didn't take much care of keeping track of these figures for their "cheap" cars; not like the detailed information one can find for early mustangs (pre 74), those cars are fully detailed.

thanks