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Why the Ford Pinto didn’t suck

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suckThe Ford Pinto was born a low-rent, stumpy thing in Dearborn 40 years ago and grew to become one of the most infamous cars in history. The thing is that it didn't actually suck. Really.

Even after four decades, what's the first thing that comes to mind when most people think of the Ford Pinto? Ka-BLAM! The truth is the Pinto was more than that — and this is the story of how the exploding Pinto became a pre-apocalyptic narrative, how the myth was exposed, and why you should race one.

The Pinto was CEO Lee Iacocca's baby, a homegrown answer to the threat of compact-sized economy cars from Japan and Germany, the sales of which had grown significantly throughout the 1960s. Iacocca demanded the Pinto cost under $2,000, and weigh under 2,000 pounds. It was an all-hands-on-deck project, and Ford got it done in 25 months from concept to production.

Building its own small car meant Ford's buyers wouldn't have to hew to the Japanese government's size-tamping regulations; Ford would have the freedom to choose its own exterior dimensions and engine sizes based on market needs (as did Chevy with the Vega and AMC with the Gremlin). And people cold dug it.

When it was unveiled in late 1970 (ominously on September 11), US buyers noted the Pinto's pleasant shape — bringing to mind a certain tailless amphibian — and interior layout hinting at a hipster's sunken living room. Some call it one of the ugliest cars ever made, but like fans of Mischa Barton, Pinto lovers care not what others think. With its strong Kent OHV four (a distant cousin of the Lotus TwinCam), the Pinto could at least keep up with its peers, despite its drum brakes and as long as one looked past its Russian-roulette build quality.

But what of the elephant in the Pinto's room? Yes, the whole blowing-up-on-rear-end-impact thing. It all started a little more than a year after the Pinto's arrival.

 

Grimshaw v. Ford Motor Company

On May 28, 1972, Mrs. Lilly Gray and 13-year-old passenger Richard Grimshaw, set out from Anaheim, California toward Barstow in Gray's six-month-old Ford Pinto. Gray had been having trouble with the car since new, returning it to the dealer several times for stalling. After stopping in San Bernardino for gasoline, Gray got back on I-15 and accelerated to around 65 mph. Approaching traffic congestion, she moved from the left lane to the middle lane, where the car suddenly stalled and came to a stop. A 1962 Ford Galaxie, the driver unable to stop or swerve in time, rear-ended the Pinto. The Pinto's gas tank was driven forward, and punctured on the bolts of the differential housing.

As the rear wheel well sections separated from the floor pan, a full tank of fuel sprayed straight into the passenger compartment, which was engulfed in flames. Gray later died from congestive heart failure, a direct result of being nearly incinerated, while Grimshaw was burned severely and left permanently disfigured. Grimshaw and the Gray family sued Ford Motor Company (among others), and after a six-month jury trial, verdicts were returned against Ford Motor Company. Ford did not contest amount of compensatory damages awarded to Grimshaw and the Gray family, and a jury awarded the plaintiffs $125 million, which the judge in the case subsequently reduced to the low seven figures. Other crashes and other lawsuits followed.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Mother Jones and Pinto Madness

In 1977, Mark Dowie, business manager of Mother Jones magazine published an article on the Pinto's "exploding gas tanks." It's the same article in which we first heard the chilling phrase, "How much does Ford think your life is worth?" Dowie had spent days sorting through filing cabinets at the Department of Transportation, examining paperwork Ford had produced as part of a lobbying effort to defeat a federal rear-end collision standard. That's where Dowie uncovered an innocuous-looking memo entitled "Fatalities Associated with Crash-Induced Fuel Leakage and Fires."

The Car Talk blog describes why the memo proved so damning.

In it, Ford's director of auto safety estimated that equipping the Pinto with [an] $11 part would prevent 180 burn deaths, 180 serious burn injuries and 2,100 burned cars, for a total cost of $137 million. Paying out $200,000 per death, $67,000 per injury and $700 per vehicle would cost only $49.15 million.

The government would, in 1978, demand Ford recall the million or so Pintos on the road to deal with the potential for gas-tank punctures. That "smoking gun" memo would become a symbol for corporate callousness and indifference to human life, haunting Ford (and other automakers) for decades. But despite the memo's cold calculations, was Ford characterized fairly as the Kevorkian of automakers?

