Mini Classifieds

pinto wagon parts
Date: 12/19/2019 01:43 pm
1.6 New Ford cylinder head with side draft carbs

Date: 06/12/2018 08:18 pm
71-73 Front Kick Panels
Date: 04/25/2021 07:24 pm
1976 Squire wagon

Date: 09/12/2018 10:30 pm
75 wagon need parts
Date: 05/28/2020 05:19 pm
1973 Pinto Runabout

Date: 03/25/2019 09:02 pm
2.0 Mickey Thompson SUPER RARE cam cover and belt guard
Date: 08/27/2018 11:11 am
78 Cruising Wagon at Mecum Chattanooga

Date: 09/02/2021 08:21 am
Need lower control arms for 1973 pinto
Date: 02/27/2017 10:10 pm

Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

Members
Stats
  • Total Posts: 139,575
  • Total Topics: 16,267
  • Online today: 905
  • Online ever: 1,722 (May 04, 2025, 02:19:48 AM)
Users Online
  • Users: 0
  • Guests: 407
  • Total: 407
F&I...more

My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

87 turbocoupe engine into 74 pinto

Started by pintoguy76, December 14, 2009, 10:16:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

kenbaker

Here are a few answers to your problems.
-Hi pressure lines off of a tuarus or other ford car.
-The turbo will be where your battery is now, so remove the battery and pound out the fender wall with a hammer.  Works well trust me!
-Put the battery in a moroso box behind the drivers seat.
-you want a powerful fuel pump  I used one for a mustang SVO.
-42 pound injectors off of I think a 944 porshe turbo work on the intake.
-The hood you will need a scoop.  The five liter mustang one works well, even with the intercooler.
-check out racer walsh!!!!!!  lots of turbo stuff

Wittsend

Honestly the MGB fan swap is SO easy.  I guess you could move the O2 sensor, but it is likely a lot more work. I also had to slot the 90 degree O2 housing and rotate the bottom inward to get exhaust pipe to frame rail clearance.  The end result of that was it also rotated the O2 sensor closer to the fan!

Yes, The IHI wastegate has clearance issues even with my modified inner fender.

I found a few pictures:
Fuel pump shows mounting location.
MGB replacement heater motor (two pics).
Inner replacement panel. Everything behind the front of the motor mount has been replaced. The area where the panel is welded in just above the frame rail is significantly lower than the original. yet as low as it is, it barely clears the wastegate diaphram even though I indented the area for clearance.

Tom

pintoguy76

Thanks for the info. I will look for your posts.


I plan to use an 85 merkur harness that i have, not the 87-88 TC harness so that will make it much easier.

Would it be possible to modfiy the turbo outlet elbow to put the oxygen sensor in another spot to eliminate the heater problem?

Also I read somewhere that the IHI turbo itself has wastegate clearane issues? Know anything about that?
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed

1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E

Wittsend

Hello, I have done a similar swap. If you search my postings under "wittsend" you may find pertinant information, pictures etc.

But to breifly answer some questions:

Integrating the 87-88 harness into the Pinto is rather complicated. I basically disected out the ride control, abs etc. and then transfered the remaining harness and fuse box as a near separate sub system. It was a LOT of work taking many days.

Yes, within reason the regulator will handle the fuel pump pressures. I used a F-350 inline pump mounted externally under the rear seat area.

Yes, the turbo does create a fitting problem. My battery area was rusted out and I fashioned a new, larger panel to both effectively repair the area and compensate for the turbo. it is not stock in appearance.

I have a wagon too. I mounted the T/C window wash tank under the front fender. Then I used the T/C battery tray in the drive side front of the car.

I own a Sunbeam Tiger and found a quick fix for the heater motor clearance.  I replaced it with a MGB motor (as we do in the Tiger). It simply requires slotting two mounting holes and reversing the wires to the fan.  The cage is smaller the motor runs backwards (from design) but it still blows a sufficient amount of air. You will have to trust me on that.

I tried to find my relevant post, but I have too many and am short on time.  However, I have posted pictures and many methods of what I did regarding your questions and many more. So, take a few minutes to find them. Bill from Conn. also has great info posted. There are others as well.

All the best, Tom



pintoguy76

I need a wiring diagram or something that will show me how to hookup the wiring of an 87 2.3T into my 74 pinto. I am using an 85(?) XR4TI (from auto trans car) harness which i have switched the wires around in the computer connector already to use an LA3 computer. The computer I purchased actually is an LB3. I have a large VAM to go with it. This pinto has a point type ignition, so the voltage from the ignition switch will be 6v. I will have to dig out the resistor wire and I assume the ECU will be controlled off that wire. Thats about as much as I know at this point.

The next question is the fuel pump. What is the required pressure and volume? If the pump I buy has more than the required pressure, I'm assuming the pressure regulator will reduce the pressure to the proper level, correct?  Will this engine be able to utilize the stock pinto lines? (I believe they are 5/16") I don't plan on getting too wild with it power wise, at least anytime real soon, so i'm not worried about having a fuel system (pump and lines) to support a 500hp monster (figuratively speaking).

The stock engine is a 2.3 in this car so it will bolt right in. Might be some clearance issues with the intake, even if its not much (it is the low style intake). I know there will be clearance issues with the  turbocharger and the inner fender as well as with the battery and heater motor. I think a center mount header will eliminate those issues and if not, I will eliminate them another way. This car is a wagon, so I really don't want to move the battery into the back, inside the cab. I also don't want to lose my heater (car is NOT ac). I don't mind cutting a few holes in the inner fender, but if it can be avoided it would be great.

Also, I was told the engine I bought had a ranger clutch on it and that it was stronger than the TC clutch. Will that clutch mate up to a T5 and is it really stronger than the stock TC clutch? I have never heard that before so I thought i'd double check.

I think that might be all I need to know right now. Can someone help me any?
1974 Ford Pinto Wagon with 1991 Mustang DIS EFI 2.3 and stock Pinto 4 Speed

1996 Chevy C2500 Suburban with 6.5L Turbo Diesel/4L80E 4x2

1980 Volvo 265 with 1997 S-10 4.3 and a modified 700R4

2010 GMC Sierra SLE 1500 4x2 5.3 6L80E