Perhaps not. In 1991, A Rutgers Law Journal report [PDF] showed the total number of Pinto fires, out of 2 million cars and 10 years of production, stalled at 27. It was no more than any other vehicle, averaged out, and certainly not the thousand or more suggested by Mother Jones.

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

The big rebuttal, and vindication?

But what of the so-called "smoking gun" memo Dowie had unearthed? Surely Ford, and Lee Iacocca himself, were part of a ruthless establishment who didn't care if its customers lived or died, right? Well, not really. Remember that the memo was a lobbying document whose audience was intended to be the NHTSA. The memo didn't refer to Pintos, or even Ford products, specifically, but American cars in general. It also considered rollovers not rear-end collisions. And that chilling assignment of value to a human life? Indeed, it was federal regulators who often considered that startling concept in their own deliberations. The value figure used in Ford's memo was the same one regulators had themselves set forth.

In fact, measured by occupant fatalities per million cars in use during 1975 and 1976, the Pinto's safety record compared favorably to other subcompacts like the AMC Gremlin, Chevy Vega, Toyota Corolla and VW Beetle.

And what of Mother Jones' Dowie? As the Car Talk blog points out, Dowie now calls the Pinto, "a fabulous vehicle that got great gas mileage," if not for that one flaw: The legendary "$11 part."

Why the Ford Pinto didn't suck

Pinto Racing Doesn't Suck

Back in 1974, Car and Driver magazine created a Pinto for racing, an exercise to prove brains and common sense were more important than an unlimited budget and superstar power. As Patrick Bedard wrote in the March, 1975 issue of Car and Driver, "It's a great car to drive, this Pinto," referring to the racer the magazine prepared for the Goodrich Radial Challenge, an IMSA-sanctioned road racing series for small sedans.

Why'd they pick a Pinto over, say, a BMW 2002 or AMC Gremlin? Current owner of the prepped Pinto, Fox Motorsports says it was a matter of comparing the car's frontal area, weight, piston displacement, handling, wheel width, and horsepower to other cars of the day that would meet the entry criteria. (Racers like Jerry Walsh had by then already been fielding Pintos in IMSA's "Baby Grand" class.)

Bedard, along with Ron Nash and company procured a 30,000-mile 1972 Pinto two-door to transform. In addition to safety, chassis and differential mods, the team traded a 200-pound IMSA weight penalty for the power gain of Ford's 2.3-liter engine, which Bedard said "tipped the scales" in the Pinto's favor. But according to Bedard, it sounds like the real advantage was in the turns, thanks to some add-ons from Mssrs. Koni and Bilstein.

"The Pinto's advantage was cornering ability," Bedard wrote. "I don't think there was another car in the B. F. Goodrich series that was quicker through the turns on a dry track. The steering is light and quick, and the suspension is direct and predictable in a way that street cars never can be. It never darts over bumps, the axle is perfectly controlled and the suspension doesn't bottom."

Need more proof of the Pinto's lack of suck? Check out the SCCA Washington, DC region's spec-Pinto series.

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My Somewhat Begrudging Apology To Ford Pinto

ford-pinto.jpg

I never thought I’d offer an apology to the Ford Pinto, but I guess I owe it one.

I had a Pinto in the 1970s. Actually, my wife bought it a few months before we got married. The car became sort of a wedding dowry. So did the remaining 80% of the outstanding auto loan.

During a relatively brief ownership, the Pinto’s repair costs exceeded the original price of the car. It wasn’t a question of if it would fail, but when. And where. Sometimes, it simply wouldn’t start in the driveway. Other times, it would conk out at a busy intersection.

It ranks as the worst car I ever had. That was back when some auto makers made quality something like Job 100, certainly not Job 1.

Despite my bad Pinto experience, I suppose an apology is in order because of a recent blog I wrote. It centered on Toyota’s sudden-acceleration problems. But in discussing those, I invoked the memory of exploding Pintos, perpetuating an inaccuracy.

The widespread allegation was that, due to a design flaw, Pinto fuel tanks could readily blow up in rear-end collisions, setting the car and its occupants afire.

People started calling the Pinto “the barbecue that seats four.” And the lawsuits spread like wild fire.

Responding to my blog, a Ford (“I would very much prefer to keep my name out of print”) manager contacted me to set the record straight.

He says exploding Pintos were a myth that an investigation debunked nearly 20 years ago. He cites Gary Schwartz’ 1991 Rutgers Law Review paper that cut through the wild claims and examined what really happened.

Schwartz methodically determined the actual number of Pinto rear-end explosion deaths was not in the thousands, as commonly thought, but 27.

In 1975-76, the Pinto averaged 310 fatalities a year. But the similar-size Toyota Corolla averaged 313, the VW Beetle 374 and the Datsun 1200/210 came in at 405.

Yes, there were cases such as a Pinto exploding while parked on the shoulder of the road and hit from behind by a speeding pickup truck. But fiery rear-end collisions comprised only 0.6% of all fatalities back then, and the Pinto had a lower death rate in that category than the average compact or subcompact, Schwartz said after crunching the numbers. Nor was there anything about the Pinto’s rear-end design that made it particularly unsafe.

Not content to portray the Pinto as an incendiary device, ABC’s 20/20 decided to really heat things up in a 1978 broadcast containing “startling new developments.” ABC breathlessly reported that, not just Pintos, but fullsize Fords could blow up if hit from behind.

20/20 thereupon aired a video, shot by UCLA researchers, showing a Ford sedan getting rear-ended and bursting into flames. A couple of problems with that video:

One, it was shot 10 years earlier.

Two, the UCLA researchers had openly said in a published report that they intentionally rigged the vehicle with an explosive.

That’s because the test was to determine how a crash fire affected the car’s interior, not to show how easily Fords became fire balls. They said they had to use an accelerant because crash blazes on their own are so rare. They had tried to induce a vehicle fire in a crash without using an igniter, but failed.

ABC failed to mention any of that when correspondent Sylvia Chase reported on “Ford’s secret rear-end crash tests.”

We could forgive ABC for that botched reporting job. After all, it was 32 years ago. But a few weeks ago, ABC, in another one of its rigged auto exposes, showed video of a Toyota apparently accelerating on its own.

Turns out, the “runaway” vehicle had help from an associate professor. He built a gizmo with an on-off switch to provide acceleration on demand. Well, at least ABC didn’t show the Toyota slamming into a wall and bursting into flames.

In my blog, I also mentioned that Ford’s woes got worse in the 1970s with the supposed uncovering of an internal memo by a Ford attorney who allegedly calculated it would cost less to pay off wrongful-death suits than to redesign the Pinto.

It became known as the “Ford Pinto memo,” a smoking gun. But Schwartz looked into that, too. He reported the memo did not pertain to Pintos or any Ford products. Instead, it had to do with American vehicles in general.

It dealt with rollovers, not rear-end crashes. It did not address tort liability at all, let alone advocate it as a cheaper alternative to a redesign. It put a value to human life because federal regulators themselves did so.

The memo was meant for regulators’ eyes only. But it was off to the races after Mother Jones magazine got a hold of a copy and reported what wasn’t the case.

The exploding-Pinto myth lives on, largely because more Americans watch 20/20 than read the Rutgers Law Review. One wonders what people will recollect in 2040 about Toyota’s sudden accelerations, which more and more look like driver error and, in some cases, driver shams.

So I guess I owe the Pinto an apology. But it’s half-hearted, because my Pinto gave me much grief, even though, as the Ford manager notes, “it was a cheap car, built long ago and lots of things have changed, almost all for the better.”

Here goes: If I said anything that offended you, Pinto, I’m sorry. And thanks for not blowing up on me.

73 Wagon Project - Brownie

Started by dave1987, December 10, 2009, 02:20:02 AM

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dave1987

1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

75bobcatv6

no pics showed up man? where are they ? lol working hard on that car. Wish i could do the same. I will get to just gunna be a while

dave1987

Update from last Friday, the 19th. Finally got some time to post some pictures while Tia sleeps. :)

Pictures showing my 78 Sedan's old rear shocks (still good) mounted to the 73 Wagon's leafs/body. As Wittsend (Tom) discussed in another post that they do fit with a bit of modification, I decided to try it out myself.

I noticed that the wagon does sit lower in the back than it does in the front. I do not know if this is due to the shorter sedan shocks, worn leaf springs, or just the fact that I have the back of the car loaded up with a bunch of parts. One of those suspicions will be eliminated once the car is cleaned out! :P

Also, Larry sent me the old grill from his restored 71! The wagon has a face again, just need to paint the grill silver again and it should look attractive from the front again! :)


1) Upper mount on driver's side.
2) Lower mount on driver's side. - You can see all the metal bushing washers I stacked together to serve as a spacer.
3) Entire shock mounted in car. - With the car on jack stands, it still doesn't extend completely. Still about 1.5" of extension left!
4) Motor after I replaced the valve cover gasket and cleaned the valve cover. - Original Paint! :D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

r4pinto

Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dave1987

I was able to bleed the rear brakes on my own with some hose and pliers, but I didn't have enough hose to do the front brakes and everyone at my parents was sleeping, so tomorrow (Thursday) I will be finishing the brakes, replacing the transmission output shaft seal, and installing new shocks on her. Maybe the grill from Larry will be there and I can complete her outside appearance! After that it's just a matter of getting the title sorted out with the auction company the guy I bought it from is dealing with right now.

5) New brake pads on the left, old pads on the right
6) Brake pad wear comparison - wow, they really wore the old ones down!
7) Reassembled brakes - Clean rotor, new pads, lubricated pad ends and caliper contact surfaces. Newly greased wheel bearings to!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Thanks Matt, I will see if I can find some that will fit, tomorrow, while I'm at the store picking up the front shocks I ordered for her!


Tuesday I finished up the passenger's side of the brakes. Just cleaned it up enough to get her GOING. Detail work will happen later.

1) The Porter Cable pneumatic grinder with wire wheel attachment that I used to remove the rust from the Rotors.
2) Another wire wheel type attachment that I used to clean up around the edges.
3) The inside of the rotor after cleaning
4) The outside of the rotor after cleaning
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

r4pinto

Lookin good dave!

as for your question about the ball joints, sometimes there is no grease fittings installed but all you have to do to install one is remove the bolt and screw in a grease fitting of the approprate size. Had to do that on one of the U joints on my car.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

dave1987

I didn't realize that the 73 disc brake assembly was SO much different from 74 and later models! I pulled the wheels off and looked at it in sheer amazement of how complex it is compared to what I'm used to working on. I'm still trying to figure out how all the springs come into play...

While I had the rotor on the driver's side off for cleaning, I put new grease on the wheel bearings, tightened them up and replaced the cotter pins. Should be nice and solid now!


5) Clean brake drum backing plate! - Original paint on them is still very nice!
6) Bendix brake drum component. - The oval logo is the "FoMoCo" stamped logo on the part!
7) Reassembled brake drum with new hardware, reused shoes. - Will replace shoes when I can afford newer ones. These should be good for a little while longer though!

8) How badly rusted the front brake discs are. They clean up very nicely, it just takes a lot of time, even with the pneumatic die grinder with the wire brush attatchment! - Will have a photo of it cleaned up later.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

List of completed tasks today:

1) Rebuilt rear brakes, reusing the shoes (still good)
2) Replaced master brake cylinder
3) Replaced brake stop lamp switch
4) Replaced turn signal flasher relay


First question, how come my front turn signals don't work? They were working fine before the stock flasher went out, but now only the rear ones work with the new flasher installed. The lamps are good, they come on when I turn the head lamps or interior lighting on. The hazards also do not work. :(

Second question, are the ball joints supposed to have nipples on them for a grease gun? I was looking at them while I had the driver's side disassembled and it appears there are bolts screwed into place where there would normally be a grease fitting.


I only got half of the front brakes done today. It was getting late and taking to long to clean the rotors, so I will get the passenger side done later this week. WOW there is a lot of rust on them!  :hypno:


Now some pictures! :D

1) Original master brake cylinder - Will be restoring with new seals and a cleanup/paint to have as a backup unit
2) New master brake cylinder - Should be stopping great after I'm done with everything! :D
3) Dirty drum brake assembly on driver's side before replacing hardware. - Took forever to clean up!
4) New wheel cylinders! - Originals were no leaking, but better to be safe than sorry!

1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Thanks Chuck! Was wondering where you were! :P Haven't heard from you in a little while.

Brownie still needs some toying with recovering the dash pad, think I might play around with it.

Need to find another Registered Ride sticker to....
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

discolives78

Congrats on getting your wagon and getting to drive her, Dave!

I miss my wagons (all four of them). I'm still sad the 79 slipped away from me last summer.

Kudos for all the effort you're putting into that wagon!

Chuck :afro:


A virtual version of my last Pinto. Was Registered Ride #111. Missed every day.

dave1987

Got a lot of work done on the wagon today!!! :D

My friend Chris showed up today to help out with the Wagon. We went to AutoZone today to pick up the muffler I had ordered, then out to the junkyard to get a season pass and see if there were any Pintos out yet. No Pintos, but I Found some "Built Ford Tough" floor mats for the 78 Sedan, and we got him an e-brake handle for his Jeep. After that we headed over to my parent's house to work on the Wagon.

Started off by unbolting the exhaust down pipe from the manifold, a big task in itself. Once that was off, we unbolted the muffler and worked it out past the drive shaft. Got it about half way out before we got stuck on the gas tank. Once we dropped the tank, the rest of the exhaust came out fairly easy, while still maneuvering it past the drive shaft.

Once we dropped the tank we dumped the old gas out (about five gallons worth), which was bright ORANGE!  :hypno: However, there is absolutely NO rust in the tank at all, from the areas I can see, at least. Surprised the heck out of me, considering my 78's tank is rough and pitted inside, and the Wagon's is spotless, pretty much new!

After emptying the tank we pulled the vent valve and the fuel sender, and replaced the seals on both, and the filter screen on the end of the fuel pickup.

Once the tank was done, we took the back half of the exhaust (pipe with the muffler attached) down to Boise Muffler and had them weld the new muffler onto the pipe, weld the old rear mounting bracket onto the new muffler, and cut off the old pipe clamp were the two halves of the exhaust join (since the bolts were mangled, I couldn't do it myself).

Took the new exhaust back home, dropped the drive shaft, put a new filler neck seal on the tank, then installed the muffler half of the exhaust back on the car, which took a third of the time since we didn't have to maneuver it around the gas tank and the drive shaft. Once the exhaust was hung back up, we put the tank back on, then replaced the universal joints on the drive shaft and put that back up.

After all of that work, we took a break, got some dinner at McDonalds, and filled up a gas can with five gallons of gas and headed back to the house to start the wagon on it's fresh exhaust system!

Brownie runs so much better on fresh gas, doesn't stink nearly as bad, and is SOOOO much quieter now! There is still a leak where the two pipes join, but I will have to play around with that a little. Might just weld it all up myself, we shall see.



I was hoping to install the new thermostat and replace the output shaft seal on the transmission while I was down there, but I ran out of time. Perhaps next week I can get down there to pull that seal, then replace the thermostat and do the front breaks.

She's getting close people. I'm trying to get her ready to go for this year's car shows!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Put a new alternator and voltage regulator in Brownie, got it all hooked up and the battery charges now! :D

Changed the filter and fluid in the transmission and it's got more get up and go now. Was fun to drive it down the street. :) Once I get some fresh gas in the tank, it should be much better!

Installed a new exhaust pipe clamp on the pipe in the middle of the car where the front pipe slides into the rear pipe. It's a little quieter now and doesn't smoke as much!


Got the new exhaust manifold gaskets and flasher in the mail from Rock Auto today, the rest should be here tomorrow, long list though.

Also got a user's manual, a "attention to owners of 73 Pinto" paper, and the battery warranty papers from ebay today to, gonna be fun to have all of this at car shows! :D

Still no word on registering the car, going to call Darrel (The one who sold it to me) about the progress on contacting the previous owner's wife.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Went to the DMV today to transfer the title and register the car. Found out there is more paperwork needed on the seller's part. :( Will keep you updated.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dga57

I'll put my two cents worth in here... I think Seafoam is the greatest fuel additive ever!  I use it in all my older stuff regularly, and even run a can through the newer vehicles from time to time.  Unfortunately, as Becky pointed out, it isn't exactly cheap!  Good stuff though!

Dwayne :smile:
Pinto Car Club of America - Serving the Ford Pinto enthusiast since 1999.

blupinto

One can never have too many Pintos!

blupinto

I've heard a lot of good feedback about Sea Foam and did use a can in Wildfire before we went to Fabulous Fords Forever last year. Too bad it's a tad pricey... maybe Meanie would run better with a can in every fill-up. Lead substitute is getting pricier and scarcer (more scarce?). Damn the economy! Full speed ahead! (Sorry CB... I did just quote a DamnYankee named Adm. Farragut. )
One can never have too many Pintos!

larjohnson

Dave:  Don't know if you've ever used the stuff, but I run a product called sea foam through every tank of gasoline on my 1971.  I've used this stuff for years on other cars, and I think it's a great product.  The 1971 runs fantastic!!!!!!   I use it every couple of tanks in my 1972.  Anyway, thought you may want to try it.  Have a great day...glad you've got her started and running...Larry :police:
Had a 1971 trunk model in High School, wanted another for old times sake, just purchased another in Washington State, very nice restore project.  I also own an all original 1972 Ford Pinto Runabout, one owner, always garaged, with 33,000 actual miles.  Life is SWEET!!!!

dave1987

Not to worried about the carb jets, I'll replace teh carb in the near future. As long as it can get up and down the drive-way on it's own for now. Makes things a lot easier when I go over to get other things done on her.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

blupinto

Hi Dave! Congratulations on getting her running after all that down-time! I wish I could be there to help out. You really should remove the gas tank and get all that stuff out. Even if she's running on that old gas there's probably rust flakes and varnish in the tank and it could get stuck in the carb jets (the varnish).
One can never have too many Pintos!

dave1987

Forgot to add....

The transmission won't grab until it's revved high, then let to decrease in RPM. It grabs momentarily, then slips, then grabs, then slips, then engages. Can't go to fast, but it does go.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

Yesterday after getting it to run and drive on its own, I decided to rebuild the carburetor. I bought a kit at Schucks, but it was for some other single barrel carburetor, not even close to the Holley 5200-C!! Frustrated, I dove into the container of extra 5200 parts that I had collected for my 78 Sedan. I replaced the accelerator pump diaphragm, choke diaphragm, and the float. Also cleaned off the entire body of the carb, blew compressed air through all of the passages and got a lot of the varnish out of the throttle body. Here are some pictures of it.

D3P3-AA is what the tag reads.

Certain parts of the motor have been cleaned as they were removed.

Last pic is of Brownie on the drive way. She made it up there all on her own! :D
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

dave1987

I didn't really do anything... lol

Turns out the fuel pump actually doesn't need to be replaced!

I guess it just needed to be cranked, and to curse at me a few times! lol It backfired out the carb a dozen times before it would actually start!

To get it to even ATTEMPT to run, I had to pour gas down the carb, that primed it enough to make it pop and kick until it turned over enough to start a combustion cycle. It would run a bit, then die. It did this more times than I cared to count.

I ran a hose from the fuel pump to a gas can, just to give it a taste of fresh gas, instead of the stuff that is in the tank from 20 years ago, then held the pedal all the way down to the floor while cranking it (holding the carb at wide open throttle). It was the only way to get the darn thing to start!

After a few times of doing this, it finally would idle when I slowly let my foot off the accelerator. Normally it would die about 10-20 seconds after it started, but after about two minutes of idling I revved the motor and it came back down to idle without any hesitating or kicking!

I shut the car off and let it sit for a few minutes, then started it again. It would kick then backfire but die again. So I pumped the gas pedal five or six times to prime it with the accelerator pump and it would fire up just fine!

Only problem with it, was that it smoked REALLY badly, I had neighbors giving me funny looks thinking I had started a fire on the side of the house or something! lol Not to mention it's extremely loud sound coming from both the manifold and the mangled muffler! lol

After about 10 minutes of letting it run, I decided to be adventurous and connect the fuel pump to the tank, just to see if it could run off the ancient gas that is in the tank. Sure enough, it does! When starting it with the tank connected to the fuel pump, it had a really ruff time idling, but it could keep going without any help from revving the motor. After revving it a few times to see if it would hesitate, it came back down to a smooth idle. It now starts, idles, revs, and even DRIVES with the 20 year old gas!

Now there are a few NEW problems I have found....

1) Exhaust leak at the manifold (down pipe flange I think)
2) Mangled Muffler
3) Transmission doesn't grab until high RPM
4) Transmission has no fluid in it
5) I REALLY need to get the brakes going, stopping with the e-brake isn't fun!
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

larjohnson

Yay!!!! What a rush to get her running under her own power....Great start for the New Year.  Larry :police:
Had a 1971 trunk model in High School, wanted another for old times sake, just purchased another in Washington State, very nice restore project.  I also own an all original 1972 Ford Pinto Runabout, one owner, always garaged, with 33,000 actual miles.  Life is SWEET!!!!

TIGGER

Congradulations 8)  So what did you do to get it running?
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

dave1987

Thanks man, I know where to get replacement rings for my 78 Sedan now! :D


Well, today is a great day.

I drove the wagon under it's own power for the first time today, wow was it an adrenalin rush! Gotta get the video off my phone somehow...
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

TIGGER

Quote from: dave1987 on December 31, 2009, 06:00:51 PM
Still on a quest for the knob trim rings, haven't found a source for them yet. Every car I find that has similar door lock knobs on it has a trim ring that is part of the door panel.

The early 65-68 Mustangs use the plastic rings that you can buy from any Mustang parts vendor.  They are clear instead of white but they get the job done.  They cost about a buck a piece.
79 4cyl Wagon
73 Turbo HB
78 Cruising Wagon (sold 8/6/11)

dave1987

The lock pull knobs are what I replaced, I just found some nice ones in a 76 Gran Torino wagon this year. Still on a quest for the knob trim rings, haven't found a source for them yet. Every car I find that has similar door lock knobs on it has a trim ring that is part of the door panel.

The lever I found in a 76 Mustang II, also this summer. Stock piling parts has helped a lot thus far!



Tried starting her today. She almost go going but could quite grab.

I got it to run on its own for about four or five seconds with my foot planted to the floor. It sputtered and shook and putt-putt-putted, but couldn't keep going. :'(

This was with the fuel pump inlet with a hose on it, submerged in a gas can of fresh fuel.


Next step tasks.....

1) Pull valve cover (again) and check valve lash
2) Rebuild the carburetor
3) Drop fuel tank and clean it out. Also will install the plastic tank shield while under there.
1978 Ford Pinto Sedan - Family owned since new

Remembering Jeff Fitcher with every drive in my 78 Sedan.

I am a Pinto Surgeon. Fixing problems and giving Pintos a chance to live again is more than a hobby, it's a passion!

r4pinto

Taganov, you can find the lever at a salvage yard, on just about any 1980's Ford truck or full size van. I got my lever from a Ford Econoline van.
Matt Manter
1977 Pinto sedan- Named Harold II after the first Pinto(Harold) owned by my mom. R.I.P mom- 1980 parts provider & money machine for anything that won't fit the 80
1980 Pinto Runabout- work in progress

taganov

Quote from: dave1987 on December 22, 2009, 11:42:48 PM
I got a lot of work done on the wagon today!

1) Replaced turn signal cam, and lever (with the proper full chrome lever)
2) Changed out the headlights
3) Removed remnants of the front grill
4) Replaced bulbs on right side marker lights (now working!)
5) Replaced backup lamp bulbs (left side was missing)
6) Replaced door lock....plastic...chrome things
7) Tested alternator at Schucks (found out it's dead)
8 ) Removed the ghetto trampoline spring alternator tensioning....thing
9) Replaced all the bulbs in the instrument cluster
10) Found out the shifter light is burnt out
11) Got the e-brake to work! Tightened up the bolt at the handle to add tension to the cable. It must be stretched like crazy!
12) Jacked up the car and looked around a bit, found a broken mount for the transmission.

13) Got the car to crank properly!

[snip]

Sorry if this is a noob question ... but ... I have searched the threads to no avail.

Where did you get the cam and chrome turn lever?  I've seen the cam on eBay, but no levers. Mine's missing the knob on the end.  Am I being a pessimist and assuming that my local Ford dealer will just laugh if I ask about '72 Pinto parts?

When you say you replaced the door lock...plastic...chrome things, do you mean the things you pull or the little chrome bushing that sits in the hole in the door?  Again, where'd'ya get 'em?

I'm embarking on a project of my own ... I should take the plunge and start a thread. But we've had oh about 75 inches of snow this winter already and my '72 is sleeping peacefully in a storage unit.